water baptism in Jesus' Name.

[oyster67]

As I said before, sanctification does not always come immediately the moment a person is saved.

My wife's brother is a Christian, yet he keeps getting sent back to jail for whatever reason. Sanctification has not yet set in to his system as a believer.

You were certainly not emanating such tones of mercy, grace, and forbearance when dealing with @Jeanette.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

He mentions baptism in John 3:3-5.

There is such a thing as baptism in water and there is one baptism (Ephesians 4:5).

So, water baptism must be included in that one baptism.

Baptism is threefold:

1) water

2) the Spirit

3) fire.

Once again, show me the word baptism in John 3

if you can;t. Then you must ask yourself why jesus did nto mention an act we must do to be born again when he told us how to be born again

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

How so? I certainly don't want to blaspheme; and do not think that I am doing so.

I am sure the jews did not think they were either. When they said we must also be circumcised if we want to be saved.

 

[heartwashed]

You were certainly not emanating such tones of mercy, grace, and forbearance when dealing with @Jeanette.

I wasn't?

Didn't I tell her that all she needs to do to be saved is to believe and remember the gospel of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; and to identify sin as sin?

That may be the hard truth; but I believe that I said it to her in the spirit of mercy, grace, and forbearance!

 

[heartwashed]

Once again, show me the word baptism in John 3

if you can;t. Then you must ask yourself why jesus did nto mention an act we must do to be born again when he told us how to be born again

Maybe you should ask Jesus to heal you of your physical blindness.

I showed it to you.

 

[heartwashed]

I am sure the jews did not think they were either. When they said we must also be circumcised if we want to be saved.

And I am certain that the Jews really thought that Jesus was blaspheming when He claimed to be the great I AM.

But He wasn't, was He?

And I don't think that the latter thing in your post qualifies as blasphemy. False doctrine, yes. Blasphemy, no.

 

[oyster67]

Our part is simple...
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:13
He takes care of the rest.

 

[heartwashed]

Our part is simple...
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:13
He takes care of the rest.

In the days of the New Testament, calling on the name of the Lord happened at the time of baptism.

That is the historical and cultural context of Romans 10:13.

 

[birdie]

I would like here to make a case for baptism in Jesus' Name.

First I want to show that scripturally baptism has the power to save.

1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In verse 20, it makes it clear that the baptism being spoken of in verse 21 is water baptism.

Now, I know that a case can be made that we are saved by grace through faith; as though this excluded being saved through the grace of baptism. In this post I will not argue that a person can only be saved through baptism in Jesus' Name (except in part); but that baptism in Jesus' Name has the power to save a soul;

And that therefore, if you have any doubts about your salvation, being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins may be something that you might want to try.

For it is written,

Deu 4:29, But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

and,

Jer 29:13, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

It should be clear that there is a conditional promise in holy scripture, that we can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...

The condition being that we repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins:

Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I would say, also, that if baptism does indeed save, that this salvation is in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth:

Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Now, here I will make a case for the exclusivisity in salvation of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

For the promise of Acts 2:38 is a conditional promise.

Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And it is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Consider.

Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If you are not among the called, then you were never predestinated unto salvation; and will not be justified.

Nevertheless, in Mark 16:16, it is those who believe not who will be damned; baptism isn't mentioned (as concerning condemnation for lack of it) except as a guarantee for salvation wherein it says, "whosoever believeth and is baptized shall be saved."

This indicates to me that, whereas in John 3:16, if you believe only, you "should" not perish, that if you believe and are baptized, you have an absolute promise of salvation...the word "shall" is an absolute one...whereas the word "should" is rather iffy.

So, I will not here preach that you must be baptized in Jesus' Name or else you will not be saved (I will allow the word of God to do that preaching for me, in verses already quoted); but I will say that if you want absolute assurance of salvation, the next step is to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

Then, you shall receive remission of sins (1 John 3:9) and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Thanks for your posting and opinion. However, I see the word 'water' as meaning the word of God, the gospel. We read: "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" Ephesians 5:26. It seems to me that this verse is telling us that the word (which is called water) washes us clean from the stain of sin. This is further seen, when Jesus tells the believers: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. " John `5:3. When we read Mark 16:16, which you quoted:
"whosoever believeth and is baptized shall be saved." it means whosoever believes the word of God, the gospel, AND is washed free (clean) from the stain of sin shall be saved. The word baptised means to be washed. Obviously, physical water could not wash us free from the stain and consequences of sin. Rather, the word of God has washed us free from the stain of sin, and we are clean (not physically clean from physical water or a ritual ceremony) but spiritually clean from the word of God.

 

[oyster67]

In the days of the New Testament, calling on the name of the Lord happened at the time of baptism.

That is the historical and cultural context of Romans 10:13.

Calling upon the name of the Lord happens whenever one calls upon the name of the Lord. You can keep all your add-ons and special revelations to yourself and we won't mind a bit.

 

[heartwashed]

Obviously, physical water could not wash us free from the stain and consequences of sin.

The waters of baptism do indeed wash away sins (Acts 22:16).

 

[heartwashed]

Calling upon the name of the Lord happens whenever one calls upon the name of the Lord. You can keep all your add-ons and special revelations to yourself and we won't mind a bit.

What does it mean to call on the name of the Lord?

It means that, realizing that the Father is Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son is Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and that the Holy Spirit is Lord; and that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); and that His name is "Jesus Christ" (compare Matthew 28:19 to Acts 2:38) "of Nazareth" (see Acts 4:10-12),

I will give it to you that if you understand that this is who the Lord is, and if you call on the name of "Jesus Christ of Nazareth" you shall be saved.

For in Christ dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9)...and therefore when I declare the name "Jesus Christ" I am speaking of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

If you deny these things, then you have a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible and are not saved (2 Corinthians 11:3-4).

Because you have not called on the name of the Lord but have called on the name of a different Jesus.

 

[heartwashed]

Calling upon the name of the Lord happens whenever one calls upon the name of the Lord. You can keep all your add-ons and special revelations to yourself and we won't mind a bit.

But I think that you may mind if I divulge them to you...

 

[mailmandan]

Jhn 3:22, After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
Jhn 3:23, And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Jhn 3:24, For John was not yet cast into prison.
Jhn 3:25, Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
Jhn 3:26, And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

Also, consider that "water" in "water and the Spirit" concerning being born again, is very likely referring to baptism; since baptism is in the immediate context here in John 3.

In John 3:5, Jesus said "born of water and the Spirit" and NOT born of baptism and the Spirit. Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

In regards to water baptism in John 3:22, by this time Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. Verse 22 is out of context with verse 5. What is still in context with verse 5 is verses 14-18.

John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. *What happened to baptism?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[mailmandan]

Of course it's a work. It's something that has been commanded to do.

Of course. Water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5) In regards to the baptism of Jesus - Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. (Matthew 3:13-15)

 

[mailmandan]

Peter preached Christ and Him crucified...that is the gospel.

Amen! The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Water baptism is not a part of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 1:17 - For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

 

[mailmandan]

Our part is simple...
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:13
He takes care of the rest.

Calling upon the name of the Lord to be saved = relying on the name of the Lord, trusting in Him for salvation. When one calls upon Jesus to save them, they are trusting in Him to come to their aid. Inherent in their calling upon the name of the Lord is the essential faith in Jesus Christ that He can and will save them.

 

[mailmandan]

Again, no. But I get the feeling you are not exactly open to instruction or correction. But I do wish you the best. Grace and peace.

Sadly, there are many people on various Christian forum sites who are thoroughly indoctrinated and not open to instruction, but with God all things are possible. All we can do for such people is pray and hope that something we share with them will at least plant a seed that one day will be watered and lead them to the truth.

 

[DJT_47]

The only instance in the book of Acts, in which people received the Holy Spirit before baptism was with Cornelius and friends. And I think that I have mentioned in this very thread that God was proving that Gentiles could be saved in that instance. For the church was in a time of transition; and therefore the existing protocols (seen in Acts 2:38) were diverted so that God could make His point that Gentiles can be saved.

Agree. Only 2 times cited in the bible that the Holy Spirit "fell" miraculously without the laying on of the apostle's hands snd that's Acts 2 and 10 and in both cases it was a heavenly sign of validation of what was occurring which resulted in the church being established amongst the Jews 1st and then the Gentiles.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jhn 3:22, After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
Jhn 3:23, And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Jhn 3:24, For John was not yet cast into prison.
Jhn 3:25, Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
Jhn 3:26, And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

Also, consider that "water" in "water and the Spirit" concerning being born again, is very likely referring to baptism; since baptism is in the immediate context here in John 3.

“And there are three that bear witness in earth,

the Spirit,

and the water,

and the blood:

and these three agree in one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a remission of sins is established by three witnesses Jesus word ( spirit ) Jesus blood , and baptism into Jesus name for remission of sins that’s done on water and testifies to the conscience

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


1 The spirit witnesses of remission of sins in the gospel

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

2 The blood witnesses of remission of sins in the gospel

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

3 The water witnesses of remission of sins before , during and after the gospel

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭

and after

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at here are three qualified witnesses that agree upon baptism for remission of sins the spirit of God , the blood of Christ Jesus and the water God ordained for baptism of repentance and remission of sins

God always provides his own wotness of the truth