Water Baptism-What Does God's Word Say?
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Yes shadows as the temporal things seen point to the unseen authority.
I would suggest just like the sabbath... two kinds of baptisms . One as a ceremony like that of when Jesus was baptized introducing the new order of priesthood after that of Melchedik .using water to represent the work of the Holy Spirit as a copy or shadow of the heavenly And the true baptism of the Holy Spirit not seen
Exodus 29:4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.
Water like blood is used as a metaphor through the scriptures to represent the work of the Holy Spirit as he bring the gospel from heaven.
Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
WE are ususually on the same page, but I am not with you on that one.
I' reread it tho, and think it over.
O
obedienttogod
Guest
If you are claiming how we see the Apostles baptizing in the Book of Acts:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
...as following the Command of Jesus in
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
I would agree with you 100%
I do not see by how the Apostles were baptizing in Acts, as denying the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
I see it as the "name" of Jesus is confirming the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
One cannot go wrong following the commands regarding water baptism in the scriptures. I choose obedience to the Word.
We all have freedom of choice. And what you do is between you and God. Just sharing, out of sincere love, what is expressed in the Word.
The Acts 22:16 reference is interesting.
None of the others says baptism alone brings the remission (forgiveness) of sins.
Do you actually believe that to be true? Believer's baptism, or infant baptism too?
Luke 24:47
and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:43-48
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
The evidence is in all of the scriptures noted.
"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Prov 25:2
We are told to study the Word in doing so we find truth. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Tim 2:15
It is clear from scripture that water baptism is a necessary component in God's salvation plan. (Acts 2:38, 8:12, 10:44-48, 19:1-6 and 22:16) There are many foreshadows of water baptism in the Old Testament that point to the New Testament mandate as well.
As far as infant baptism that is not scriptural.
The following is an excerpt from myjewishlearning.com. Take note of the Christian water baptism parallel concerning the Mikveh bath necessary to convert to Judaism:
“The water of the mikveh is designed to ritually cleanse a person from deeds of the past. The convert is considered by Jewish law to be like a newborn child. By spiritually cleansing the convert, the mikveh water prepares him or her to confront God, life, and people with a fresh spirit and new eyes--it washes away the past, leaving only the future. Of course, this does not deny that there were good and beautiful aspects of the past. But, in the strictest religious sense, that past was only prologue to a future life as a Jew.
There is a second layer of meaning to mikveh. It marks the beginning of the ascent to an elevated religious state. This function of mikveh goes beyond the basic purpose of purification. anthropologists refer to this threshold of higher social status as "liminality." The person at this moment of transition is a "liminal" or "threshold" person. The liminal state is common to virtually all persons and societies, ancient and modern, and it marks a move to an altered status or to a life transition.
Entering adulthood from adolescence, for example, requires a tunnel of time, a rite of passage, a liminal state that acknowledges by symbolic acts the stark changes taking place in one's self-identity, behavior, and attitude. In a sense, it is nothing short of the spiritual drama of death and rebirth cast onto the canvas of the convert's soul.
Submerging into waters over his/her head, he/she enters into an environment in which one cannot breathe and cannot live for more than moments. It is the death of all that has gone before. As he/she emerges from the gagging waters into the clear air, he/she begins to breathe anew and live anew--as a baby struggling to be born. If we take this graphic metaphor a step further, we can sense that the mikveh is a spiritual womb. The human fetus is surrounded by water. It does not yet live. The water breaks in a split second and the child emerges into a new world. "As soon as the convert immerses and emerges, he/she is a Jew in every respect" (Yevamot 47b).
The site also includes information about receiving a new name during the Mikveh/Rebirth experience: “The newborn Jew takes on a Hebrew name, but a given name only is not sufficient to locate a person within the Jewish tradition. When Jews sign legal documents or are called up to the Torah, their parents' names are appended to their Hebrew names to locate them in Jewish spiritual space. A convert traditionally adopts Abraham and Sarah as spiritual parents and in legal situations is referred to as "ben Avraham Avinu," "son of our Father, Abraham," or "bat Sarah Imenu," "daughter of our Mother, Sarah."
There are similarities between the Jewish conversion and the Christian spiritual rebirth at water baptism. The main difference is one is a true rebirth the other a symbolic act.
“The water of the mikveh is designed to ritually cleanse a person from deeds of the past. The convert is considered by Jewish law to be like a newborn child. By spiritually cleansing the convert, the mikveh water prepares him or her to confront God, life, and people with a fresh spirit and new eyes--it washes away the past, leaving only the future. Of course, this does not deny that there were good and beautiful aspects of the past. But, in the strictest religious sense, that past was only prologue to a future life as a Jew.
There is a second layer of meaning to mikveh. It marks the beginning of the ascent to an elevated religious state. This function of mikveh goes beyond the basic purpose of purification. anthropologists refer to this threshold of higher social status as "liminality." The person at this moment of transition is a "liminal" or "threshold" person. The liminal state is common to virtually all persons and societies, ancient and modern, and it marks a move to an altered status or to a life transition.
Entering adulthood from adolescence, for example, requires a tunnel of time, a rite of passage, a liminal state that acknowledges by symbolic acts the stark changes taking place in one's self-identity, behavior, and attitude. In a sense, it is nothing short of the spiritual drama of death and rebirth cast onto the canvas of the convert's soul.
Submerging into waters over his/her head, he/she enters into an environment in which one cannot breathe and cannot live for more than moments. It is the death of all that has gone before. As he/she emerges from the gagging waters into the clear air, he/she begins to breathe anew and live anew--as a baby struggling to be born. If we take this graphic metaphor a step further, we can sense that the mikveh is a spiritual womb. The human fetus is surrounded by water. It does not yet live. The water breaks in a split second and the child emerges into a new world. "As soon as the convert immerses and emerges, he/she is a Jew in every respect" (Yevamot 47b).
The site also includes information about receiving a new name during the Mikveh/Rebirth experience: “The newborn Jew takes on a Hebrew name, but a given name only is not sufficient to locate a person within the Jewish tradition. When Jews sign legal documents or are called up to the Torah, their parents' names are appended to their Hebrew names to locate them in Jewish spiritual space. A convert traditionally adopts Abraham and Sarah as spiritual parents and in legal situations is referred to as "ben Avraham Avinu," "son of our Father, Abraham," or "bat Sarah Imenu," "daughter of our Mother, Sarah."
There are similarities between the Jewish conversion and the Christian spiritual rebirth at water baptism. The main difference is one is a true rebirth the other a symbolic act.
Is receiving the name of Jesus during our water baptism really necessary? We will let God’s Word speak for itself. Scriptures show that even though people had been water baptized by John the Baptist they had to be re-baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Acts 19:2-3 Paul says, “... Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, unto John's baptism.”
Due to Paul’s question about how they were water baptized, it is obvious he believed if someone had not received the Holy Ghost it was a good indication that they had not been water baptized correctly. Paul went on to say...“John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 19:4-5. We know that this comment refers to water baptism because the scripture continues: “And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” Acts 19:6
Another scripture confirming the use of a singular name during water baptism is found in 1 Corinthians 1:13-15; “Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. Paul is definitely confirming the use of a name in water baptism. His reprimand shows that those present should understand that the only name to be used during their water baptism is Jesus. For Jesus was the one who was crucified to save their souls.
Oh, what revival this world would see if people would just be obedient to the Word. Scriptures mean what they say. There is no need to pick them apart, just do what they command. Consider what is expressed in 1 Samuel 15:22 “...Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.”
The definition of sacrifice: “a giving up of something valuable or important for somebody or something else considered to be of more value or importance.” We do make a sacrifice of our own wants and desires when we come to know the Lord. The reward of a life with Jesus is far more valuable than our past life. However our willingness to sacrifice is of less, and in some cases, of no value to God if we refuse to be obedient to all of His Word.
In Acts 19:2-3 Paul says, “... Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, unto John's baptism.”
Due to Paul’s question about how they were water baptized, it is obvious he believed if someone had not received the Holy Ghost it was a good indication that they had not been water baptized correctly. Paul went on to say...“John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 19:4-5. We know that this comment refers to water baptism because the scripture continues: “And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” Acts 19:6
Another scripture confirming the use of a singular name during water baptism is found in 1 Corinthians 1:13-15; “Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. Paul is definitely confirming the use of a name in water baptism. His reprimand shows that those present should understand that the only name to be used during their water baptism is Jesus. For Jesus was the one who was crucified to save their souls.
Oh, what revival this world would see if people would just be obedient to the Word. Scriptures mean what they say. There is no need to pick them apart, just do what they command. Consider what is expressed in 1 Samuel 15:22 “...Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.”
The definition of sacrifice: “a giving up of something valuable or important for somebody or something else considered to be of more value or importance.” We do make a sacrifice of our own wants and desires when we come to know the Lord. The reward of a life with Jesus is far more valuable than our past life. However our willingness to sacrifice is of less, and in some cases, of no value to God if we refuse to be obedient to all of His Word.
That's not what I see there at all.
What evidence indicted to the Apostle that they had not been "baptized correctly"?
What evidence (or lack) indicted to the Apostle that they had not been baptized in the Holy Spirit?
They weren't manifesting the Holy Spirit. This problem was corrected with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:6-7
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
None of this undoes the command of Jesus, the name you are claiming is the single name.
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Obedient "to all of His Word"?
Really? Like that is even possible.
Jesus gave us a to-do list. How are you doing on your list?
And the "greater things"? How is that going?
Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
O
obedienttogod
Guest
I'm copy/pasting my original response to this quote:
If you are claiming how we see the Apostles baptizing in the Book of Acts:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
...as following the Command of Jesus in
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
I would agree with you 100%
I do not see by how the Apostles were baptizing in Acts, as denying the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
I see it as the "name" of Jesus is confirming the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
We have had several posts back and forth over a week or so. (if I recall correctly)
Can you summarize what baptism means to you?
O
obedienttogod
Guest
Since typically one is baptized before the congregation, it's an outward showing of your faith and belief in God. It's another way of showing that you are not denying God, but that you are confirming you are one of His!
That's good.
Did you follow what I was saying about the baptism with the Holy Spirit?
Especially as it pertains to the passage you cited in Acts chapter nineteen.
The Holy Spirit came as a result of the Apostle laying his hands on them.
O
obedienttogod
Guest
I did and feel this is why preachers, evangelists, etc lay hands on those they pray for.
Yes, and also this verse in James. (pray over them)
James 5:14
Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord.
Paul asked if they had received the Holy Ghost since believing in Jesus.
They had only submitted to water baptism by John the Baptist.
Paul then told them they needed to be water baptized in Jesus name.
He then laid hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost.