We are not saved by Grace/Faith alone, and I can prove it.

[DavidLOVESsnow]

mk 16 16 - 18 is questionable, it is not even included in the two oldest manuscripts we have. It also says they will drink poison and not die, and be bitten by snakes and not die, yet MANY have died doing these very things. if it smells like a rat it is a rat. ignore it.



what? dude, your not making any sense.. They did not have faith in christ, their faith was in THEIR WORKS, or THEMSELVES, a person who trust christ will trust Christ, NOT HIMSELF.



No, they claimed to do those things, Jesus never told them they did. many people claim things which are not real. Satanists claim to cast out demons and prophesy, are they saved?

He said HE NEVER KNEW THEM. Your telling me Jesus lied, and he did know them?? (they were at one time saved and adopted as his children) why would God lie?

I find it interesting that you denounce something in the Bible when I quoted psalms earlier talking about how God promised to preserve his word -_-.

Also, thats an interesting interpretation you have. It is your perspective, but it isnt taking it word by word. You must read verse 45. He SPECIFICALLY says "...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not
to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." Is he talking about works specifically? Yes. Does he send them to hell? Yes.

It is THAT SIMPLE. If you do not understand that, then re-read the quote Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus says himself because they did not do works to him that he is not allowing them into Heaven. I am not twisting anything, it SAYS IT IN THE BIBLE ON VERSE 45.

Do I need any more evidence? It says it itself.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

I find it interesting that you denounce something in the Bible when I quoted psalms earlier talking about how God promised to preserve his word -_-.

Also, thats an interesting interpretation you have. It is your perspective, but it isnt taking it word by word. You must read verse 45. He SPECIFICALLY says "...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not
to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." Is he talking about works specifically? Yes. Does he send them to hell? Yes.

It is THAT SIMPLE. If you do not understand that, then re-read the quote Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus says himself because they did not do works to him that he is not allowing them into Heaven. I am not twisting anything, it SAYS IT IN THE BIBLE ON VERSE 45.

Do I need any more evidence? It says it itself.

If you keep arguing this, Im going to just post the entire quote, highlight it. Highlight Mark 16:16-18, and then go to school. I dont need to say anything, the Bible says it all.

 

[JGIG]

Faith is trusting in Jesus how? What definition of faith is that... can you show me the Bible quote please? Because the dictionary definition of faith, and the common understanding, is that faith is a belief in something. Some people have faith in buddah, or some other religion but we have faith in Jesus because we know he is real. Therefore, satanist do have faith in Jesus.

demons do not have faith in Jesus because they can be 100% sure he exists because they see him. I am 100% sure he exists but because I dont see him physically my assumptions are still relied on faith that he exists. Understand now?

Some will make a charge of ’easy believism’ against those who preach the Gospel of Grace, using this single verse from Scripture:

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that — and shudder.​

They then try to equate that belief of demons with faith in Christ. Demons do understand – they know Who Jesus is – they believe that fact – but they don’t put their faith in His Work. It is not the same thing at all. The unspoken accusation here, whether intended or not, is that belief by humans, without the added performance of Law, is no better than the belief of demons. What a motivator, eh?!

Broken people who have been saved by Grace through Faith, in the midst of healing and restoring by the Spirit of God, don’t believe like the demons believe. They are placing their faith and trust in the God Who came in the flesh to die a horrible death to satisfy the wrath that should have come on them and are instead receiving complete forgiveness that He freely gives, enabling Him to impute to them the Righteousness of Christ, resulting in New Life – the indwelling of the Holy Spirit – making them a New Creation in Christ (Romans 5 and 2 Corinthians 5:16-21)!


No, the belief that demons exercise is something quite different indeed.


-JGIG

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Some will make a charge of ’easy believism’ against those who preach the Gospel of Grace, using this single verse from Scripture:

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that — and shudder.​

They then try to equate that belief of demons with faith in Christ. Demons do understand – they know Who Jesus is – they believe that fact – but they don’t put their faith in His Work. It is not the same thing at all. The unspoken accusation here, whether intended or not, is that belief by humans, without the added performance of Law, is no better than the belief of demons. What a motivator, eh?!

Broken people who have been saved by Grace through Faith, in the midst of healing and restoring by the Spirit of God, don’t believe like the demons believe. They are placing their faith and trust in the God Who came in the flesh to die a horrible death to satisfy the wrath that should have come on them and are instead receiving complete forgiveness that He freely gives, enabling Him to impute to them the Righteousness of Christ, resulting in New Life – the indwelling of the Holy Spirit – making them a New Creation in Christ (Romans 5 and 2 Corinthians 5:16-21)!


No, the belief that demons exercise is something quite different indeed.


-JGIG

I dont have time to debate anymore. Just read:

[h=3]Matthew 25:31-46[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I find it interesting that you denounce something in the Bible when I quoted psalms earlier talking about how God promised to preserve his word -_-.

He did preserve his word. He gave us proofs so when MEN twist and distort and mistranslate his word. We can find it out.

Like the example I used.

A

lso, thats an interesting interpretation you have. It is your perspective, but it isnt taking it word by word. You must read verse 45. He SPECIFICALLY says "...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not
to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." Is he talking about works specifically? Yes. Does he send them to hell? Yes.

There you go twisting again.

People who have faith will do those things. John says they will because christ is in them. they do it because they truely have repented. It is those who have mere belief which do not do those things. It is all a game to them.

It is THAT SIMPLE. If you do not understand that, then re-read the quote Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus says himself because they did not do works to him that he is not allowing them into Heaven. I am not twisting anything, it SAYS IT IN THE BIBLE ON VERSE 45.

Do I need any more evidence? It says it itself.

Yeah it does say it.

I NEVER KNEW YOU.

Funny how you want to keep going to other things. but you completly ignore these three very important words. You can not ignore them, they are there. You want to ignore or twist them, that is on you my friend.

You cannot get past that my friend.

And do not go around telling people how uneducated they are. I have studied Gods word longer than you have been alive. I also believed as you did once, because I had a TRUST in th emen who were teaching me, that they would get it right.

I suggest you learn to study more. And stop bbeing so arrogant at such a young age. You remind me alot of myself when I was your age. and let me tell ys something buddy. There is no HOPE in where you are at right now.

 

[tarzan]

There is nothing wrong with Mark 16. Paul was bitten by a poisonous serpent and was not poisoned. The tribes people thought he was a god and worshiped him because of it. Jesus did not say that those signs were the only signs. He gave us some of the signs of the believer there. More yet did He reveal when He said to us that some who do those things will not be saved. Where is understanding? Even human laws are read more carefully than these. You find precepts scattered among our codes to determine the outcome of our cases and consider the investigation necessary, but when it comes to salvation you sit upon a couple of lines out of the entire book? Then so will I. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. As I said, if you are right, you are a witness against yourself, for herein you are judging the poor and the widow. Do you not know to whom you are speaking? You condemn those you claim to work for on their behalf! Go do your work.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

He did preserve his word. He gave us proofs so when MEN twist and distort and mistranslate his word. We can find it out.

Like the example I used.

A

There you go twisting again.

People who have faith will do those things. John says they will because christ is in them. they do it because they truely have repented. It is those who have mere belief which do not do those things. It is all a game to them.



Yeah it does say it.

I NEVER KNEW YOU.

Funny how you want to keep going to other things. but you completly ignore these three very important words. You can not ignore them, they are there. You want to ignore or twist them, that is on you my friend.

You cannot get past that my friend.

And do not go around telling people how uneducated they are. I have studied Gods word longer than you have been alive. I also believed as you did once, because I had a TRUST in th emen who were teaching me, that they would get it right.

I suggest you learn to study more. And stop bbeing so arrogant at such a young age. You remind me alot of myself when I was your age. and let me tell ys something buddy. There is no HOPE in where you are at right now.

Read. This will make it useless to argue. You cant argue the Bible. It clearly states works.

Matthew 25:31-46

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[SarahM777]

I dont have time to debate anymore. Just read:

Matthew 25:31-46

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

UMM You are aware that this should be the OUTCOME of faith that is alive and well. It is the EVIDENCE of faith. Remember Jesus said they will know you are my disciples by what? The love you have one for another. Those are all acts of love. Love is the fulfillment of the law. It's NOT rocket science.

 

[Simona25]

[SUP]"6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Galatians 5,6).

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

UMM You are aware that this should be the OUTCOME of faith that is alive and well. It is the EVIDENCE of faith. Remember Jesus said they will know you are my disciples by what? The love you have one for another. Those are all acts of love. Love is the fulfillment of the law. It's NOT rocket science.

Im not diagreeing with you at all. I agree 100%. My problem is that with the doctrine of grace/faith alone, it is sometimes spun in a way to make it a catalyst to sin, and makes works seem irrelivant when that quote makes it obvious that people who believe in God, and listen to his word, will treat thy neighbour as thyself etc. etc. and do good deeds to people. That is my main point.

I am just debunking the fact that you cant just believe in God and Jesus and do nothing and expect to go to Heaven.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Well of course a living and working faith is what saves you. If what you are saying is that our faith should be an obedient and growing faith then I don't think you are disagreeing with most of us on here. We thought, or at least I did, that you were saying that works save you. Yes faith alone without works is dead, because it wasn't genuine.

 

[JGIG]

I dont have time to debate anymore. Just read:

Matthew 25:31-46

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Righteousness is a free gift from God in Christ. See Romans 5 and 2 Corinthians 5. Also see Romans 10:1-4 to contrast man's righteousness with God's righteousness and which one results in Eternal Life. Then go back to Mt. 25:46b.

-JGIG

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Righteousness is a free gift from God in Christ. See Romans 5 and 2 Corinthians 5. Also see Romans 10:1-4 to contrast man's righteousness with God's righteousness and which one results in Eternal Life. Then go back to Mt. 25:46b.

-JGIG

I think you misunderstand the point of this thread. Its to point out that without works you wont get into Heaven even if you believe in God and Jesus, dont break commandments etc. I should've been more careful with wording etc. etc. but now im just exhausted and need to finish my assignment. Matthew 25:31-46 clearly proves works are necessary, I don't need to see anything else.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is nothing wrong with Mark 16. Paul was bitten by a poisonous serpent and was not poisoned. The tribes people thought he was a god and worshiped him because of it. Jesus did not say that those signs were the only signs. He gave us some of the signs of the believer there. More yet did He reveal when He said to us that some who do those things will not be saved.

Again, Where do you get your info?

He said AND THIS WILL BE THE SIGN OF THEM. (Including ALL OF THEM) He did not say MIGHT BE, or SOME OF THEM. You see, the people who added this to the word did not even get this right to support their view. How ironic would you not say? Another proof Man write it. NOT GOD

next argument?

Where is understanding? Even human laws are read more carefully than these. You find precepts scattered among our codes to determine the outcome of our cases and consider the investigation necessary, but when it comes to salvation you sit upon a couple of lines out of the entire book? Then so will I. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. As I said, if you are right, you are a witness against yourself, for herein you are judging the poor and the widow. Do you not know to whom you are speaking? You condemn those you claim to work for on their behalf! Go do your work.

lol. As Jesus said in that passage,

SHALL HAVE eternal life. It is already in their possetion. He did not say might have.

As for work. I am fighting people working to earn a grave gift (a false gospel) not working the work God created us to do (eph 2: 10)

I am a new creature, with all; my brothers and sisters in Christ, WE HAVE eternal life, and the full assurance (faith) in the Hope of Gods promise. And will do the works God created us to do.. God said it.

As he said, He WILL CONTINUE the work he started in us the day he adopted us into his family. Some people deny he will complete it. and they must help him. Thats on them. But I am not going to sit here while people give a Gospel of no hope at all, and watch people be led to hell, when God gave us all the freedom and knowledge to speak up!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Righteousness is a free gift from God in Christ. See Romans 5 and 2 Corinthians 5. Also see Romans 10:1-4 to contrast man's righteousness with God's righteousness and which one results in Eternal Life. Then go back to Mt. 25:46b.

-JGIG

amen sis.

He wants to turn his filthy rags to God and hope God will accept them to allow them in heaven..

All we can do is wish them luck..

God JUSTIFIED ME (declared me righteous, or innocent) By his blood. Not by my work.

 

[BenFTW]

I PM'd you this answer(yesterday) and I will post it here for others to benefit. Also, feel free to rebuttal it if you'd like.

Cited from a website: All Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. This is what is referred to in 2 Timothy 2:15 as “rightly dividing the word of truth.” Scripture does not contradict Scripture, and the Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that salvation is by faith through the grace and mercy of God and not by good works (see John 1:12; Acts 15:11; Romans 3:22-24; Romans 4:4-8; Romans 7:24-25;Romans 8:12; Galatians 3:6-9; and Ephesians 2:8-10; to mention a few).

The point isn't that works save, but that the sheep of the Shepherd produce works, not for salvation but as a result of salvation. They are not works of the flesh, for these are not accepted by God. But of the Spirit, of the fruits of the Spirit (works happen). So, the question is, are you a sheep (of the Shepherd) or are you a goat (who is condemned and lost)? Its a matter of, are you a believer in Christ or are you a reject-er of Jesus Christ?

Notice the last verse. "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Who are the righteous? We are. "I am the righteousness of God, in Jesus Christ." Not of works, but in the acceptance of Jesus Christ, as my Lord and Savior, and what He has done on the cross on my behalf.

You see, this isn't a matter of works, as the works are a fruit of salvation and not the root of it. One does not clean oneself before taking a bath. We come to Jesus "dirty" and His blood cleanses us from all sin. Our righteousness is considered as "filthy rags" to God. It is when we walk in what He has prepared beforehand that such works are accepted. Hence, why when what we do is tested in the end by fire, it tests different substances which represent our own works and those we walked in which were prepared beforehand (which are not consumed).

1 Corinthians 3:12-15

King James Version (KJV)

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[JGIG]

UMM You are aware that this should be the OUTCOME of faith that is alive and well. It is the EVIDENCE of faith. Remember Jesus said they will know you are my disciples by what? The love you have one for another. Those are all acts of love. Love is the fulfillment of the law. It's NOT rocket science.

Close!

FRUIT is the evidence of Faith - faith resulting in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (salvation, the restoration of Life lost at the Fall). What is that Fruit? Love:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (from Gal. 5)​

Joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control are subsets of love. Those attributes will work themselves out in service to others - service such as described by Christ in Matt. 25, according to one's calling.

But the point I'm trying to make is that it's not WORKS, nut it's FRUIT that is the evidence of faith. That eventually comes out in works through loving others. Good fruit takes time. The Vine produces the Fruit; we bear it. Read more here: Grace or Law? How Then, Shall We Live?

-JGIG

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Again, Where do you get your info?

He said AND THIS WILL BE THE SIGN OF THEM. (Including ALL OF THEM) He did not say MIGHT BE, or SOME OF THEM. You see, the people who added this to the word did not even get this right to support their view. How ironic would you not say? Another proof Man write it. NOT GOD

next argument?



lol. As Jesus said in that passage,

SHALL HAVE eternal life. It is already in their possetion. He did not say might have.

As for work. I am fighting people working to earn a grave gift (a false gospel) not working the work God created us to do (eph 2: 10)

I am a new creature, with all; my brothers and sisters in Christ, WE HAVE eternal life, and the full assurance (faith) in the Hope of Gods promise. And will do the works God created us to do.. God said it.

As he said, He WILL CONTINUE the work he started in us the day he adopted us into his family. Some people deny he will complete it. and they must help him. Thats on them. But I am not going to sit here while people give a Gospel of no hope at all, and watch people be led to hell, when God gave us all the freedom and knowledge to speak up!

Listen. People have provided many Bible quotes. Just read them. I appreciate your concern, your dedication to this issue, and your compassion to your fellow brothers and sisters. However, to avoid confusion, just read the Bible verses that people have supplied.

Also, don't play the "man wrote the Bible" card. You can use it to say anything is an error. Thats like me saying there wasn't an Eve because who knows where the true manuscripts are for Adam there could just be two guys etc. etc. God promised to preserve his world in Psalms (I posted the quote in my op), if God said hes going to preserve it, he will.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

I PM'd you this answer(yesterday) and I will post it here for others to benefit. Also, feel free to rebuttal it if you'd like.

Cited from a website: All Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. This is what is referred to in 2 Timothy 2:15 as “rightly dividing the word of truth.” Scripture does not contradict Scripture, and the Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that salvation is by faith through the grace and mercy of God and not by good works (see John 1:12; Acts 15:11; Romans 3:22-24; Romans 4:4-8; Romans 7:24-25;Romans 8:12; Galatians 3:6-9; and Ephesians 2:8-10; to mention a few).

The point isn't that works save, but that the sheep of the Shepherd produce works, not for salvation but as a result of salvation. They are not works of the flesh, for these are not accepted by God. But of the Spirit, of the fruits of the Spirit (works happen). So, the question is, are you a sheep (of the Shepherd) or are you a goat (who is condemned and lost)? Its a matter of, are you a believer in Christ or are you a reject-er of Jesus Christ?

Notice the last verse. "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Who are the righteous? We are. "I am the righteousness of God, in Jesus Christ." Not of works, but in the acceptance of Jesus Christ, as my Lord and Savior, and what He has done on the cross on my behalf.

You see, this isn't a matter of works, as the works are a fruit of salvation and not the root of it. One does not clean oneself before taking a bath. We come to Jesus "dirty" and His blood cleanses us from all sin. Our righteousness is considered as "filthy rags" to God. It is when we walk in what He has prepared beforehand that such works are accepted. Hence, why when what we do is tested in the end by fire, it tests different substances which represent our own works and those we walked in which were prepared beforehand (which are not consumed).

1 Corinthians 3:12-15

King James Version (KJV)

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I'm going to apologize because I read this wrong (I haven't slept so can I get some slack) because I agree with the last paragraph. Im not going to read it all im too tired, but I agree with your last paragraph.

Works are a necessity, So is God's grace and Jesus' sacrafice. Without everything together we are doomed. With them all together we are saved. You cant have Faith in God and not follow his commandments, or follow his commandments but not have faith in him, etc. etc.

If im not making sense atm dont worry, im just exhausted. I had fight in me earlier, but now im just tired. Too much work in my life, going to try and talk to my professors today.

But basically, you agree that works are needed right? If we agree on that, then we're all good.

 

[BenFTW]

I'm going to apologize because I read this wrong (I haven't slept so can I get some slack) because I agree with the last paragraph. Im not going to read it all im too tired, but I agree with your last paragraph.

Works are a necessity, So is God's grace and Jesus' sacrafice. Without everything together we are doomed. With them all together we are saved. You cant have Faith in God and not follow his commandments, or follow his commandments but not have faith in him, etc. etc.

If im not making sense atm dont worry, im just exhausted. I had fight in me earlier, but now im just tired. Too much work in my life, going to try and talk to my professors today.

But basically, you agree that works are needed right? If we agree on that, then we're all good.

What do you say of the thief on the cross? Jesus told him that he'd meet Him in paradise and yet the man only believed, and did no works. You might say, that the thief's case was special or unique. However, let me point you to a verse.

John 6:28-29

King James Version (KJV)

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.