We know about throwing out law, does the law have anything good about it??

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That isn't both sides of our mouth. It is God's plan of redemption that God had from the beginning. Christ sacrificed to save us from sin, and Christ is God. That sacrifice was from the beginning, it was completed in our kind of time. 4,000 years went by with the sacrificial system a shadow of what Christ did in our time. We are saved by the blood. We use Christ's blood, the actual blood. For 4,000 years the blood of animals was used to represent that blood, it needed to be completed by Christ. It would be foolish and wrong to use the blood of animals for Christ's blood. The fact that Christ's blood saves us stays the same for those 4,000 years, and the 2,000 years since Christ.

Yes, but you talk out of both sides of your mouth. You say GOD never changes, and then say he no longer recognizes animal sacrifices.

 

[Hizikyah]

Yes, but you talk out of both sides of your mouth. You say GOD never changes, but now he no longer recognizes animal sacrifices.

You clearly dont understand Yahweh, or maybe you play ignorant to justify your false message?

Psalm 40:6-8, "Sacrifice and offerings You have not desired; My ears You have opened to this! Burnt offerings and sin offerings You do not require! Then I said: Behold, I come to You, Great Yahweh! In the volume of the Book it is written of Me: I delight to do Your will, O My Father, and Your Law is within My heart."

Hebrews 10:4-7, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: Sacrifice and offering You did not want, but a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin, You had no pleasure. Then I said: Behold, I have come (in the volume of the Book it is written of Me) to do Your will, O Yahweh."

 

[GISMYS]

YES!!! BELIEVERS LIVE IN A NEW "COVENANT" AFTER JESUS PAID OUR SIN DEBT BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN GOD WHAS CHANGED!!! THINK!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You clearly dont understand Yahweh, or maybe you play ignorant to justify your false message?

Psalm 40:6-8, "Sacrifice and offerings You have not desired; My ears You have opened to this! Burnt offerings and sin offerings You do not require! Then I said: Behold, I come to You, Great Yahweh! In the volume of the Book it is written of Me: I delight to do Your will, O My Father, and Your Law is within My heart."

Hebrews 10:4-7, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: Sacrifice and offering You did not want, but a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin, You had no pleasure. Then I said: Behold, I have come (in the volume of the Book it is written of Me) to do Your will, O Yahweh."

I'm just pointing out the contradiction in the teaching that says since GOD never changes, his law can't change, yet also says that the sacrificial laws under the Levitical priesthood no longer apply.

 

[Isdaniel]

YES!!! BELIEVERS LIVE IN A NEW "COVENANT" AFTER JESUS PAID OUR SIN DEBT BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN GOD WHAS CHANGED!!! THINK!

Job 22:22Receive, I pray thee, the law from his mouth, and lay up his words in thine heart.

 

[Isdaniel]

I'm just pointing out the contradiction in the teaching that says since GOD never changes, his law can't change, yet also says that the sacrificial laws under the Levitical priesthood no longer apply.

Psalm 37:31The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

 

[reject-tech]

It's all a lot more simple than we make it. But I'll join in and get complicated for a minute.

Point 1. The ten commandments are pretty obvious, and they are written in stone, they mean exactly what they say when read without any special interpretation, and they witness themselves as pretty obvious things that when you love God and other people and don't want to cause harm, you do obey them without as much thought as we pretend is necessary. You can take them as far as you want beyond the most simple interpretation if you like. You have the option to make them as strict as you please, if you can and desire.

Point 2. All the other laws that are not the ten commandments, 600 or so they say, are not written in stone, and are written in a heavenly language of symbolism. They are the details that one can use in the above example of taking the ten commandments to the next level. A lot of people keep them without knowing, because they are super conscious about loving God and others. If you don't know how to interpret them, it isn't hurting you as long as you are keeping the basic 10 commandments. I certainly have not taken the time to search out the meaning of all of them, but the ones that I have, have always been a witness in hindsight, or a witness during the process of growth. They are for sanctification, that is to say, when the meaning of one becomes clear, it is to prove to you that you have done well, because you need that grace directly from the Father.

Point 3. Jesus was the law made flesh, that is, He represented a human that kept the law perfectly. It is natural to assume that this means the 10 commandments as a minimum, but why wouldn't we be inclined to believe He nailed every word of it? He understood that He would be making things more complicated, and cause people to focus on paper instead of brotherly love, if He started to interpret every single one, plus you can't do that to every person you meet, so He gave the synopsis of it - "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand"
If you repent, you can enter the kingdom and begin to see the smaller detail laws being revealed to you, in hindsight, to witness that you have in fact already turned away from sins, maybe more than was expected.

For example, if you do not understand the spiritual meaning of "killing" an "ox" that "gores" someone, then you are at no loss, unless you are trying to crack a code that cannot be cracked. It is revealed, and only to a person that is keeping it.
Even if someone who understands it tells you, you will not believe it until God sticks it into your head personally, unless you are already keeping it when they tell you. And that particular law means (no language coincidence here, it is by design for modern English) "stop being a bully"
It never meant to focus on killing your literal ox because it gored, that's common sense for any person who has ever owned cattle. It meant to use the example of what you do out of common sense when your ox gores, to interpret the spiritual meaning of how you are to behave yourself.

Jesus's actions, motives, and teachings are all the exact same things that Moses put out.
And if you do the things Jesus recommended, it causes you to keep the ten commandments without having to know, remember or count them. And if you go beyond belief and follow, it will cause you to keep the rest of those mysterious laws, without having to know, remember, or count them.

It is all based on LOVE, not INTELLECT.
HOPE for salvation from causing and receiving heartbreak, not FEAR of punishment.
And that's why so many people argue about the "law"

Love'm all.
Please.

 

[Hizikyah]

I'm just pointing out the contradiction in the teaching that says since GOD never changes, his law can't change, yet also says that the sacrificial laws under the Levitical priesthood no longer apply.

Dont you see how by the mouth of Yahweh Himself He never wanted animal, animal was just a pretext of the real Passover Lamb?

You know Scriptures enough to know this? How do you see this as a contradiction? Maybe I am missing something in your view? IDK.

 

[Isdaniel]

For all sabbthkeepers keep up the good fight take care sleep tight

Isaiah 51:7Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

 

[RedTent]

Yes, but you talk out of both sides of your mouth. You say GOD never changes, and then say he no longer recognizes animal sacrifices.

That isn't God changing, it is the same "Christ saves". It is by blood.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That isn't God changing, it is the same "Christ saves". It is by blood.

What kind of meaningless statement is that? The law says that animal sacrifices must be offered for sins. Law keepers say that since GOD never changes, his law never changes. Yet they also say that GOD changed his sacrificial law and no longer accepts animal sacrifices. Wazzup wit dat?

 

[Hizikyah]

Sacrificial Law was made and always intended for the Real Passover Lamb, Yahshua, the animal sacrifices were simply a temporary stand in for the true, same as the Levitical priesthood. No change in the Law, but as the writer of Hebrews states it, "a transfer."

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Sacrificial Law was made and always intended for the Real Passover Lamb, Yahshua, the animal sacrifices were simply a temporary stand in for the true, same as the Levitical priesthood.

Just as all of the law was a temporary stand in for the true. No change in the Law, but as the writer of Hebrews states it, "a transfer" from the pattern to the truth, i.e., Christ.

 

[Hizikyah]

Just as all of the law was a temporary stand in for the true. No change in the Law, but as the writer of Hebrews states it, "a transfer" from the pattern to the truth, i.e., Christ.

So.....

Do not steal is now transferred to you can steal but Messiah wont?

I dont get it?

PS Hebrews is clear in its scope.

 

[reject-tech]

Heads up everyone -

"Turn the other cheek"
is the same as
"Sacrifice the ram"

I will gladly confess that I have not burnt the ram.
But I have killed it, and I am in the process of dividing it's pieces.
When Jesus has finished saving me from malicious rebuttal, it will have been burnt.

Not many rams are sacrificed on this website, but I do see a few now and then.

 

[Hizikyah]

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Nope, same Law, its just that a perfect High Priest, Yahshua mediates it and not the Levitical priesthoood,

 

[Rockbysea]

Are you saying that God butchered the old national contract when he wrote scripture? How have I butchered?

You did. You butchered the old national contract because you don’t observe all of it. You just observe what’s convenient to yourself and acceptable to modern society… as if God changes with the times. And all of you law keeper cults do the same. And as a result you each have your own shaky made up make-believe contracts because God has never ratified them. A contract requires agreement from both parties but God never gave you the permission to change His national contract nor did He ratify it therefore your contracts are just make-believe (void).

These law keeper cults have their own make-believe law because each one of them has created their own shifty make believe contract by cutting out massive portions of the original national contract to suit their own agenda. And where was God when they did this butchering of His national covenant? Well you see they have this made up Jesus/Yahshua that comes in handy to give them the permission to butcher the old national contract and from it make up new ones as they see fit.

Thus these law keeper cults don’t even have similar make-believe contracts amongst themselves: Some have a make-believe contract that only has the Sabbath and others have a make-believe contract for more than one Sabbath and others have a make-believe contract to include the feast days and others have a make-believe contracts to include/exclude the Passover etc…and they continuously dispute condemning each other to the death over what’s mandatory.

If anybody thinks all those law keeper cults out there are in unity think again. Oh yes they may appear in unity on Internet discussion boards to achieve their agenda which is to contribute their side to sustain polarization but if you ever decide to join one of those law keeper cults out in the real world you’ll be surprised to see a bunch of big time lawbreakers … But again… that’s what their made up Jesus/Yahshua is for… to go with their made up shaky make-believe contracts. Their made up Jesus/Yahshua is not only there to give all the various law keeping cults the permission to butcher the old national contract however they see fit…. but their made up Jesus/Yahshua is also there so they can break their made up contracts all they want and still be forgiven because their made up Jesus/Yahshua has conveniently replaced all the animal sacrifices.

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galatians 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."
8451. torah
torah: direction, instruction, law - Original Word: תּוֹרָה - Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah - Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw') - Short Definition: law

 

[Hizikyah]

SNIP
but their made up Jesus/Yahshua is also there so they can break their made up contracts all they want and still be forgiven because their made up Jesus/Yahshua has conveniently replaced all the animal sacrifices.

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Those who subject themselves to Yahweh's Law are in right company.

Those who do not subject themselves to Yahweh's Law are in evil company.

2 Thessaloninas 2:3-8, "Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day will not come, unless there comes a falling away first, and that servant of sin is revealed: the son of perdition, Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called gods or that is worshiped; so that he, as the Almighty, sits in the temple of Yahweh, showing himself that he is the Mighty One Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining him now, so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

 

[RedTent]

You did. You butchered the old national contract because you don’t observe all of it. You just observe what’s convenient to yourself and acceptable to modern society… as if God changes with the times. And all of you law keeper cults do the same. And as a result you each have your own shaky made up make-believe contracts because God has never ratified them. A contract requires agreement from both parties but God never gave you the permission to change His national contract nor did He ratify it therefore your contracts are just make-believe (void).

These law keeper cults have their own make-believe law because each one of them has created their own shifty make believe contract by cutting out massive portions of the original national contract to suit their own agenda. And where was God when they did this butchering of His national covenant? Well you see they have this made up Jesus/Yahshua that comes in handy to give them the permission to butcher the old national contract and from it make up new ones as they see fit.

Thus these law keeper cults don’t even have similar make-believe contracts amongst themselves: Some have a make-believe contract that only has the Sabbath and others have a make-believe contract for more than one Sabbath and others have a make-believe contract to include the feast days and others have a make-believe contracts to include/exclude the Passover etc…and they continuously dispute condemning each other to the death over what’s mandatory.

If anybody thinks all those law keeper cults out there are in unity think again. Oh yes they may appear in unity on Internet discussion boards to achieve their agenda which is to contribute their side to sustain polarization but if you ever decide to join one of those law keeper cults out in the real world you’ll be surprised to see a bunch of big time lawbreakers … But again… that’s what their made up Jesus/Yahshua is for… to go with their made up shaky make-believe contracts. Their made up Jesus/Yahshua is not only there to give all the various law keeping cults the permission to butcher the old national contract however they see fit…. but their made up Jesus/Yahshua is also there so they can break their made up contracts all they want and still be forgiven because their made up Jesus/Yahshua has conveniently replaced all the animal sacrifices.

This is amazing! This is a Christian site, not a site for throwing insults to others. People are here to discuss scripture.