Westboro Baptist- Christian or not?

[JimJimmers]

1984! I always thought of the great veiled insults that would go along with that. "Wow Felix, you seem rather strong today! Have you been working out?"

 

[Shyness]

To tell you the truth, A real Christian would not be happy and jump for joy when people suffer and die. One cannot love God if they do not love one another.

 

[tribesman]

To tell you the truth, A real Christian would not be happy and jump for joy when people suffer and die. One cannot love God if they do not love one another.

It is written:

Rev.18

[4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
[5] For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
[6] Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
[7] How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
[8] Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
[9] And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
[10] Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
[13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
[14] And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
[15] The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
[16] And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
[17] For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
[18] And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
[19] And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
[20] Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

 

[kayem77]

Greater is mercy than justice...

 

[tribesman]

Greater is mercy than justice...

For those who have showed mercy, yes.

Matt.5

[7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Jam.2

[13] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Amen.

 

[JimJimmers]

Once we are in Heaven, and know as we are known, we will rejoice at the defeat of evil. Here on earth, we don't yet know the full story. Paul didn't show Stephen any mercy, and he came around eventually.

 

[kayem77]

We ourselves don't deserve mercy, we deserve justice, that is burn in hell. God showed us mercy while we were sinners, so I think the least we can do is show mercy to the unbelievers. That doesn't mean you should compromise your faith, because it is clear that we are a called to be ''holy nation '' as the Bible says, but let God judge the sinners...all we can do is share the gospel and be a living example of it.

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.2 Cor 3:3

 

[tribesman]

We ourselves don't deserve mercy, we deserve justice, that is burn in hell. God showed us mercy while we were sinners, so I think the least we can do is show mercy to the unbelievers....

As a fruit of salvation we show mercy towards others.

 

[OFM]

no they are a very hateful hateing hate filled cult

 

[Katy-follower]

They are correct that God hates sin but is that all there is to our Heavenly Father? He hates sin but is also a merciful, forgiving, and loving Father that sent His Son to pay the penalty for sin and bring redemption to mankind (this is a message they hold back). Is that a mark of a true disciple of Christ? Not all that says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of God but those that do the will of the Father. Frankly speaking, their doctrine will definitely harden the hearts of sinners. Satan is using them to slander Christianity.

I agree. It made me cringe to see them on the Tyra Banks show. How are they being a good witness to Tyra and other non Christians? How is this being like Christ? If anything, they leave people hating Christians and labeling us all as being the same.

It's true that God hates sin but He wants a relationship with everyone and wants all to come to repentance. It's the sin that stands in the way. I don't hear them mention the "good news" at all.

 

[starfield]

I agree. It made me cringe to see them on the Tyra Banks show. How are they being a good witness to Tyra and other non Christians? How is this being like Christ? If anything, they leave people hating Christians and labeling us all as being the same.

It's true that God hates sin but He wants a relationship with everyone and wants all to come to repentance. It's the sin that stands in the way. I don't hear them mention the "good news" at all.

Yeah, I saw their interview on the Tyra Banks show as well and boy did I notice an awful lot of rage in the woman's eyes while she was spewing judgments on people...and the poor girls are being brainwashed with such hateful doctrine.

 

[Daniel94]

There is at least one list in scripture. (in addition to psalm 5:5 of course)

Proverbs 6:16-19

16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

I would just like to point out that this is not a list of individuals that God hates rather THINGS God hates. If a person commits one are you saying all hope is lost because God now hates them? I don't think that would be the case. If one truly repents and wants to the Lord then I don't think He would turn that person away.

Would also just like to say that I saw that Tyra episode on YouTube cause the person who posted it had called it Crazy Christians On Tyra Show and I just had to see what it was. I had to make a comment saying they were not being true Christians.

Anyways, back to the original question...I think they don't represent Christian behavior. Anyone can claim to be Christian, but that doesn't make them one. What they believe, no matter how literal you want to say it is, is wrong. I don't see how they can justify themselves when they say Thank God for 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, and other natural disasters that fall upon the Earth. Also I don't see how one can justify thanking God for dead soldiers. These people are just nuts. Little do they know, but those dead soldiers protected their right to say "Thank God for dead soldiers." Their "church" of I think 101 people last I checked mainly consists of their own family anyways.

 

[tribesman]

Interesting to see how some people who otherwise give the impression that they are so dire loving and tolerant at the same time are die hard accusers of the WBC.

 

[Daniel94]

Interesting to see how some people who otherwise give the impression that they are so dire loving and tolerant at the same time are die hard accusers of the WBC.

I am not sure who this comment is directed at, but if it is towards me(which I am thinking it is) then I really don't care. Not once did I say I hated them nor did I say God hated them. They are the ones who preach hatred.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I am not sure who this comment is directed at, but if it is towards me(which I am thinking it is) then I really don't care. Not once did I say I hated them nor did I say God hated them. They are the ones who preach hatred.

Ironically enough, the bible teaches on hatred too.

Food for thought:

Psalm 5:4-5
You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell.
The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.

I'll give you more if you're interested.

 

[Daniel94]

Ironically enough, the bible teaches on hatred too.

Food for thought:

Psalm 5:4-5
You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell.
The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.

I'll give you more if you're interested.

Although the verse you gave does clearly state the hatred of those who do wrong there is one simple verse to make that one fly out the window.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I think God loves his creation, he just hates what we do.

If you please would provide any other verses I would greatly appreciate it. You can send me a private message if you want so we don't take over this thread.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Although the verse you gave does clearly state the hatred of those who do wrong there is one simple verse to make that one fly out the window.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I think God loves his creation, he just hates what we do.

If you please would provide any other verses I would greatly appreciate it. You can send me a private message if you want so we don't take over this thread.

Are you saying, Psalm 5:4-5 are wrong?

You're doing what is popular among many today. You find a verse that seems to contradict the one someone else has, and then simply choose the one you prefer, never dealing with the other verse.

As for John 3:16, it is often misquoted as the greek word kosmos is being used in reference of believers only.

of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19

Source http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/kosmos.html <-- click

 

[tribesman]

...As for John 3:16, it is often misquoted as the greek word kosmos is being used in reference of believers only...

Not only misquoted, but also taken out of context. Since in the very same context and chapter it also reads:

John.3

[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

It doesn't say that God's love abides on the unrepentant. God's wrath on sinners is as real as His wrath on sin.

 

[Daniel94]

Are you saying, Psalm 5:4-5 are wrong?

You're doing what is popular among many today. You find a verse that seems to contradict the one someone else has, and then simply choose the one you prefer, never dealing with the other verse.

As for John 3:16, it is often misquoted as the greek word kosmos is being used in reference of believers only.


Source Kosmos - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard <-- click

Psalms 5:4-5 is not wrong rather I think it is written from the author's perspective. Lets dive a little deeper.

Psalms 5:1-7

1 Give ear to my words, O Lord, consider my meditation. 2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O Lord; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.7 But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

Now if you pay close attention to verses 1, 2, and 7 we can clearly see this is written in the eyes of the author, hence the usage of I and me. In my opinion, which we all are entitled to our own, I see this as the author identifying what he thinks God hates. I think this because in verse 7 the author states "But as for me..." so the author does not want to identify himself with anything he thinks God hates.

If you use a verse to defend what you're saying why can I not use a different verse to defend what I am saying?

Not trying to be rude, but did you read all of John 3:16? It starts by stating God's love for the world. I know it is only for those who believe, but we are all given equal opportunity to believe. The verse does not say that for God so loved the believers of him...From that I would think we would be able to logically make the assumption he shares equal love for us.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Psalms 5:4-5 is not wrong rather I think it is written from the author's perspective. Lets dive a little deeper.

Do tell, which part of scripture isn't written from the author's perspective?

Also, you're wayyyy misusing verse 7...

1 Give ear to my words, O Lord, consider my meditation.

2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O Lord; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.

4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

7 But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

8 Lead me, O Lord, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.

The Psalmist declares God's actions, and then states what his (the psalmists) action is. ".. but as for me, I will come into thy house..."

You would have to say, that the Psalmist is wrong in declaring that God hates the wicked. (which is indeed what you're working toward anyway, knowingly or not)

If you use a verse to defend what you're saying why can I not use a different verse to defend what I am saying?

That's not what I was criticizing. What I was criticizing is the way that people see a verse they don't like, then quote one apparently contradicting it. Then, instead of dealing with the verse they don't like (and why it doesn't mean what their opponent says it does) they just settle for their favored verse, and proceed to condemn the other as twisting scripture.

Whereas I, presented my case (psalm 5:5), you presented yours (John 3:16), and I countered your John 3:16, by demonstrating that the Greek from which the English was translated from, actually does not support the view you proclaim.

Not trying to be rude, but did you read all of John 3:16? It starts by stating God's love for the world.

See the Greek word for "World".
I posted about it prior to this post.

I know it is only for those who believe,

If John 3:16 says God's love is for those who believe, then it's settled unless you get another verse.

but we are all given equal opportunity to believe.

Wrong. Not everyone is presented with the Gospel.
Secondarily, Faith is something God gives us...

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

John 1
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people[c] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The verse does not say that for God so loved the believers of him...

When you approach it at the Greek, more or less, actually, yes it does.

From that I would think we would be able to logically make the assumption he shares equal love for us.

Yes, it is an assumption, but not a proven nor accurate one.