We've been freed from Law, died to its bonds, so that we may serve in the Spirit :)

[Shiloah]

The law was only meant to reveal man's sinfulness, and the futility of trying to be righteous. Unfortunately, some view the law as righteousness itself. When they break the law they turn to Jesus for forgiveness, but turn back to the law for righteousness.

The futility of trying to be righteous? What about "be ye perfect as I AM perfect" do you not understand?

 

[yahuadah]

I don't understand your last statement, first you say the law stands then your saying its fulfilled by Christ. which one is it?
And I did not say the law is nomore, read my last comment again.

 

[yahuadah]

Now I see what you are saying!

first of all, no I am not saying the law is done away with. Read my last comment to get an understanding of what Christ meant by fulfilling the law.

and in Jeremiah 31:31-35, where it says I will right my laws in there hearts and minds, what you gotta understand is, is that this prophecy hasn't come to pass yet. The lord is showing Jeremiah a vision in last days when Judah and Israel will be out of their captivity and will be reunited as a nation under Christ kingdom the kingdom of heaven.

So I suggest you not to use that excuse for not following the laws.

 

[yahuadah]

This reasoning just plain doesn't work. You're suggesting a time will come when it's OK to murder, steal, lie, commit adultery, covet what belongs to you neighbor, bear false witness, worship other gods, NOT love God with all your heart, mind, and strength? The law which is written upon our hearts is the same one written by the hand of God Himself.

The law is fulfilled, yes, by the death and resurrection of Christ. As in, it is now complete.

Now I see what you are saying!

first of all, no I am not saying the law is done away with. Read my last comment to get an understanding of what Christ meant by fulfilling the law.

and in Jeremiah 31:31-35, where it says I will right my laws in there hearts and minds, what you gotta understand is, is that this prophecy hasn't come to pass yet. The lord is showing Jeremiah a vision in last days when Judah and Israel will be out of their captivity and will be reunited as a nation under Christ kingdom the kingdom of heaven.

So I suggest you not to use that excuse for not following the laws.

 

[crossnote]

I was just making emphasis of 'sin,' crossnoted

But, that's correct, the commandments deceive us all into thinking they are good, what else would The Devil have to do if he couldn't be letting us know it's OK not to obey your mom and dad, it's OK to covet your neighbor's wife, it's OK to worship other gods.....

It also says not to bear false witness of another even if done sarcastically.

 

[crossnote]

The futility of trying to be righteous? What about "be ye perfect as I AM perfect" do you not understand?

Are you? ...

 

[GreenNnice]

'Sin' is the issue, crossnoted, not the Law. The Law is from God, and, it is righteous in itself, we, however, are not. If it was NOT for the Law, we would not know what sin was, we would just do it, and, KILL ourselves ALL off . God put the Law in place so that we can no right frorm wrong, right

And, we are His claiming, too, ARE to be led by His Spirit in us, indwelling in us, this is a repeat point but it, obviously , BEARS repeating

The Lord leads

Newness of life from being understanding of our newness in the Spirit which is from our newness of our mind, which puts off the old things and takes on the new, takes on things of the Spirit by being IN the Spirit . A word for all this said? FAITH !!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Law is from God, and, it is righteous in itself...

This is the error in thinking that law-keepers make. The law is not righteousness; it demands righteousness. Law-keepers think that the law is a benevolent friend and protector that makes them righteous. They are blind to the magnitude of their own sinfulness, and don't realize that the law condemns them. The law is holy, just and good, but it is not their friend.

 

[GreenNnice]

Yes, the Law helps us to recognise our sinfulness and understand that we can't match up to God's righteousness.

Tintin, can you elaborate on what you mean by 'we can't match up to God's righteousness.'

You say a lot of wise words from Him through you speaking on c.c., I see that, others do, too. But, could you explain that phrase, I agree that the Law helps us to recognize ( you spelled 'recognise' wrong ) our sinfulness, but what does matching up to God's righteousness have to do with being freed from the law.

Keep in mind, the word 'righteous' means having a 'right standing with God.'

So, can we, on Earth, find a way to 'match up to God's righteousness ? Does the word 'imputed' help you any in answering

Also, we were slaves under the Law and 'enemies of God' before what happened?

Some help in understanding our 'freedom' now, but, certainly, not, 'then.'

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

 

[cfultz3]

This is the error in thinking that law-keepers make. The law is not righteousness; it demands righteousness. Law-keepers think that the law is a benevolent friend and protector that makes them righteous. They are blind to the magnitude of their own sinfulness, and don't realize that the law condemns them. The law is holy, just and good, but it is not their friend.

You are so correct, the Law is no longer our means of righteousness. But surely, it is just (righteous).

Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Having known Greenie awhile, I am sure he is not saying that the Law is our righteousness, but that it is from God, and thus, it is just.

 

[john832]

I was just making emphasis of 'sin,' crossnoted

But, that's correct, the commandments deceive us all into thinking they are good, what else would The Devil have to do if he couldn't be letting us know it's OK not to obey your mom and dad, it's OK to covet your neighbor's wife, it's OK to worship other gods.....

Hmmm, I am pretty sure that it is not the Commandments that are deceiving you...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

 

[john832]

You are so correct, the Law is no longer our means of righteousness. But surely, it is just (righteous).

Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Having known Greenie awhile, I am sure he is not saying that the Law is our righteousness, but that it is from God, and thus, it is just.

We are not made righteous by the Law, that is absolutely correct. The failed logic I see in a lot of posts is that since we are not made righteous by the Law, we must be made righteous by NOT KEEPING THE LAW.

That is MBFM.

 

[john832]

We are dead to the Law as a means of our righteousness. Yet, we, who are in Christ, do show that the Law is good by acts of love.

We are dead to the Law as a means of appeasement. Yet, Christ, who is in us, has appeased God by fulfilling the laws of sacrifice.

We are dead to the Law as our guide to the Father. Yet, the Holy Spirit, who in us, guides us by the Law.

Acts of love is the fulfilling of the Law. The fulfilling of love is the essence of the Law in motion.

In summary, God saw all He did and said it was good. The Law is good and we show the goodness of it through love.

Paul agreed...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

But I don't see these passages posted very often.

 

[john832]

The futility of trying to be righteous? What about "be ye perfect as I AM perfect" do you not understand?

Can't be perfect so why try. This seems to be the logic, although I for the life of me, do not understand it. How many people never achieve or accomplish what the are capable of in life because they believe they cannot? This is the underlying theme of every lecturer or teacher on how to be successful.

Seems this little gem is not given much press either...

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Luke 10:25 …Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? 26 And Yahushua said to him: What is written in the law, what do you read? 27 He answered and said to him: You should love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might, and with all your mind. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. 28 Yahushua said to him: You have spoken correctly; do this and you will live.

Matt 22:36 Rabbi, which is the greatest commandment in the Torah? 37 And Yahushua answered him and said: You shall love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. 38 This is the greatest command in the whole Torah. 39 And this is the first, but the second is like it, And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hand all the Torah and the Prophets.These commandments can be found in Deut 6:4-5 and Lev 19:18.

But the commandments are too hard to keep….Really?

If you believe that we can't keep these commandments then I ask the question; Does YHWH (God) lie because He said…

Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command you this day, IT IS NOT TOO HARD FOR YOU, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven that you should say: Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say: Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? 14 But the word is very near unto you, in your mouth, and in your heart, that you may do it. 15 See, I have set before you this day life and good, and death and evil, 16 in that I command you this day to love YHWH Elohim (the LORD your God), to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, and His statutes, and His ordinances; then shall you live and multiply, and YHWH your Elohim shall bless you in the land where you go in to possess it.

And John/Yochanan said…

1 Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not difficult.

We disobey our Father and don't love Him with our whole-heart because we are drug away by our lusts, our desire to please our self. Then when our lust conceives it bears sin, and sin bears death (James 1). We don't love Him because we serve ourselves, and yet we do not know what we do, and our lusts actually come back on our own head, and bring death to us.

Yes, salvation has never been of works. Salvation has always been from YHWH, our Father. Messiah came to proclaim our Father's words (Deut 18:18, Jn 14:24) Just as his blood was shed for the remission of sins, the torah tells us that it is the blood that makes atonement by reason of the life (Lev 17:11-14). The sacrifice did not make us righteous, the sacrifice actually declares our unrighteousness. We should mourn the fact that blood had to be shed, and life had to be lost to cover our sins. This should humble us to our knees, being in awe of the salvation of YHWH.

Our confession should not be: I'm sorry that you gave me something that was too hard to keep so therefore You had to have Your son die.

Our confession should be: I'm SO sorry that I loved myself more than I loved You. I’m so sorry that did what was right in my eyes, and did not care what was right in Yours. I’m so sorry that there was need for blood to be shed, and that of Your beloved son, so that I might live. Teach me Your ways Father, that I might walk in them and not take the precious blood of Messiah for granted.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[john832]

Are you? ...

Are you? Do you understand what this means?

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

First let's look at the word be...

G2071
ἔσομαι
esomai
es'-om-ahee
Future tense of G1510; will be: - shall (should) be (have), shall) come (to pass), X may have, X fall, what would follow, X live long, X sojourn.

It is future tense, it means to be or become.

Now for perfect...

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

So what Christ said here is "Become mature in labor, growth, mental adn moral character."

It is a growth process that was intended to last a lifetime. We are to continually grow...

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We are not made righteous by the Law, that is absolutely correct. The failed logic I see in a lot of posts is that since we are not made righteous by the Law, we must be made righteous by NOT KEEPING THE LAW.

Therein lies the mystery you do not understand...

 

[zone]

Are you? ...

LOL....they think Jesus said, come on, you can do it! be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect!

just like they don't understand the exchange when He said to the rich young ruler:

you know the Commandments - keep them.

mkay then

 

[cfultz3]

they think Jesus said, come on, you can do it! be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect!

Zone,

Not directed at you, just responding to the statement.


Didn't Jesus really mean for those who was listen to Him at that time to obey all those things He just commanded them, even those things in chapter 6 of Matthew?

Why would He go as far as to speak, "You shall be perfect just as your Father..." in the same authoritative voice as the ten commandments were spoken in, namely, the future indicative?

Why was "shall be" spoken in the middle deponent (which indicates an action perform by one upon one's own self)?

If we are to be the sons of God, are we not to follow the commands of Jesus? And these commands are summed up by the following: God raises the sun upon those evil and those good. He sends the rain upon those just and those unjust...... Indeed, He shows no partiality in His acts of love. Likewise, Jesus was commanding us, when he said, "You shall be", that love undivided is what makes us as perfect as our Father in Heaven.

Shall we not then be as our Father, just as Jesus was when He resisted not evil, but turned the other cheek. Just as Jesus loved His enemies and blessed those who cursed Him. Did He not pray for those who physically abuse Him and persecuted Him? Did He not embrace Judas, His enemy?

True, we can do it!!! We can be as Jesus who knew not love as divided......

In Christ, we can be perfect by undivided love, just as our Father in Heaven is perfect in that aspect.

 

[GreenNnice]

Hmmm, I am pretty sure that it is not the Commandments that are deceiving you...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

LOL, REALLY read into what is being said in my below quote, johnnybegood, you will get it, pray to Him for revelation, if not, and, if you don't get it, that's OK, too, EVERYTHING in His 'due time.' and, OF COURSE, the commandments are holy and righteous and good. who is saying opposite of that They are good, they are just 'obsolete,' because we have a High Priest now intercessory to our Father in heaven whom you better be following in your life, and, why, MOsT CERTAINLY, do NOT be deceived by the commandments telling you things that are not true , that is 'someone' telling you that

But, that's correct, the commandments deceive us all into thinking they are good, what else would The Devil have to do if he couldn't be letting us know it's OK not to obey your mom and dad, it's OK to covet your neighbor's wife, it's OK to worship other gods.....

'They' = what word in this case Who is 'they' speaking of ? Hint: 'commandments' are not the 'they.'
Us=???????????

The Devil is WHO let's us know that we are NOT good enough to follow God in our lives, the commandments, they, are too much. You can TRY to follow the 10 commandments but you can't do it, and, you can't even follow them WITH God, The Devil will tell us. 'Course, we KNOW different, don't we, we who are His are NOT deceived by Him, or, 'they.'

The Lord leads. And, He leads in the Spirit and in the Truth, our spirit indwelling with His, OH, so much more than just the DECEPTION of JUST following the Law Grace and mercy though, YOU , I , we all, have it, thank God . Love Him because of this and Love others, for they will see Jesus in this.

TASTE that the Lord is good, His ways are what we are to follow, for without doing that, we will see without actually seeing