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Maddog
Guest
So in short, you don't mind people believing it's wrong, as long as they don't share this belief with others. Even in a thread specifically asking us for our thoughts.
What are your thoughts on oral sex after marriage?
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iraasuup
Guest
No! I don't mind people thinking it's wrong, or even sharing WHY/HOW they personally came to the conclusion that they think it's wrong... AS LONG AS they share it in a manner where people aren't condemned by it. ie: 'PERSONALLY, I feel that bla bla bla. The reason I feel this is based on bla bla bla. I'm telling you this because the thread asked for our thoughts on the topic, and those are my thoughts, HOWEVER, please be aware this is simply my PERSONAL thoughts on said matter'.
If people portrayed their thoughts in that way, that would be fine. Everyone reading it knows that you're simply sharing what you deem is right for you- as a personal expression of your own beliefs.
There's a big difference between saying 'Oral sex is a sin and Christans shouldn't do it' and saying 'I personally don't feel it's right because bla bla bla'.
That's my point. I really don't care what you think on the matter- it's entirely up to you. BUT don't go telling other people that THEY ARE sinning, simply because you don't PERSONALLY agree with their choices. Particularly when there is no solid biblical evidence on which to base your claim.
I really can't make this much clearer. I don't care. It's fine if you disagree with oral sex- that's entirely your choice, but that doesn't mean that others who ARE married and DO enjoy said activity are sinning by doing so.
Make sense? Maybe I should speak in Swahili or something- cos this really can't be much clearer.
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karine___
Guest
Quotation below is taken from a pamphlet by Rev. Robert J. Buschmiller
First, oral sex is not natural. It is contrary to natural law. If oral sex is OK, then are anal sex or nasal sex also OK? There must be some natural parameters to sexual expression. Otherwise, we have little reason not to permit homosexual activity or even sex between humans and animals. Something must be natural, and therefore other things unnatural.
Second, I have been asked to counsel over a hundred married couples about oral sex as foreplay. After some time of discernment, not one has maintained that oral sex was a true expression of love. The motivation behind oral sex is often lust. The spouse is not the focus of the sexual foreplay; rather, sexual stimulation is the focus. It could almost be said that one spouse is having sex with sex rather than with the other spouse. This focus on sex rather than on the spouse is a poison to love and marriage.
First, oral sex is not natural. It is contrary to natural law. If oral sex is OK, then are anal sex or nasal sex also OK? There must be some natural parameters to sexual expression. Otherwise, we have little reason not to permit homosexual activity or even sex between humans and animals. Something must be natural, and therefore other things unnatural.
Second, I have been asked to counsel over a hundred married couples about oral sex as foreplay. After some time of discernment, not one has maintained that oral sex was a true expression of love. The motivation behind oral sex is often lust. The spouse is not the focus of the sexual foreplay; rather, sexual stimulation is the focus. It could almost be said that one spouse is having sex with sex rather than with the other spouse. This focus on sex rather than on the spouse is a poison to love and marriage.
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Maddog
Guest
This all sounds rather redundant. If I post something, then of course it's what I personally think - what else would it be? There's no need to labour the point with repetition of 'I personally think', 'in my opinion' hand wringing.
No there isn't. It's two ways of saying the same thing. If the person believes that oral sex is wrong, then it is sheer logical necessity that he therefore believes others ought not to do it.
And we're back to you not wanting people to post their beliefs again. I'm not a moral relativist. I don't merely believe that oral sex is 'wrong for me', I believe it is wrong by it's very nature and so it is wrong for all people at all times. And I'm not going to shy away from stating this belief just because others may disagree. If people disagree, they disagree.
As I said, I'm not a moral relativist. I believe it's wrong for you, me and everyone. I believe others that indulge in it ARE doing wrong, whether they believe it's wrong or not.
If a vegetarian came in and told me that eating meat was wrong and that therefore everyone ought not to eat meat, I would have no problem with him stating this belief. I would disagree with him, but I wouldn't try and tell him he shouldn't express this belief.
It sort of makes sense from a relativistic paradigm. But such a worldview is not one that I share, so it's mostly meaningless to me.
As I recall, this topic got on your wick last time it came up. I don't know why it bothers you so much. For my part I don't mind people stating what they believe is the truth even if it necessarily implies that something I do or enjoy is wrong, not just for them but for me and everyone else.
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princessbella
Guest
Maddog and those who beleive sex is just for procreation i just wanted to bring something up ..
Me along with other christian women in the world are unable to have children... if sex is for procreation does that meen we/i have to remain a viirgin for the rest of my life, not get married? if i get married do me and my hubbyhave to remain celibate
now to me that would be pretty sad and not what god would intend to be taken from what he said
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TDWP22
Guest
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iraasuup
Guest
*Bangs head on wall*
You're missing my point entirely.
But, for the sake of peace and harmony, how about we just agree to disagree on this one?
You're missing my point entirely.
But, for the sake of peace and harmony, how about we just agree to disagree on this one?
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Maddog
Guest
I'll have to stop you there. I don't believe that sex is just for procreation. Rather I believe that it is the primary purpose of sex. I don't know why people conflate the two. I always try to choose my words very carefully so as to avoid this misunderstanding, but clearly there remains some kind of breakdown in communication somewhere along the line.
Of course sex has other purposes (eg. it is unitive between a man and his wife), but these are subservient to the procreative aspect. This doesn't mean that one may only have sex with the specific intention of having a baby, but it does mean is that every sexual act should be open to the possibility of conception, both in spirit and in practice. Sexual acts which are infertile by their nature (eg. sodomy) are therefore unnatural since they subvert the primary end of the sexual faculty which is procreation.
Not at all. It would only be wrong if one were to either intentionally withold one's fertility (eg. via artifical contraception) or willingly participate in a sexual act which is infertile by its very nature. Since someone who is infertile through happenstance is not intentionally trying to thwart conception then there is no wrongdoing in having sex with one's spouse. However, due respect must still be paid to the nature and function of sex, ie. just because conception may be medically unviable it doesn't negate the fact that sex remains primarily procreative in nature, so all sex acts should still be open to the possibility of life. After all, miracles still happen and God can create a new life even in a barren couple.i just wanted to bring something up ..
Me along with other christian women in the world are unable to have children... if sex is for procreation does that meen we/i have to remain a viirgin for the rest of my life, not get married? if i get married do me and my hubbyhave to remain celibate
I quite agree. Hopefully I've provided some clarity on what I meant, but you're welcome to ask further questions.
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Nikos
Guest
This is a totally unatural act and should not be engaged in even in marraige. God is not pleased with these unatural acts see Romans 1. The marriage bed is undefiled but only within the boundaries of natural human behaviour. There also is all kinds of proof that this act causes disease.
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Maddog
Guest
Sorry. Frustrating, I know, but these things happen, I suppose.
Okay, that's fine by me.
The act does not CAUSE diseases. It can be a way of SPREADING a disease. There is a subtle difference. And the only way that happens is if one or both of the people involved has an STD or something of that nature already, meaning no matter where you stick it, you're likely to infect something.
Also to the people who say this goes against "natural law" you would think that natural law would have SOMETHING to do with what actually happens in nature because, guess what... Animals do it too! Link: A Little Fellatio Goes a Long Way - ScienceNOW (I apologize about the title. Most of the other pages I was finding were littered with animals getting it on which I figured would get me in more trouble, so this was the best I could find).
The article mainly talks about it in Bonobos and fruit bats, but it's also been documented in goats, hyenas, other primates, and sheep.
However given that homosexual behavior as well as masturbation are even more widely documented in nature and still considered as going against "natural law" I have a feeling this won't make a difference either.
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allforfun
Guest
I liked your links and I have studied similar in school. What I have figured out in this thread is that for the some people it is just easier to look down us mere mortals from high and judge us as such. It really is easier to keep higher than thou attitude and tell everyone about it than try to keep an open mind.
Yeah it happens a lot, sadly. It's when people start to argue that it goes against "natural law," which is just a joke at this point, that I'm like, "Don't make me Google it because I will..." lol I wonder how many lists I've been added to just for finding links for threads like this
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allforfun
Guest
I hope I've put on ignore so all mighty and just can just take a rest and not bother having to judge me.
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Maddog
Guest
No, that's not what is meant by natural law in a theological/philosophical context. It might be the same word, but they mean quite different things.
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ekiraboh
Guest
Hi Zeb.Saw your request but I suggest you be more specific.OK,a christian lady of which ethnicity,and probably a few other qualities.Wish you God's guidance in your search.
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cafarmgirl
Guest
as my pastor has said if you are married,you can have sex anykind of sex as much as you want. only if it's with the one you are married to
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babarainbowsheep
Guest
A wonderful way of giving love and pleasure to the one you love and yourself.
Nice way to start the day for some, suprise.
Except if you dont like it or it makes you feel bad in anyway.
I currently have a wierd thing on my tounge so if I had a husband he would have to be fearless of this thing or wait till it is gone.Dont want the thing spreading to the lovewand.
Im for love and if oralsex is a way you like to express it with your husband ,I see no wrong with it.
Nice way to start the day for some, suprise.
Except if you dont like it or it makes you feel bad in anyway.
I currently have a wierd thing on my tounge so if I had a husband he would have to be fearless of this thing or wait till it is gone.Dont want the thing spreading to the lovewand.
Im for love and if oralsex is a way you like to express it with your husband ,I see no wrong with it.
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karine___
Guest
there are many things we may not see wrong with , but what about what the Holy Spirit has to say to us as individuals about it? He's Holy and pure. ultimately what we have to do is stop and listen to what He has to say to us and leave some things if needed be.
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
He gave us His Holy Spirit so we can listen to Him, if we seek to know if this or that is wrong by asking a third person we may end up ignoring His voice and end up deceiving ourselves by fine-sounding arguments . i dont mean we shouldnt listen to advice but seek always to heed His voice first because He wants an intimate relationship with YOU and that most important relationship of our lives can't be replaced by anything or anyone else.
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
He gave us His Holy Spirit so we can listen to Him, if we seek to know if this or that is wrong by asking a third person we may end up ignoring His voice and end up deceiving ourselves by fine-sounding arguments . i dont mean we shouldnt listen to advice but seek always to heed His voice first because He wants an intimate relationship with YOU and that most important relationship of our lives can't be replaced by anything or anyone else.
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That s fine, really, but I'm fairly positive that it is impossible for me to lust after my own (future) wife. If we are the same person, "one flesh" and all that jazz, Where I choose to kiss her or how often I choose to show her affection other than sexual intercourse, is my business.