What did the Jew receive first?

[peacefulbeliever]

We also see posts that say the Mystery only came via Paul and that all that was before Paul concerning the Gentiles isn't for Gentiles today. That isn't what the Bible says. The Mystery of salvation unfolded toward the Gentiles before Paul was ever converted. It was Peter who understood the mystery in Acts 10:13-15

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise , Peter; kill , and eat.
14 But Peter said , Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Acts 11:1-7
1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying , Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised , and didst eat with them.
4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying ,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend , as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

Acts 11:18 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth . . . Peter was shown how the Gentiles were granted salvation through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ - did that entail all the relevance of the ONE NEW MAN? Did that fully describe how there is no more Jew nor Gentile but all are one in the body of Christ? Yes, salvation through faith in Jesus Christ was given to the Jew first . . . [Acts 3:13,14] The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hat glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you . . . [Rom. 10:18] But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. [Rom. 11:11] I say then, Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their (Israel) fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

1 Peter 1:11,12 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified before hand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow. Unto whom [the OT prophets] it was revealed, that no unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things which are now reported unto you by them [th Church apostles and prophets in Eph. 4:11] that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
What did the OT prophets search for? The period of time between the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow. This period of time is THE MYSTERY, which was "hid in God" [Eph. 3:9] "hid from ages and from generations [Col. 1:26]; kept secret since the world began," [Rom. 16:25]; never made known "in other ages." [Eph. 3:5] Not a single word was written of THIS GREAT MYSTERY until it was revealed in detail to Paul. - If ye have heard of the dispensation [administration] of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ (Eph. 3:2-4) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ [Gal. 1:11,12] If Paul had learned this from the OT or the gospels or tradition - he would have learned it of man or been taught it - but he received it by revelation of Jesus Christ. If God hid something, believe me He hid it and kept it hid until the time appointed and it was revealed until the apostle Paul it by revelation of Jesus Christ.

As we can see on this thread, the following 2 verses are rejected because some refuse to admit that God's judgment is the same "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile." If they admitted this to be true in its simplicity, they would also have to admit that the definitions of love detailed in the law are still valid for the Gentiles. They would also have to admit that punishments and curses for willful disobedience applied to the Gentiles the same as the Jews/Israel in the Old Testament. They would also have to admit that blessings for willful obedience applied to the Gentiles as well as the Jews/Israel in the Old Testament.

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

So many today want to claim salvation without any responsibilty of obedience toward God, and then claim obedience by rejecting the instructions given to the Jew first.

In the church, the body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There are three classifications of people in scripture - Jew, Gentile, church of God [the body with Christ as the head] So one who has faith in Jesus Christ is neither a Jew nor a Gentile but belong to the body of Christ, the church of God - those who do not have faith in Jesus Christ are still considered a Jew or Gentile. And . . . the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against ALL ungodliess and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness . .

 

[just-me]

Ephesians 3:1-7
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Peacfulbeliever. I think we can both agree that the mystery revealed is that the Gentiles have been offered the gift of salvation. Quoting a scripture in more detail that you mentioned I must point out that Paul doesn't say he alone had the exclusive knowledge of this mystery. It is clear that Peter received it first when Cornelius was given incentive to beckon Peter, and Peter was told that what God had made clean was clean. This was long before Paul's conversion.

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

May God bless you

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Ephesians 3:1-7
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Peacfulbeliever. I think we can both agree that the mystery revealed is that the Gentiles have been offered the gift of salvation. Quoting a scripture in more detail that you mentioned I must point out that Paul doesn't say he alone had the exclusive knowledge of this mystery. It is clear that Peter received it first when Cornelius was given incentive to beckon Peter, and Peter was told that what God had made clean was clean. This was long before Paul's conversion. God bless

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Okay just-me - I agree that salvation was made available to the Jew first and then the Gentile - salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

I do not agree that they understood fully what all that entailed until it was revealed to Paul just as scripture says . . . . I don't believe that they fully understood the concept of Christ in you the hope of glory, Gentles being fellowheirs to all that Christ has and is, making of two ONE NEW MAN, becoming part of the body of Christ, the church with Christ as the head. I would have to negate all the scripture that says Paul received the mystery of the one body which was HID and I can't do that.

Revelation is given when and as it can be fully understood . . . I have yet many things to say unto you but you cannot bear them now.

 

[RedTent]

1 What did the OT prophets search for? The period of time between the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow. This period of time is THE MYSTERY, which was "hid in God" [Eph. 3:9] "hid from ages and from generations [Col. 1:26]; kept secret since the world began," [Rom. 16:25]; never made known "in other ages." [Eph. 3:5] Not a single word was written of THIS GREAT MYSTERY until it was revealed in detail to Paul. - If ye have heard of the dispensation [administration] of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ (Eph. 3:2-4) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ [Gal. 1:11,12] If Paul had learned this from the OT or the gospels or tradition - he would have learned it of man or been taught it - but he received it by revelation of Jesus Christ. If God hid something, believe me He hid it and kept it hid until the time appointed and it was revealed until the apostle Paul it by revelation of Jesus Christ. [/COLOR] . .

By deciding that the mystery was revealed to Paul, it wasn't in the OT, you are not even knowing about the mystery given to Paul. By your view of how God saw the Jews, you actually are blinding yourself to God. The mystery is the blood of Christ for salvation.

Even after God saw that the world had not accepted Him so God needed to create a race to set apart for special teaching and to lead, it was everyone in the world that God had in His love and care. God set the race he created apart so they wouldn't become idol worshippers like everyone else, and even that didn't work so well, they often worshipped idols. But never, not once, was a time the Jew wasn't to open worship to the gentile.

To say that Christ was a new God with a new voice is not so. Christ was at creation. From the beginning His blood was used for atonement. We see that with the crucifixion atonement became salvation, but Christ was not new to the world at all.

 

[just-me]

Okay just-me - I agree that salvation was made available to the Jew first and then the Gentile - salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

I do not agree that they understood fully what all that entailed until it was revealed to Paul just as scripture says . . . . I don't believe that they fully understood the concept of Christ in you the hope of glory, Gentles being fellowheirs to all that Christ has and is, making of two ONE NEW MAN, becoming part of the body of Christ, the church with Christ as the head. I would have to negate all the scripture that says Paul received the mystery of the one body which was HID and I can't do that.

Revelation is given when and as it can be fully understood . . . I have yet many things to say unto you but you cannot bear them now.

If Peter wouldn't have understood the mystery of the Gentiles being added to the plan of salvation, he NEVER would have said this in front of all the other apostles. There is no scripture to back up the falsehood that Paul was the first person privy to the mystery when reading this. If a person believes this falsehood then they also have to reject Romans 1:16, and Romans 2:9-10.

Acts 10:26-28, and 45-47
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in , and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized , which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

Please understand that there are many who don't want the truth to be revealed because they want to separate God's word into categories that fit their false doctrine.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

If we admit the truth of the mystery revealed, then we must also admit that what the Jews received first according to their responsibility defined in the law, also applies to the Gentiles, being all of God's children. Jesus fulfilled what was necessary in sacrifice and temple worship, now it's our responsibility to hold up to our part concerning the love that is defined and written in the law.

 

[Elin]

Jesus fulfilled what was necessary in sacrifice and temple worship, now it's our responsibility to hold up to our part concerning the love that is defined and written in the law.

Yes, our is to obey Christ's new covenant law of love (Mt 22:37-39).

 

[Elin]

By deciding that the mystery was revealed to Paul, it wasn't in the OT, you are not even knowing about the mystery given to Paul. By your view of how God saw the Jews, you actually are blinding yourself to God. The mystery is the blood of Christ for salvation.

Keeping in mind that Paul speaks of five mysteries, not just one, in the NT.

 

[RedTent]

Keeping in mind that Paul speaks of five mysteries, not just one, in the NT.

I hadn't seen this in scripture, please would you tell us about it?

 

[RedTent]

Yes, our is to obey Christ's new covenant law of love (Mt 22:37-39).

Except the law of love is the same law as it always was, not a new law. God is love itself. Often in the Psalms we see this, and no one can read the first two chapters of Genesis and not see this. Job explained it well when he explained God. Deuteronomy 6:5 - And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19:18 - Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.

 

[Elin]

the law of love is the same law as it always was, not a new law.

The law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) is for the new covenant.

And it does not include the myriad regulations of the law of Moses for the old covenant.

 

[Elin]

Keeping in mind that Paul speaks of five mysteries, not just one, in the NT.

I hadn't seen this in scripture, please would you tell us about it?

We find in the NT the mystery of

1) the death of Christ (1Co 2:1),
2) the change that will take place at the resurrection (1Co 15:51),
3) the plan of God by which a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles, after a period of disobedience
by both, will by his mercy be included in the kingdom (Ro 11:25),
4) the Incarnation (1Tim 3:16),
5) God's purpose to sum up all things in Christ (Eph 1:9), especially to include both Jews and
Gentiles in the NT church (Eph 3:3-6).

 

[RedTent]

The law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) is for the new covenant.

And it does not include the myriad regulations of the law of Moses for the old covenant.

thanks so much for all the work you did to show us the mysteries, I'll enjoy looking them all up.

You have what the new covenant and what the old says, what has been updated by the new covenant and what remains the same, and how updating is cancelling in your mind---you have presented this in such a mixed up fashion that I don't trust anything you say about it any more. I just know whenever you post the words "new covenant" you have it all mixed up in your mind about what that is about.

 

[RedTent]

We find in the NT the mystery of

1) the death of Christ (1Co 2:1),
2) the change that will take place at the resurrection (1Co 15:51),
3) the plan of God by which a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles, after a period of disobedience
by both, will by his mercy be included in the kingdom (Ro 11:25),
4) the Incarnation (1Tim 3:16),
5) God's purpose to sum up all things in Christ (Eph 1:9), especially to include both Jews and
Gentiles in the NT church (Eph 3:3-6).

Oh Dear!! Here we go. No, as in all prophecies the specifics on how God will fulfill them is not done. After they happen you can go back and see that the prophecies told about it, but it isn't going to say that this is the way I am going to bring them about. But they were still given in prophecy. So when you say that God did not speak of the mysteries until they happened, I can't agree with you. We just don't seem to be able to read scripture and see God in the same way.

 

[Elin]

We find in the NT the mystery of

1) the death of Christ (1Co 2:1),

2) the change that will take place at the resurrection (1Co 15:51),

3) the plan of God by which a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles, after a period of disobedience
by both, will by his mercy be included in the kingdom (Ro 11:25),

4) the Incarnation (1Tim 3:16),

5) God's purpose to sum up all things in Christ (Eph 1:9), especially to include both Jews and
Gentiles in the NT church (Eph 3:3-6).

Oh Dear!! Here we go. No, as in all prophecies the specifics on how God will fulfill them is not done. After they happen you can go back and see that the prophecies told about it, but it isn't going to say that this is the way I am going to bring them about. But they were still given in prophecy. So when you say that God did not speak of the mysteries until they happened, I can't agree with you. We just don't seem to be able to read scripture and see God in the same way.

Perhaps you could show, for example, where 2) and 4) are found in the OT.

 

[Elin]

The law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) is for the new covenant.

And it does not include the myriad regulations of the law of Moses for the old covenant.

thanks so much for all the work you did to show us the mysteries, I'll enjoy looking them all up.

You have what the new covenant and what the old says, what has been updated by the new covenant and what remains the same, and how updating is cancelling in your mind---you have presented this in such a mixed up fashion that I don't trust anything you say about it any more. I just know
whenever you post the words "new covenant" you have it all mixed up in your mind about what that is about.

You are confusing me with someone else.

 

[RedTent]

Perhaps you could show, for example, where 2) and 4) are found in the OT.

Could you really not know that in Genesis, we see how from the first blood sacrifice was asked for and salvation for us was not planned? That the Messiah was not predicted? They were given atonement from the beginning that became salvation at the resurrection, that is clear throughout OT scripture. Think! of all the scriptures telling of Christ, even giving the details of the town Christ would live in. Christ and salvation is a major part of OT scripture.

 

[oldthennew]

PSALM 40:7-8.
Then said I, lo, I come: in the volume of The Book it is written of Me,

8.
I delight to do Thy will, O My God, yea, The Law is within My heart.

JOHN 5:39.
Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of Me.

 

[just-me]

Yes, our is to obey Christ's new covenant law of love (Mt 22:37-39).

So is the law in the old testament different than the law of Christ? Maybe we all should start asking this question to Elin so that we know what she is actually trying to minister. Wadaya think?

 

[Elin]

So is the law in the old testament different than the law of Christ? Maybe we all should start asking this question to Elin so that we know what she is actually trying to minister. Wadaya think?

If I understand you correctly, yes, the law of Christ does not include all the regulations of the Mosiac law.

 

[Elin]

P.S.:

So is the law in the old testament different than the law of Christ? Maybe we all should start asking this question to Elin so that we know what she is actually trying to minister. Wadaya think?

If I understand you correctly, yes, most definitely, the law of Christ does not include all the regulations of the Mosiac law,
for Christ has abolished them on the cross (Eph 2:15),
and they were set aside (Heb 7:18-19) when the Levitical priesthood was changed (Heb 7:12),
on which the law was based (Heb 7:11).

The law of Christ is not the whole Pentateuch, it is Mt 22:37-39, which fulfills the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).