What do you think of the New Wine Pentecost?
- Thread starter Radius
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Me neither; but I've never understood why Peter came to the conclusion that it was time to replace Judas. He explains that prophecy needs be fulfilled; and that makes sense, but that doesn't explain why it had to be done at that time... but he explains that there needs to be 12 witnesses.
Paul says in GA2 Peter, James and John were "reputed to be pillars"; I'd expect that he mentioned them specifically because he met them at that time; but I'd think the apostles in general would have a similar reputation. So, that's where I made that association.
A pillar as "witness" occurs in Gen. 31-
51Laban also said to Jacob, “Here is the mound, and here is the pillar I have set up between you and me. 52This mound is a witness, and this pillar is a witness, that I will not go past this mound to harm you, and you will not go past this mound and pillar to harm me. 53May the God of Abraham and the God of Nahor, the God of their father, judge between us.”
Moses doesn't exactly state that he erects the pillars to "be witnesses" but they do represent Israel, who god calls his witnesses.
Paul says in GA2 Peter, James and John were "reputed to be pillars"; I'd expect that he mentioned them specifically because he met them at that time; but I'd think the apostles in general would have a similar reputation. So, that's where I made that association.
A pillar as "witness" occurs in Gen. 31-
51Laban also said to Jacob, “Here is the mound, and here is the pillar I have set up between you and me. 52This mound is a witness, and this pillar is a witness, that I will not go past this mound to harm you, and you will not go past this mound and pillar to harm me. 53May the God of Abraham and the God of Nahor, the God of their father, judge between us.”
Moses doesn't exactly state that he erects the pillars to "be witnesses" but they do represent Israel, who god calls his witnesses.
But Exodus has nothing to say about this. And there is no marriage covenant either, only divine judgement to utterly destroy the Israelites: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. (Exod 32:10). So it is not very wise or helpful to misapply Scripture.
Had Moses not interceded for these people, they would have all been killed, since the wages of sin is death.
Had Moses not interceded for these people, they would have all been killed, since the wages of sin is death.
Ok we're getting off track here. That is why I put the "marriage" covenant in quotations.
On Shavuot, God was basically asking them if they would be His people. In Ex. 19 we read this:
"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord had commanded him to speak. 8 The people all responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to the Lord."
It sounds like God is asking the Israelites to be His people, to cleave unto Him much like a wife cleaves to her husband. God asked (proposed to) them, and you can see the people accepted the proposal. It has wedding proposal typology all throughout it.
So 50 days later Moses came down with the Ketubah (the wedding contract) aka the 10 commandments, they were found committing adultery on the Lord already.
What I want you to see here is they were celebrating the Feast of Wine (new wine) on that day and they were going to essentially celebrate with wine being "married" to the God as His people. God had the new wine celebration all lined up and ready.
This is where the wine comes into play at what I believe to be the true Pentecost. God poured out His Spirit and sealed the deal with us with new wine in Acts 2 ("we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”)
Acts 2 Pentecost was NOT on Shavuot. Shavuot does not equal Pentecost like tradition says. Shavuot is during late May early June where the grapes are not even ready for harvest. New wine is late July/through mid August when they are ready for harvest which is the time the men were n the upper room and when the Holy Spirit was poured out (like wine).
Therefore, the traditional date of Pentecost is challenged and I believe break through knowledge of the Scriptures prophesied by Daniel himself is now unsealed and we are learning new things about the Scriptures: "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the scroll until the end of time. Many will go back and forth and search anxiously [through the scroll], and knowledge [of the purpose of God as revealed by His prophets] will [greatly] increase.”
If the 6,000 year prophecy of world time for man and 1,000 years for the millennial reign is correct and Jesus is to collect His church on the self same day He started it (at Pentecost/New Wine) then there could be rapture implications on this date which makes it extra special to me.
Either way, I believe the traditional Pentecost date on Shavuot is over. It wasn't on Shavuot, it's a wrap. It was at New Wine in the month of Av.
Generation2434 has a playlist on this topic and Dr. Barry Awe's youtube channel has a 5 part series on it also if you care to take a look
On Shavuot, God was basically asking them if they would be His people. In Ex. 19 we read this:
"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord had commanded him to speak. 8 The people all responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to the Lord."
It sounds like God is asking the Israelites to be His people, to cleave unto Him much like a wife cleaves to her husband. God asked (proposed to) them, and you can see the people accepted the proposal. It has wedding proposal typology all throughout it.
So 50 days later Moses came down with the Ketubah (the wedding contract) aka the 10 commandments, they were found committing adultery on the Lord already.
What I want you to see here is they were celebrating the Feast of Wine (new wine) on that day and they were going to essentially celebrate with wine being "married" to the God as His people. God had the new wine celebration all lined up and ready.
This is where the wine comes into play at what I believe to be the true Pentecost. God poured out His Spirit and sealed the deal with us with new wine in Acts 2 ("we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”)
Acts 2 Pentecost was NOT on Shavuot. Shavuot does not equal Pentecost like tradition says. Shavuot is during late May early June where the grapes are not even ready for harvest. New wine is late July/through mid August when they are ready for harvest which is the time the men were n the upper room and when the Holy Spirit was poured out (like wine).
Therefore, the traditional date of Pentecost is challenged and I believe break through knowledge of the Scriptures prophesied by Daniel himself is now unsealed and we are learning new things about the Scriptures: "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the scroll until the end of time. Many will go back and forth and search anxiously [through the scroll], and knowledge [of the purpose of God as revealed by His prophets] will [greatly] increase.”
If the 6,000 year prophecy of world time for man and 1,000 years for the millennial reign is correct and Jesus is to collect His church on the self same day He started it (at Pentecost/New Wine) then there could be rapture implications on this date which makes it extra special to me.
Either way, I believe the traditional Pentecost date on Shavuot is over. It wasn't on Shavuot, it's a wrap. It was at New Wine in the month of Av.
Generation2434 has a playlist on this topic and Dr. Barry Awe's youtube channel has a 5 part series on it also if you care to take a look