What does a Christian look like?

[gypsygirl]

See, I don't think Grace is suggesting that anyone be pre-assessed before being engaged with. I think what she meant by "approach someone" was not meeting and engaging with someone for the first time, but rather approaching them in a friendship, or developing a relationship with them after you have already met them. I think if you look at what she's saying with that little bit of difference, you will see this thread a little differently. Avoiding stereotyping people would necessitate getting to know someone first before making a judgment about them.

There are legitimate ways that a mature Christian can be treated differently than a baby Christian. For example, the Bible actually says that an elder cannot be a new Christian. Of course we know that the Bible is not saying that mature Christians are not susceptible to sin or that they somehow know everything there is to know about life and faith, but they are more seasoned and wise to lead. Likewise, you would most likely go to a mature Christian for advice rather than a baby Christian or someone who says they are Christian but lacks the fruit of a believer in their life.


I think your heart in the things you are saying is right, just that your understanding of the point of the thread missed the mark slightly There is value to garnering where a person is at spiritually, not as a prerequisite to engaging with them, but as a matter of observation as you engage with them, which is basically what you were saying as well. I do think there are ways you would engage with various individuals differently depending on where they are at spiritually. I look at the students in the Bible study that I lead and I see people at different places in their spiritual walk, and I know that they are not going to all benefit the same way from all being told the same things. If I were to disciple them individually, I would approach it differently with different individuals because some simply aren't as spiritually mature as others, which is okay, but it's also good to know as I'm assessing how I can best help them grow spiritually.

thanks for your input. i see your points, and again, i don't disagree with your examples. as you point out, the necessity for dealing with baby believers vs. seasoned believers are somewhat limited in scope, and but you do give valid examples.

and i really do appreciate your feedback. i'm going to ponder this more and come back to it. perhaps this is semantic in nature and i'm just needing to tilt my head a bit to catch that. at this point, i still am questioning that.

gypsygirl - I can relate to some of your posts. I just glanced over some and I'm going to bed now so I hope to respond in full tomorrow, but just so you know, I'll be elaborating.

thanks for sharing that. i'm starting to feel i've lost my ability to communicate at all! hahaahaa. i'll be eager to read what you share. : )

 

[rachelsedge]

in younger days, i learned too well what it looks like to play the role of the "good christian girl", when it was nothing but maintaining perception and appearance, i was very good at that--so concerned about saying or doing something that betrayed this ideal. as i fell (even) further away from God, often the greater guilt was about how i had less concern for others' impressions of me. but here's what i often found to be the most depressing part: how easy i found it to snow someone about what my faith was really like. how easy it was for other people to buy into the fact that i was such a "great christian" and had things all together.

i was empty, sad, and lacking so much. yet i would be asked to lead studies, and was often given a lot of positive feedback, using terms like "role model" and "positive influence". i think many just wanted to believe that more than they wanted to get to know me, and see what was below the surface.

imagine how dangerous that validation is to someone who is miserable in their "faith"?

I can so relate to this. Growing up as a pastor's daughter (and I still am), I knew just how to play the part. I know how to put on a mask, to pretend. Like you said, gypsy, it's so easy to fake it. Therefore, it's easy to misjudge. And you'd never even know you were misjudging; only I would.

I agree about seeing "fruits", but here's the thing:

1) Non-Christians can do good deeds. I know some people who say, "Their deeds aren't TRULY good because they aren't driven by Christ." I don't think I agree with that. Not every non-Christian has a hidden intent when they do good, and I'd still say that good deeds are good deeds no matter who they are done by. I know some very sweet people who do great things and truly care for others, but do not know Christ. There are firemen, cops, etc. who save lives every day, and I don't think a Christian could walk up to that person and say, "You saved their life but your deed was meaningless because you're not a Christian." If we wouldn't tell them that, why would we think it?

2) Yes, we can "judge" others by their fruit, but that seems to be awfully "action-based", which yes, is evidence of our faith, but not proof. Plus, what if you literally cannot do anything? What if you are blind, deaf, a paraplegic, are you any less of a Christian because you can't volunteer or "do" the work of Christ? What if you are in a Christian-hostile country and you get arrested and are in a prison cell and you can't "do" anything? I mean in the typical "do" sense, you can still do things in a cell (sing and worship, try and witness to the guards, but even those aren't guaranteed).

I almost said it's what "lifestyle" we live, but let's face it, we all live a sinful lifestyle. We fight against it as Christians, but what if I'm in dry spell, as I have been before, where I just really didn't give a cookie crumble what I was doing? What if someone were to meet me in that spell and use that as their basis for how spiritually mature I am?

I think it can be a slippery slope, and you really just have to get to know the person's heart. I probably got off on a tangent there, and I can definitely see both sides. I just am not sure what I think yet, though I probably need to re-read the entire thread again. And I'm not trying to yell, sometimes I feel when my post is mainly all questions that it seems that way, I'm just presenting another viewpoint.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

I can so relate to this. Growing up as a pastor's daughter (and I still am), I knew just how to play the part. I know how to put on a mask, to pretend. Like you said, gypsy, it's so easy to fake it. Therefore, it's easy to misjudge. And you'd never even know you were misjudging; only I would.

I agree about seeing "fruits", but here's the thing:

1) Non-Christians can do good deeds. I know some people who say, "Their deeds aren't TRULY good because they aren't driven by Christ." I don't think I agree with that. Not every non-Christian has a hidden intent when they do good, and I'd still say that good deeds are good deeds no matter who they are done by. I know some very sweet people who do great things and truly care for others, but do not know Christ. There are firemen, cops, etc. who save lives every day, and I don't think a Christian could walk up to that person and say, "You saved their life but your deed was meaningless because you're not a Christian." If we wouldn't tell them that, why would we think it?

2) Yes, we can "judge" others by their fruit, but that seems to be awfully "action-based", which yes, is evidence of our faith, but not proof. Plus, what if you literally cannot do anything? What if you are blind, deaf, a paraplegic, are you any less of a Christian because you can't volunteer or "do" the work of Christ? What if you are in a Christian-hostile country and you get arrested and are in a prison cell and you can't "do" anything? I mean in the typical "do" sense, you can still do things in a cell (sing and worship, try and witness to the guards, but even those aren't guaranteed).

I almost said it's what "lifestyle" we live, but let's face it, we all live a sinful lifestyle. We fight against it as Christians, but what if I'm in dry spell, as I have been before, where I just really didn't give a cookie crumble what I was doing? What if someone were to meet me in that spell and use that as their basis for how spiritually mature I am?

I think it can be a slippery slope, and you really just have to get to know the person's heart. I probably got off on a tangent there, and I can definitely see both sides. I just am not sure what I think yet, though I probably need to re-read the entire thread again. And I'm not trying to yell, sometimes I feel when my post is mainly all questions that it seems that way, I'm just presenting another viewpoint.

I definitely agree with this. When I think of fruits, I think of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Of course, these aren't things anyone DOES. They are things that we ARE. I get what you are saying about slippery slopes though!

 

[thecreationtutor]

here is a list of fruit - that is very convicting, and i have a lot of room to grow, and the fact that some of these don't exist or are negligent is sobering

Winning souls to christ Romasn 1:13
Personal Holiness Romans 6:22
Giving Financially Gal 5:27-28
Godly character Gal 5:22-23
Good works Col 1:10
Sacrificial Worship Heb 13:5


oh man