What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

[ForestGreenCook]

That's right. What he did not do was force His gift upon us. God has OFFERED salvation to all men.


The uttermost in giving Himself would be to offer His gift to everyone possible, which is exactly what He has done.

That is because they have chosen not to.
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Love is not something you can force upon someone. Once something is forced, it is no longer love.

Rom 1 is directed to those of spiritual Israel who are disobedient in turning away from God.

 

[oyster67]

...is God's desire for all men to be saved fulfilled if someone doesn't get saved.

No, it is not. Love does not demand that one's desire for it be fulfilled. That is not how love works.

I do believe that mankind does have some freewill in making the choice of accepting God's gift of Salvation. But like others have pointed out, just because God has that desire, it might not be reciprocated.
So yes, God does have that desire, but He doesn't force us to desire it as well. IMHO.

IMHO your HO is a fact.

 

[Cameron143]

The word "hate" is a Hebraism which does not contradict the nature of God, it simply indicates the secondary position of Esau in the order of God's preferences. The same word is used in Luke 14:26. The idea is not that of hatred, but of position in a hierarchy; rephrased, it would be like this: whoever puts his family above Jesus Christ, cannot be His disciple.

I agree that the word hate is not used as we commonly use. But I don't agree that your explanation is the intended one. I think a better explanation is that God inclines Himself toward one and not the other.

 

[Magenta]

I was responding to the question posed that if God must do good, what does that mean? In doing good, does
that mean to His possible limits or not and can a negative human outcome be included in God doing good?

Now seems as good a time as any to bring the question of justice into the conversation .. When speaking of good, since God alone is good, all He does is good and has good outcomes, not only for Him, but for all who love Him and have been called according to His purpose. No doubt quite a few human beings would disagree, especially those who do not act justly, refuse to take responsibility for their actions, and deny any wrong-doing, all attributes of what would seem to be a large majority of criminals, reprobates, and delinquents.

 

[Magenta]

I recommend you to read the book Jesus, The Son of Man, by Khalil Gibran. The book shows the perspective of different people (Matthew, Mary Magdalene, Joseph of Arimathea, Judas the Iscariot, Pilates, Caiaphas, a widow, a shepherd, John etc.) on Jesus Christ after they meet Him.

I really liked his The Prophet .

 

[oyster67]

how was Moctezuma II offered salvation?

Was he not a son of Adam and Noah? Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. His faith was counted as righteousness, which is counted as salvation.

it takes special revelation found in the Bible for a person to be saved, doesn't it?

It took the faith sought out by men like Enoch, Noah, and Abraham, which was available to every man ever created until the time further revelation was given.

 

[HeIsHere]

That's very interesting. So God's desire is that people will seek after Him? Since the Bible says none seek after God, would God have to act to go get them?

Do you believe that Paul is stating no unbeliever seeks God?

What Paul is asserting in context is that they a can and should but often they do not.
They should be seeking the God who is revealed in creation (Rom 1:20-21).
Since God rewards those who diligently seek Him (Heb 11:6), the search for God will lead to an examination of the claims of Christ.
People are held accountable by God for not seeking and believing.

This is the correct understanding so we do not end up with contradictions and paradoxes.

And He has made from one [a]blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Acts 17:26-27

 

[Cameron143]

Rom 1 is directed to those of spiritual Israel who are disobedient in turning away from God.

This post has only one question. There are plenty of other threads to discuss these other matters. Please

I recommend you to read the book Jesus, The Son of Man, by Khalil Gibran. The book shows the perspective of different people (Matthew, Mary Magdalene, Joseph of Arimathea, Judas the Iscariot, Pilates, Caiaphas, a widow, a shepherd, John etc.) on Jesus Christ after they meet Him.

I appreciate the recommendation. I've met Jesus myself. I'm well aware of the changes that attend such an event. The gospels are also full of stories of those who encountered Jesus and didn't have a similar experience.

 

[Cameron143]

Was he not a son of Adam and Noah? Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. His faith was counted as righteousness, which is counted as salvation.


It took the faith sought out by men like Enoch, Noah, and Abraham, which was available to every man ever created until the time further revelation was given.

All 3 of these men were sought out by God, not the other way around.

 

[Cameron143]

No, it is not. Love does not demand that one's desire for it be fulfilled. That is not how love works.


IMHO your HO is a fact.

I'm not asking how love works...only desire. But you are right...a desire doesn't have to be fulfilled to be genuine.

 

[Cameron143]

Do you believe that Paul is stating no unbeliever seeks God?

What Paul is asserting in context is that they a can and should but often they do not.
They should be seeking the God who is revealed in creation (Rom 1:20-21).
Since God rewards those who diligently seek Him (Heb 11:6), the search for God will lead to an examination of the claims of Christ.
People are held accountable by God for not seeking and believing.

This is the correct understanding so we do not end up with contradictions and paradoxes.

And He has made from one [a]blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Acts 17:26-27

Paul is quoting scripture. What he quotes is a picture of the unregenerated condition of fallen mankind. Acts 17 speaks to God's action towards mankind. The 2 aren't incompatible nor dependent on each other to be true.

 

[Simona1988]

I think a better explanation is that God inclines Himself toward one and not the other.

It means that Esau's time was not then, not that God ignores him forever. With Esau God had other plans.

 

[oyster67]

God's desire is that people will seek after Him?

Sure.

the Bible says none seek after God

There have indeed been times and places where none have sought Him. That does not mean that He was not accessible.

would God have to act to go get them?

That is what He has done and continues to do through you and I when we yield to His Spirit.

 

[HeIsHere]

Paul is quoting scripture. What he quotes is a picture of the unregenerated condition of fallen mankind. Acts 17 speaks to God's action towards mankind. The 2 aren't incompatible nor dependent on each other to be true.

Psalm 10:4 says, “The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God.”
Psalm does not say that no one seeks God. It is the wicked who do not seek God.
I guess you want to assert all unbelievers fall under the label “the wicked.”

But that is a stttrrr ...eee.... e .... ee .... tchhh.

I really do not think Psalms should be read that way.

Once again, a thread with undertones of Calvinism, I stand by my first post on this thread, what God desires is simply that, no need to over complicate is to make it fit a broader schema.

 

[Cameron143]

It means that Esau's time was not then, not that God ignores him forever. With Esau God had other plans.

I see the plans and interest God showed in Jacob even though he seems more sinful to me than Esau. I don't see his attention to Esau. That must be assumed.

 

[Cameron143]

Sure.

There have indeed been times and places where none have sought Him. That does not mean that He was not accessible.

That is what He has done and continues to do through you and I when we yield to His Spirit.

It's a condition. The condition must be altered before the results will be altered.

 

[oyster67]

All 3 of these men were sought out by God, not the other way around.

God seeks out all whose hearts are good soil for a relationship with Him. I hope you are not being affected by some of the Calvinist false teachers who are being allowed to roam this forum.

 

[Magenta]

So God's desire is that people will seek after Him?

Jeremiah 29:13-14a

 

[Cameron143]

Psalm 10:4 says, “The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God.”
Psalm does not say that no one seeks God. It is the wicked who do not seek God.
I guess you want to assert all unbelievers fall under the label “the wicked.”

But that is a stttrrr ...eee.... e .... ee .... tchhh.

I really do not think Psalms should be read that way.

Once again, a thread with undertones of Calvinism, I stand by my first post on this thread, what God desires is simply that, no need to over complicate is to make it fit a broader schema.

You developed the narrative. I'm following you. I asked 1 question.
I haven't taken any position on what constitutes being wicked but stretching occasionally can keep you limber.

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 10:4 says, “The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God.”
Psalm does not say that no one seeks God. It is the wicked who do not seek God.
I guess you want to assert all unbelievers fall under the label “the wicked.”

Scripture says none seek Him. Romans 3:10-12

As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks
God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”