What does it mean to be "born again?"
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Re: What does it mean to be "born again?"
• John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of
the Spirit is spirit.
In the beginning, Adam got his life via a special act of God (Gen 2:7) and
everyone since then gets, and has gotten, their life via Adam (Acts 17:26)
viz: nobody's life is unique; it's all one life, it's all Adam's life.
That would be okay except that Adam's life underwent a destructive
transformation via the forbidden fruit incident in the 3rd chapter of Genesis.
As a result human nature became abnormal, and everyone since then has
been malfunctioning. Ergo:
• John 3:7 . .You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born
again.
Well, NIcodemus was a rabbi; they're supposed to know things; whereas the
average John Que and Jane Doe aren't all that well-informed about human
nature. "I'm okay, you're okay" is their mantra; but God says: None of you
are okay.
_
Re: What does it mean to be "born again?"
• John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of
the Spirit is spirit.
In the beginning, Adam got his life via a special act of God (Gen 2:7) and
everyone since then gets, and has gotten, their life via Adam (Acts 17:26)
viz: nobody's life is unique; it's all one life, it's all Adam's life.
That would be okay except that Adam's life underwent a destructive
transformation via the forbidden fruit incident in the 3rd chapter of Genesis.
As a result human nature became abnormal, and everyone since then has
been malfunctioning. Ergo:
• John 3:7 . .You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born
again.
Well, NIcodemus was a rabbi; they're supposed to know things; whereas the
average John Que and Jane Doe aren't all that well-informed about human
nature. "I'm okay, you're okay" is their mantra; but God says: None of you
are okay.
_
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Hello again ResidentAlien, et al, here's a short article that addresses the main topic of this thread. It was written by one of my very favorite teachers, Anglican theologian, Dr. J. I. Packer.
I'm also doing this to see if what I am writing and pasting in is any clearer this time around (as ResidentAlien said that he found the look of my last post to him to be "sloppy"
). Please let me know what you think of my formatting. It looks ok on my end/on my computer, but perhaps the formatting doesn't look that good on your end?
I'm also doing this to see if what I am writing and pasting in is any clearer this time around (as ResidentAlien said that he found the look of my last post to him to be "sloppy"
). Please let me know what you think of my formatting. It looks ok on my end/on my computer, but perhaps the formatting doesn't look that good on your end?
REGENERATION
THE CHRISTIAN IS BORN AGAIN
In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
JOHN 3:3
THE CHRISTIAN IS BORN AGAIN
In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
JOHN 3:3
Regeneration is a New Testament concept that grew, it seems, out of a parabolic picture-phrase that Jesus used to show Nicodemus the inwardness and depth of the change that even religious Jews must undergo if they were ever to see and enter the kingdom of God, and so have eternal life (John 3:3-15).
Jesus pictured the change as being “born again.”
The concept is of God renovating the heart, the core of a person’s being, by implanting a new principle of desire, purpose, and action, a dispositional dynamic that finds expression in positive response to the gospel and its Christ. Jesus’ phrase “born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5) harks back to Ezekiel 36:25–27, where God is pictured as symbolically cleansing persons from sin’s pollution (by water) and bestowing a “new heart” by putting his Spirit within them. Because this is so explicit, Jesus chides Nicodemus, “Israel’s teacher,” for not understanding how new birth happens (John 3:9–10). Jesus’ point throughout is that there is no exercise of faith in himself as the supernatural Savior, no repentance, and no true discipleship apart from this new birth.
Elsewhere John teaches that belief in the Incarnation and Atonement, with faith and love, holiness and righteousness, is the fruit and proof that one is born of God (1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4). It thus appears that as there is no conversion without new birth, so there is no new birth without conversion.
Though infant regeneration can be a reality when God so purposes (Luke 1:15, 41–44), the ordinary context of new birth is one of effectual calling—that is, confrontation with the gospel and illumination as to its truth and significance as a message from God to oneself.
Regeneration is always the decisive element in effectual calling.
Regeneration is monergistic: that is, entirely the work of God the Holy Spirit. It raises the elect among the spiritually dead to new life in Christ (Ephesians 2:1–10). Regeneration is a transition from spiritual death to spiritual life, and conscious, intentional, active faith in Christ is its immediate fruit, not its immediate cause. Regeneration is the work of what Augustine called “prevenient” grace, the grace that precedes our outgoings of heart toward God. ~Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs (pp. 157–158)
~Deut-
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Re: What does it mean to be "born again?"
• John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born
of the Spirit is spirit.
Flesh is tangible, whereas spirit is intangible. Flesh is solid, whereas spirit is
no more solid than an atmospheric anomaly
We can sit and stand on flesh, but try sitting and standing on thin air and
see what happens. That's even more difficult than walking on water, i.e.
flesh can be weighed and measured, and even the air can be weighed and
measured, but spirit isn't physical: it has neither size, nor shape, nor atomic
mass. It's fairly easy to describe air, but I have no points of reference with
which to describe spirit because it's supernatural.
They say water is life; but spirit is even more so. In point of fact, human life
is sentient by means of spirit, a.k.a. the breath of life. (Gen 2:7)
Now, humanity's original breath of life took a turn for the worse in the
garden of Eden. The thing is: God has decided it best to neither repair it nor
renovate it; rather, He prefers humanity's original breath of life scrapped
and replaced with an upgrade.
• John 3:7 . .You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born
again.
In other words: the replacement we're talking about isn't optional, rather,
it's a mandatory requirement because it's impossible for folks in our era to
qualify for a pass into the kingdom of God without they first upgrade to an
improved breath of life; especially to a breath of life that's Serpent-proof.
_
Re: What does it mean to be "born again?"
• John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born
of the Spirit is spirit.
Flesh is tangible, whereas spirit is intangible. Flesh is solid, whereas spirit is
no more solid than an atmospheric anomaly
We can sit and stand on flesh, but try sitting and standing on thin air and
see what happens. That's even more difficult than walking on water, i.e.
flesh can be weighed and measured, and even the air can be weighed and
measured, but spirit isn't physical: it has neither size, nor shape, nor atomic
mass. It's fairly easy to describe air, but I have no points of reference with
which to describe spirit because it's supernatural.
They say water is life; but spirit is even more so. In point of fact, human life
is sentient by means of spirit, a.k.a. the breath of life. (Gen 2:7)
Now, humanity's original breath of life took a turn for the worse in the
garden of Eden. The thing is: God has decided it best to neither repair it nor
renovate it; rather, He prefers humanity's original breath of life scrapped
and replaced with an upgrade.
• John 3:7 . .You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born
again.
In other words: the replacement we're talking about isn't optional, rather,
it's a mandatory requirement because it's impossible for folks in our era to
qualify for a pass into the kingdom of God without they first upgrade to an
improved breath of life; especially to a breath of life that's Serpent-proof.
_
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Hello @ResidentAlien, I told you what I believe and why (at least in part), and you told me that you don’t agree with me, and that’s fine (this topic has been and continues to be quite controversial for a reason, yes ).
So I agree, we’re done (for now anyway), and that’s fine too. However, if you have another point to make that you think is important/that you think I may have missed somehow, please don’t hesitate to make it or ask me a question about it (and if it’s ok with you?, I will do the same, in this thread or elsewhere).
God bless you!!
~Deut
p.s. - I’m very sorry to know that what I’ve written shows up as sloppy on your end. It looks pretty readable to me on my end, I wonder if there is anyway to fix that (w/o using a .pdf or something similar)
).So I agree, we’re done (for now anyway), and that’s fine too. However, if you have another point to make that you think is important/that you think I may have missed somehow, please don’t hesitate to make it or ask me a question about it (and if it’s ok with you?, I will do the same, in this thread or elsewhere).
God bless you!!
~Deut
p.s. - I’m very sorry to know that what I’ve written shows up as sloppy on your end. It looks pretty readable to me on my end, I wonder if there is anyway to fix that
(w/o using a .pdf or something similar)
God bless you brother , there is nothing wrong at all in the way you type...
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Thank you for letting me know Sister
I’ve looked at this thread on several different devices and my posts look ok to me on my Windows desktop and laptop, and on my iPad and iPhone.
So I’m not sure why it’s such a problem for ResidentAlien, but apparently it is.
Thank you for your help/input
God bless you!!
~Deut
I’ve looked at this thread on several different devices and my posts look ok to me on my Windows desktop and laptop, and on my iPad and iPhone.
So I’m not sure why it’s such a problem for ResidentAlien
, but apparently it is.Thank you for your help/input
God bless you!!
~Deut
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The term "born again" is actually a mistake Nicodemus made. Jesus asked him if he was born ἄνωθεν. Anothen. In Greek this word had 2 meanings. One is "again" the other is "from above!"
Jesus was not asking if a man can be born a second time, or "again," from his mother's womb, which is basically what Nicodemas thought! He was asking if he had been born from above. Many translations have also mistranslated these words. Born from above, means the God sends the Holy Spirit down from heaven, so we are born from above. This also implies monergistic, which means justification (Rms 5:1) is totally a work of our sovereign Lord. Decisional regeneration cannot be said to be "from above" because it is not all from above, but partly from Earth.
Moving on, being born from above means through Christ's death on the cross, he has paid the price for our sin. When we hear the gospel being preached, the Holy Spirit takes us from death to life!
"But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." Eph 2:4-5
We were dead people, incapable of making any decision to help ourselves out of the grave. But, God made us alive with Christ. What a powerful statement! Once we were dead, then God made us alive. Once again:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:8-10
So, we are not just changed, our entire being goes from death to life, through the power of God! We cannot lose our salvation. It is a gift, and God doesn't take back our gifts. Even if we end up in a spiritual desert, or a dark night of the soul, we still belong to Christ!
So, being born from above means God chooses us, gives us the faith to belief, makes us alive in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. We are in Christ, and we have been taken from death to life, from darkness into life. We want to follow and obey God the rest of our lives, because we are new creations in Christ! (2 Cor.:5:17)
Jesus was not asking if a man can be born a second time, or "again," from his mother's womb, which is basically what Nicodemas thought! He was asking if he had been born from above. Many translations have also mistranslated these words. Born from above, means the God sends the Holy Spirit down from heaven, so we are born from above. This also implies monergistic, which means justification (Rms 5:1) is totally a work of our sovereign Lord. Decisional regeneration cannot be said to be "from above" because it is not all from above, but partly from Earth.
Moving on, being born from above means through Christ's death on the cross, he has paid the price for our sin. When we hear the gospel being preached, the Holy Spirit takes us from death to life!
"But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." Eph 2:4-5
We were dead people, incapable of making any decision to help ourselves out of the grave. But, God made us alive with Christ. What a powerful statement! Once we were dead, then God made us alive. Once again:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:8-10
So, we are not just changed, our entire being goes from death to life, through the power of God! We cannot lose our salvation. It is a gift, and God doesn't take back our gifts. Even if we end up in a spiritual desert, or a dark night of the soul, we still belong to Christ!
So, being born from above means God chooses us, gives us the faith to belief, makes us alive in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. We are in Christ, and we have been taken from death to life, from darkness into life. We want to follow and obey God the rest of our lives, because we are new creations in Christ! (2 Cor.:5:17)
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.
Your original request wanted folks' opinions-- your request didn't ask for
the thoughts of someone who knows what they're talking about. Let's stick
to your original request for now and see what comes of it.
BTW: If perchance this topic is troubling you pertaining to your own afterlife;
I suggest consulting an ordained pastor for an explanation.
_
Your original request wanted folks' opinions-- your request didn't ask for
the thoughts of someone who knows what they're talking about. Let's stick
to your original request for now and see what comes of it.
BTW: If perchance this topic is troubling you pertaining to your own afterlife;
I suggest consulting an ordained pastor for an explanation.
_
Since you obviously didn't read or comprehend my post, let's look at what I said:
The only thing that troubles me is that a room full of people who say "You must be born again" don't seem to have any first-hand knowledge of the experience. Maybe you have to be an ordained pastor to be born again, I didn't think of that.
"I'd really like to hear well-though-out ideas based on scripture."
To be fair, I did say "based on scripture"; but I haven't read anything that's well-thought-out. I've read a lot of standard scripture verses: copied and pasted usually. But if I were to ask myself: Do any of these responses reflect the thoughts of someone who has actually been born again, I'd have to say no.The only thing that troubles me is that a room full of people who say "You must be born again" don't seem to have any first-hand knowledge of the experience. Maybe you have to be an ordained pastor to be born again, I didn't think of that.
Ephesians 1:13 says this:
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
Ephesians 1:13 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.13.ESV
The Holy Spirit seals us in him when we hear the word and believe it. You might say we are immersed into Christ.
“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.”
1 John 5:1 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV
That is what we see here too. If we are born of God wouldn’t that be the same as born again or born from above.
“For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised. From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.”
2 Corinthians 5:14-19 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/2co.5.17.ESV
The phrase born again appears here too.
“since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;”
1 Peter 1:23 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1pe.1.23.ESV
The reference to the perishable seed and the imperishable seed reminds me of this passage.
“But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.”
1 Corinthians 15:35-49 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.15.35-49.ESV
Being born again is a birth at the spirit level. Our first birth was a birth of flesh: physical.
When a person is born again the old man (old nature) dies - Paul says in Romans 6 that it is crucified with Christ. Then there is a new birth of a new nature (Paul calls this being resurrected with Christ - Romans 6 and Ephesians 2:4-6). This is a change at the spirit level of a person. Thus Jesus told Nicodemus - "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit."
Our first birth made us a son of Adam. The second birth makes us a son of God.
So the believer who has been born again has a complete change in who he is at the spirit level. He still has the same physical body, of course, but who he actually is has been changed.
When a person is born again the old man (old nature) dies - Paul says in Romans 6 that it is crucified with Christ. Then there is a new birth of a new nature (Paul calls this being resurrected with Christ - Romans 6 and Ephesians 2:4-6). This is a change at the spirit level of a person. Thus Jesus told Nicodemus - "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit."
Our first birth made us a son of Adam. The second birth makes us a son of God.
So the believer who has been born again has a complete change in who he is at the spirit level. He still has the same physical body, of course, but who he actually is has been changed.
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Dysphoria is defined as a state of feeling very unhappy, uneasy, or
dissatisfied.
There are growing numbers of pre-pubescent girls at large suffering from
gender dysphoria and have seriously considered undergoing a sex change--
not because they feel like a boy trapped in a girl's body, but because they
sincerely believe life offers more and better advantages for boys. In other
words; thus far their life as a girl has been disappointing and they are
desperately wanting to try on something new. (Life as an artificial boy isn't
all that great either but many of the girls discover that too late to go back.)
My point is; quite a few folk are dissatisfied with who they are, not only
sexually, but mostly psychologically and spiritually, and would really and
truly like to try on something new. Well; God offers an alternative to the
you that you are.
Anyone that has studied the life of Christ can't help but admire the
characteristics of his humanity. If ever there were a gold standard in role
models; he would have to be it. So although many of us are going to
complete our lives hating ourselves; should be attain the good side of the
resurrection process, we are sure to come out as someone we like.
• John 11:25 . . I am the resurrection
_
Dysphoria is defined as a state of feeling very unhappy, uneasy, or
dissatisfied.
There are growing numbers of pre-pubescent girls at large suffering from
gender dysphoria and have seriously considered undergoing a sex change--
not because they feel like a boy trapped in a girl's body, but because they
sincerely believe life offers more and better advantages for boys. In other
words; thus far their life as a girl has been disappointing and they are
desperately wanting to try on something new. (Life as an artificial boy isn't
all that great either but many of the girls discover that too late to go back.)
My point is; quite a few folk are dissatisfied with who they are, not only
sexually, but mostly psychologically and spiritually, and would really and
truly like to try on something new. Well; God offers an alternative to the
you that you are.
Anyone that has studied the life of Christ can't help but admire the
characteristics of his humanity. If ever there were a gold standard in role
models; he would have to be it. So although many of us are going to
complete our lives hating ourselves; should be attain the good side of the
resurrection process, we are sure to come out as someone we like.
• John 11:25 . . I am the resurrection
_
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i like to compare myself before and after.
how i think is differently. i think about God constantly and less about myself even though i still do have selfish thoughts.
how i love is differently. i use to love with my mind and when people did me wrong i was quick to write them off. now that i love from the heart and believe from the heart [Romans 10:9] i love people enough to try and work out our differences or wrong doings.
even my wants have become different than before.
being Born Again is more than just Salvation, it is the changing of a life going one direction and turning towards a New Direction while never having the desire to go back to the old direction it was originally headed.
it really is the difference of having TWO Lives as opposite from night and day.
how i think is differently. i think about God constantly and less about myself even though i still do have selfish thoughts.
how i love is differently. i use to love with my mind and when people did me wrong i was quick to write them off. now that i love from the heart and believe from the heart [Romans 10:9] i love people enough to try and work out our differences or wrong doings.
even my wants have become different than before.
being Born Again is more than just Salvation, it is the changing of a life going one direction and turning towards a New Direction while never having the desire to go back to the old direction it was originally headed.
it really is the difference of having TWO Lives as opposite from night and day.
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