Offered again for your information and learning. Be blessed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SjNNAkieqw
What does this mean: "I have said, Ye are gods..."
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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J
jaybird88
Guest
Michael Heiser does a good presentation on the subject if anyones interested in learning more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-O5QfT6N1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-O5QfT6N1s
I'm sorry sir, I missed this earlier.
Would you mind telling me why you see a difference between children and sons of God?
I am most curious.
Well jaybird, that explains a few things. I see you've found michael heiser's presentation regarding Psalm 82:6. I am well familar with his presentation from about 4 or 5 years ago. And as I told you about two weeks ago, (that's when I posted last) you have to take the plain meaning of the Psalm within its immediate context. You then introduced to me a Deuteronomy passage and ask me to explain it.
I don't have to explain it because your the one that has to connect the dots of why or what does that passage have to do with Psalm 82? Now, you might be interested in reading the following which is a rebuttal to heiser's presentation. It is also a sound and Biblical rebuttal. Enjoy!
https://www.aomin.org/aoblog/2009/10/19/die-like-men-a-response-to-dr-michael-heiser/IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
J
jaybird88
Guest
Well jaybird, that explains a few things. I see you've found michael heiser's presentation regarding Psalm 82:6. I am well familar with his presentation from about 4 or 5 years ago. And as I told you about two weeks ago, (that's when I posted last) you have to take the plain meaning of the Psalm within its immediate context. You then introduced to me a Deuteronomy passage and ask me to explain it.
I don't have to explain it because your the one that has to connect the dots of why or what does that passage have to do with Psalm 82? Now, you might be interested in reading the following which is a rebuttal to heiser's presentation. It is also a sound and Biblical rebuttal. Enjoy!
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
its not the best rebuttal is it. it leaves so many holes.
how did these men get into the skies?
why would men, who are not divine, be in a divine council?
the Most High is presiding over this council, i thought no man has seen the Most High?
these men were placed as judges over the nations of the world, and they were so absent minded they did not know they would die? i would not appoint someone of such low intelligence to operate a childs swing set, yet the Almighty Himself appointed these guys? that makes little sense.
i accept this passage just as it reads, the sons of the Most High are some kind of celestial beings. they were put over nations by the Most High, what the big deal? you guys act as if its some kind of sin to believe this, not like i am commanding everyone to worship them.
J
jaybird88
Guest
"sons of the Most High" was always a specific phrase to refer to angels/heavenly beings. if you look at ancient sources of Jews and Christians, it is always referring to heavenly beings.
in the old days it was a given, the phrase had no duel meaning. but for some reason, many hundred of years after Jesus, the church started to weed out this meaning and re apply a mortal man of earth meaning to it.
There are heavenly beings mentioned in scripture.
Who are the watchers and holy ones?
Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
And who are the elders who sat before God?
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Also note that the devil came with the sons of God each time they presented themselves, which suggests, he too is one of the sons of God. I don't know if that is true or not, but it is interesting that he came with the sons of God each time the sons of God were called to present themselves.
If the devil is a fallen angel, then at least some of the higher angels might be sons of God.
It is also interesting to note that both Jesus, who took His flesh and bone body to heaven and the sons of God were able to materialize in the flesh. Which might suggest they too have flesh like that of Jesus. The sons of God in Genesis, took the daughters of man and had children. This could be why many nations had gods (plural), like the Greek did.
Just a thought.
J
jaybird88
Guest
watchers and holy ones, going by the canon without the non canon scriptures, sounds to me like beings that are not quite of this world like the rest of us.
elders before the Most High i wouldnt know, im not so well read on revelation.
i believe Satan is one of the sons of the Most High like the others that present themselves before Him. i always thought it interesting that Satan is always separated from the group, the sons of the Most High and Satan presented themselves. why is Satan named and the others not?
Josephus believed the greek titans were the fallen ones from Gen 6.
Therein lies the problem of all the division, different versions, different denominations, all things contrary to UNITY. Interpretations belong to God, NOT TO MEN.
True, His revelation did NOT come from his own interpretation, but came from what the Holy Spirit of Truth told him.
Agreed. Nothing wrong with a person going to Strongs, studying, comparing other versions, to try to get a better understanding for their own self. The problem however is when people try to teach others what they have came up with via their own study based on their own interpretations, and worse yet try to pass off what they are teaching as being TRUTH. This generation fails to understand this simple concept. Interpretations belong to God NOT TO MEN. A child who merely believes the Word of God and what it plainly says and teaches, is far better off that a person who has interpreted and studied the Bible for 50 years. The Holy Ghost can teach a person __________ in 3 minutes, compared to a person who has sought understanding of _______ via Hebrew/Greek, other versions, and 50 years of study.
This generation would do well to pray to God every day for 3 years for the Holy Ghost to reveal TRUTH to them, and then she does reveal it, Than to interpret the Bible for 50 years via their own intellect. This generation does not seek God, nor has the patience to wait on God, to talk with them, to give them understanding. This generation bi-passes that step and seeks that understanding through their own power, giving demons the permission to cause them to believe false things, and then start teaching false doctrines because what they have come up with, they think is TRUTH. Why? Because they failed miserably to understand that Interpretations belong to God and not to men. God will reveal to whom God will reveal interpretations.
The Holy Ghost revealed it to her. This generation seeks understanding of the Word of God, NOT by waiting for the Holy Ghost to reveal Truths, but try to interpret the Word of God via their own means to try to understand the Word of God, Hence division after division. One version after another version. One denomination after another denomination. So UNITY among Christian Brothers and Sisters, has been destroyed by men interpreting things that they should not do. As if they had the authority to do so.
There is a perfect version, and that would be the version that God ordained. Now which one that is, is the debate.
Scriptures teach that "ALL Scriptures" is inspired by God. Therefore if you have a version of the Bible, and there is one verse that is wrong, misinterpreted, added to, or omitted from. That version is not the Word of God. Which some would debate is the KJV as well. The Father in Heaven did not leave His children MANY Words of God. God in Heaven left us ONE, the one He ordained.
Amen, that is very TRUE. God is the key, NOT US (and our interpretations)
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Understand.
Children of Cats are what? Cats.
Children of Dogs are what? Dogs.
Children of Lions are what? Lions.
Children of Humans are what? Humans
Children of Worms are what? Worms
Children of Elephants are what? Elephants
Children of Fish are what? Fish
Children of Birds are what? Birds
Children of God are what? Gods
Children can understand that.
Luk_20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Joh_11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Rom_8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom_8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom_9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (Doesn't matter what you believe, doesn't matter what you say, this is how the children of God and the children of the devil are manifested, by what they DO, their works. Those who Love One Another have many good works, those who do not Love One Another, have bad works. Good Trees only produce good fruits. Bad Trees produce bad fruits. This generation is like unto a Lukewarm TREE, which produces both good and bad fruits, this too is a bad tree, because of the bad fruits which that Lukewarm tree produces)
Those who Love One Another will be with Jesus forever and ever.
Those who fail to Love One Another will be with satan forever and ever, unless they TRULY repent and start to Love One Another as their Lord and Savior COMMANDED them to do.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
[FONT="]How dare one of you with a complaint against another go to court before pagan judges and not before God’s people? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]2 Don’t you know that God’s people are going to judge the universe? If you are going to judge the universe, are you incompetent to judge these minor matters? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels, not to mention affairs of everyday life? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]4 So if you require judgments about matters of everyday life, why do you put them in front of men who have no standing in the Messianic Community? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]5 I say, shame on you! Can it be that there isn’t one person among you wise enough to be able to settle a dispute between brothers? [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]6 Instead, a brother brings a lawsuit against another brother, and that before unbelievers![/FONT]