What exactly is "the Gospel"?

[Butch5]

----
Part 3:

The unscriptural phrases we use when sharing the Gospel can actually cloud up the Gospel rather than clarify it.
(Not that these phrases are "bad", but just that they are not helpful to an unbeliever as a way of getting them to understanding the simple Gospel)

1. "Give your heart to God"
-The NT doesn't ask us to do this.
-It is not about you giving Him anything; it's about Him giving YOU everything.

2. "Give your life to God"
- This is not what the NT asks us to do.
- although this phrase is useful in discipleship, IT IS NOT ABOUT SALVATION.
- it's not you giving Him your life; but about Him giving you His!

3. "Say the sinner's prayer"
- not an issue with confession or prayer, but of trusting.
- The danger is that one trusts in a prayer instead of trusting Christ.

4. "Let Jesus into your heart"
- This comes from a misunderstanding of Rev 3:20.
- Rev 3:20 was written to the Church (believers, already saved) as explicitly stated in the text, not to unbelievers.
- This verse is about obedience to the Spirit unto fellowship, not about salvation.


The sources used for this study were:
·The Bible
·Dr. Larry Moyer
·John Gills
·FaithFaith.org (couldn't find the name of the author)

You've got part of the Gospel, but there's more. If you look through the gospels you'll find that Jesus refers to the "Gospel of the Kingdom." While His death and resurrection are a part of the Gospel there is more to it. There's an entire kingdom aspect to it that is often overlooked. While I disagree with parts of what you posted, I'd say Jesus' statement,

KJV Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luk 14:33 KJV)

does require one to give their life to Christ. I'd also disagree with your position on works but that's another thread. Personally, I see it as a, we can't see the forest for the trees issue.' Typically Christians are so focused on the subject of salvation that they miss the big picture, the Kingdom of God.

 

[Butch5]

I agree. But keeping His commands is proof of saving Faith in a person, not the way a person is saved.
It is the product, not the producer.
Faith in Christ is the Way. Faithfulness to His commands is the proof.

Again, this thread was about the Gospel, not discipleship.
It is about evangelism, not training up the Body in righteousness.
It is not possible to train up an unsaved person in righteousness. They need Christ first.

Hi Sophia,

Without derailing the thread into a works thread, I'd just like to present some food for thought. The Israelites entered into a covenant with God, the Mosaic Law. They were required to obey the terms of the covenant that They agreed to. If they didn't they were rejected. In 1 Corinthians Paul tells the Corinthian Christians,



KJV 1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. {followed...: or, went with them}
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. {our...: Gr. our figures}
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. (1Co 10:1-11 KJV)

Paul says they were written for our admonition. If they didn't abide by the terms of the covenant that they agreed to they were rejected. It would seem Paul is advising the Corinthian Christians that the same thing could happen to them. From this it would seem that work do play a role in salvation.

 

[Hizikyah]

For me, to simplify, the "gospel" is the Message that Messiah brought.

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."


John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Revelation 19:13-15:, "And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh."

The word that I have spoken

out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

 

[Hizikyah]

But satan seems to have blinded the minds of the people into accepting a "story about Him" effectively destroying
(in the minds of many), what HE SAID.


Matt 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away."

Matt 24:24-25, "For there will arise false messiahs and false prophets who will show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they would deceive the very elect. Behold, I have warned you beforehand!"

For me, to simplify, the "gospel" is the Message that Messiah brought.

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."


John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Revelation 19:13-15:, "And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh."

The word that I have spoken

out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

 

[john832]

1 John 2:1,2,3
The Day of Atonement is past. It was the Day when the Lord died for His People. Atonement is complete in Christ.
Obeying the commands is not atonement, but love for our Saviour and God, through the power and working of His Spirit within us.

No, the Day of Atonement has not come.

What two events are symbolized by this Feast Day?

Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

This part has occurred, Christ has been the sacrifice for all. The next part has not...

Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Lev 16:15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

Christ presented Himself to the Father on the day of the Wave Sheaf (Lev 23:9-14) and completed this part but all nations have not been brought into the bond of the Covenant, yet...

Eze 20:37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

Israel first, then the Gentiles through Israel...

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

This occurs when?

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Now if you think the wolves in our society are dwelling peacefully with the lambs and little children are playing with lions and tigers, the perhaps you need to take the goggles off.

The second part of the Day of Atonement does not occur until Christ returns...

Lev 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Lev 16:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

The Devil has not had the responsibility for sin laid on him yet and He ahs not been banished but he will be...

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The angel being the fit man and the incarceration is typed by the wilderness. Wilderness in Lev 16 comes from this word...

H4057

מִדְבָּר
midbâr
mid-bawr'
From H1696 in the sense of driving; a pasture (that is, open field, whither cattle are driven); by implication a desert; also speech (including its organs): - desert, south, speech, wilderness.
Total KJV occurrences: 271

There are those who try to fit the live goat into Christ but it just doesn't work. Christ was not let go alive into the wilderness, but rather as the first goat, He was killed and paid the death penalty for all of mankind...

Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

One lot for the Eternal (the One who became Jesus Christ), the other for the Azazel. Scapegoat is a poor translation here, it means an innocent one tricked into paying the price for the guilty. Notice verse 21...

Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The responsibility for sin is laid onto this goat and it bears that responsibility (as the author of sin) alive, into the wilderness.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

But satan seems to have blinded the minds of the people into accepting a "story about Him" effectively destroying
(in the minds of many), what HE SAID.


Matt 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away."

Matt 24:24-25, "For there will arise false messiahs and false prophets who will show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they would deceive the very elect. Behold, I have warned you beforehand!"

Yes but not all have ears to hear what the Spirit says in the law, for the veil of the flesh remains.

 

[gzusfrk]

The Gospel starts at mark 1:1, and includes the 27 letters we call The New Testament.

 

[john832]

The Gospel starts at mark 1:1, and includes the 27 letters we call The New Testament.

Nope, it starts at Gen 1:1...

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

 

[Sophia]

But satan seems to have blinded the minds of the people into accepting a "story about Him" effectively destroying
(in the minds of many), what HE SAID.


Matt 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away."

Matt 24:24-25, "For there will arise false messiahs and false prophets who will show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they would deceive the very elect. Behold, I have warned you beforehand!"

If the "story about Him" is not what we share to the lost, then what is the Gospel we share? The Gospel is defined for us in the Word, and is the life, sacrifice, and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-8).
The story is TRUE, not a lie from Satan. The Bible even shows us evidence of it's truth, as His burial proves His death, and the 500+ witnesses prove He rose from the dead.
This is the message that Stephen told the Jews, and was killed for it. This is the message Paul brought to the Gentiles, and was beaten and jailed for it.

If the Good News of the life and work of Christ is not the Gospel that saves, then what is?
All the truth of Scripture leads up to, supports, explains, and declares the Good News, and also shows us it's power over sin, and the results (including the change in our lives, the way the Gospel affects the world, and also the future inheritance).

We bring Living Water to the lost,
milk to the newborns,
and meat to the mature.

I see many Christians debating with unbelievers about meaty topics, things the lost cannot understand, and cause them to choke before they are even born.

 

[Butch5]

If the "story about Him" is not what we share to the lost, then what is the Gospel we share? The Gospel is defined for us in the Word, and is the life, sacrifice, and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-8).
The story is TRUE, not a lie from Satan. The Bible even shows us evidence of it's truth, as His burial proves His death, and the 500+ witnesses prove He rose from the dead.
This is the message that Stephen told the Jews, and was killed for it. This is the message Paul brought to the Gentiles, and was beaten and jailed for it.

If the Good News of the life and work of Christ is not the Gospel that saves, then what is?
All the truth of Scripture leads up to, supports, explains, and declares the Good News, and also shows us it's power over sin, and the results (including the change in our lives, the way the Gospel affects the world, and also the future inheritance).

We bring Living Water to the lost,
milk to the newborns,
and meat to the mature.

I see many Christians debating with unbelievers about meaty topics, things the lost cannot understand, and cause them to choke before they are even born.

Hi Sophia,

KJV Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. (Mat 4:23 KJV)

Would you agree that Jesus is the one who brought the Gospel? Jesus didn't go around preaching to the Jews, believe that I'm going to die for your sins and you'll be saved. He preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. Those Jews knew the promises of the Kingdom and they knew that it included but was not limited to their Messiah suffering for their sins.

If we don't preach the entire Gospel what do we have to offer those who decide to follow Christ? What happens next? What's the benefit? There is much more to the Gospel.

 

[The_highwayman]

The nearly to good to be true Gospel is:
You are saved by God's grace and through your faith and not by the law or works.
God made Jesus Sin and made you his righteous through what Christ did on the cross and through his shed blood.

Anything that adds to this is self righteousness and will not get you saved and suggests what Jesus did on the cross was not enough.

 

[Sophia]

Hi Sophia,

KJV Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. (Mat 4:23 KJV)

Would you agree that Jesus is the one who brought the Gospel? Jesus didn't go around preaching to the Jews, believe that I'm going to die for your sins and you'll be saved. He preached the Gospel of the Kingdom. Those Jews knew the promises of the Kingdom and they knew that it included but was not limited to their Messiah suffering for their sins.

If we don't preach the entire Gospel what do we have to offer those who decide to follow Christ? What happens next? What's the benefit? There is much more to the Gospel.

According to what I am reading in the Epistles, the Good News of the Kingdom is part of, but not the whole of, the Good News of Salvation.
Jesus preached that the Kingdom is near. This is what you are saying the Gospel is, but the Apostles define it as more, not less, as you seem to think I'm saying.
Jesus preached that the Kingdom is available to those who believe Him, and is not available to those who have sin, and also that all have sin.
Jesus died and rose again, and made sinlessness available to all who believe.
Jesus preached the Good News of the Kingdom soon to come, and preached the Good News of how it is available, and LIVED IT OUT to make it available.
Kingdom Now theology places emphasis on belief in the Kingdom rather than belief in Christ (among many other falsehoods). We aren't saved by believing in a coming Kingdom, even though that is Good News and truth,
but we are saved by belief in Christ, who is the Way into the Kingdom.

Christ did bring the Gospel, in His Person, in His Word (teachings), and in Deed (His perfection, sacrifice, and resurrection).
The Kingdom is the result, not the catalyst.

When we define the Gospel, we need to do so by the verses that say "and this is the Gospel:" and "the Gospel, which is:", not by just associating it as words that are in verses that have the word "gospel" in them.

Living out the Gospel is the very expression of belief and Faith. If a person does not go and live Christlike, can they really claim to believe in Him, have His Spirit within them, and trust that His Way is good?
I think this may be what you are talking about: obeying the Gospel.
When we preach the Gospel to the lost, we need to declare what the Gospel is first. Then upon their acceptance, we disciple them, showing them how to live out the Gospel in their lives.
Obedience is not the Good News, but is the Calling we receive THROUGH the Gospel.

I couldn't figure out if you were proposing Kingdom Now theology, or the Hebrew Roots/SDA/Miqra type theology.
If you weren't proposing any of those, then I think you misunderstood my study, and/or I misunderstood your posts.

 

[psychomom]

didn't God first show us His Gospel in Gen 3:15?

 

[SeaBass]

1 Pet 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

2 Thess 1:8 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

Rom 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel."

The gospel is to be obeyed else one be lost.

2 Thes 2:14 "Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."

The gospel is how men are called.

Col 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

One must remain in the gospel or be lost, be without hope.

 

[Sophia]

didn't God first show us His Gospel in Gen 3:15?

Yes, and amen.

I would even add that Faith in that promise has always brought people to salvation, and to righteousness. But that might be going off topic.

 

[psychomom]

Yes, and amen.

I would even add that Faith in that promise has always brought people to salvation, and to righteousness. But that might be going off topic.

i don't think so.
after all, that's what the Gospel is really all about!

 

[Sophia]

1 Pet 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

2 Thess 1:8 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

Rom 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel."

The gospel is to be obeyed else one be lost.

2 Thes 2:14 "Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."

The gospel is how men are called.

Col 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

One must remain in the gospel or be lost, be without hope.

But how can one obey what one does not hear?
Sorry, but obedience of the Gospel is AFTER belief. Like I said in the OP, this study wasn't about maintaining salvation (which is all you ever seem to want to talk about), but about exactly WHAT the Gospel is.

If the Gospel is "obeying the Gospel"... then what is the Gospel?
Is the Gospel the commands?
That is salvation by works.
Is the Gospel the life and work of Christ?
That is salvation of God.

 

[SeaBass]

But how can one obey what one does not hear?
Sorry, but obedience of the Gospel is AFTER belief. Like I said in the OP, this study wasn't about maintaining salvation (which is all you ever seem to want to talk about), but about exactly WHAT the Gospel is.

If the Gospel is "obeying the Gospel"... then what is the Gospel?
Is the Gospel the commands?
That is salvation by works.
Is the Gospel the life and work of Christ?
That is salvation of God.

Rom 10:14 one cannot believe (obey) what he has not heard but upon hearing one obeys by believing, repenting, confessing and being baptized.

Believing is obeying....Jn 3:36 ASV "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."

"Believeth" is contrasted to "obeyeth not" so those that believe obey and those they do not believe obey not.

 

[Sophia]

Rom 10:14 one cannot believe (obey) what he has not heard but upon hearing one obeys by believing, repenting, confessing and being baptized.

Believing is obeying....Jn 3:36 ASV "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."

"Believeth" is contrasted to "obeyeth not" so those that believe obey and those they do not believe obey not.

Those Scriptures are true, and even some of your implications, but you are still missing what my points are in favor of pushing salvation through maintainance. Nothing I have said even counters that issue, as I am intentionally ignoring it to not have this debate with you... again,
and left all those lines open for your line of interpretation. I intentionally did not step on your toes in the OP study, and yet you still push your agenda.

The Gospel is not the set of rules, but the Way we are able to be obedient. Don't put the horse before the cart. A person cannot obey WITHOUT belief in the person and work of Christ. If one disobeys the person and work of Christ, it is unbelief.
See, agreement. And yet you will not be satisfied until I say that salvation is by works.

 

[notuptome]

Don't forget Romans 1:18 The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger