What examples of double fulfillments of prophecy exists in the OT alone?

[Chester]

ever heard of typology friend. Hosea was not even giving a prophecy in the text. The exodus was history when Hosea was written.

Backtrack, foot in mouth, I get what you are saying! LOL!

I guess I was speaking about "double meaning/interpretation" for a text. But you are specifically talking about "prophecy," and I didn't pay enough attention to the wording.

So, you are right, and I was wrong!

But then the text in Hosea 11:1 clearly does have a double interpretation, but it is not a double prophecy.

 

[pottersclay]

And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

The text in Matthew only says he is quoting from a prophet. A better translation for "fulfilled" is "completed".

Book of Hosea written around
II. DATE :790-686 B.C.
https://bible.org/article/introduction-book-hosea

Date of Exodus was around 1450 BC
https://www.google.com/search?q=date+of+the+exodus&biw=1163&bih=452&sxsrf=ALeKk02PZ8qWeqpm6TXWW1-PM6VTS7fwug:1626700989238&ei=vXz1YIP8DdLb-wTbvJnQBg&oq=date+of+the+exodus&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgUILhCRAjoFCAAQkQI6CAguELEDEIMBOggILhDHARCjAjoLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6CggAEIcCELEDEBQ6DgguELEDEIMBEMcBEKMCOgQILhBDOgcIABCxAxBDOgUILhCxAzoFCAAQsQM6BQgAEMkDOggIABCxAxCDAUoECEEYAFDzuQZYntMGYOnbBmgAcAJ4AIABtwKIAaYTkgEIMC4xNy4xLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6wAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjDzvm0ne_xAhXS7Z4KHVteBmoQ4dUDCA4&uact=5

Thus Hosea was speaking about History, not even a prophecy. One can not have dual fulfillment of a prophecy that is history, not a prophecy.

If everything testifies of the christ ....then it can.

Mary and joseph fled to Egypt for safety sake led by the Holy Spirit.
Israel and the exodus.

 

[Journeyman]

Hosea was talking about Israel, not a messianic prophecy. Matthew was quoting from Memory.
He was thinking about Jesus leaving Egypt and thought about a similar situation.

Matthew was quoting the OT Prophet. I understand after that, the chapter doesn't fit the Messiah himself, but the OT is written that way because God's people, despite our failings, become one with him. Like this,


And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 2Sam.7:12-13

This is Messianic.

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 2Sam.7:14-15

This is about others.

 

[TheLearner]

Matthew was quoting the OT Prophet. I understand after that, the chapter doesn't fit the Messiah himself, but the OT is written that way because God's people, despite our failings, become one with him. Like this,


And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 2Sam.7:12-13

This is Messianic.

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 2Sam.7:14-15

This is about others.

And yet, the prophet was not making a prophecy. He is recalling a historical event that happened 700 years before Hosea existed.

I guess you over looked:
"Pardes" refers to (types of) approaches to biblical exegesis in rabbinic Judaism or to interpretation of text in Torah study. The term, sometimes also rendered PaRDeS, is an acronym formed from the initials of the following four approaches:

Peshat (פְּשָׁט‎) – "surface" ("straight") or the literal (direct) meaning.[1]
Remez (רֶמֶז‎) – "hints" or the deep (allegoric: hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond just the literal sense.
Derash (דְּרַשׁ‎) – from Hebrew darash: "inquire" ("seek") – the comparative (midrashic) meaning, as given through similar occurrences.
Sod (סוֹד‎) (pronounced with a long O as in 'lore') – "secret" ("mystery") or the esoteric/mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.
Each type of Pardes interpretation examines the extended meaning of a text.

I lost the link, too many pages open.

 

[TheLearner]

If everything testifies of the christ ....then it can.

Mary and joseph fled to Egypt for safety sake led by the Holy Spirit.
Israel and the exodus.

Hosea was written about a historical event 700 years before. It was not a prophecy.

Hosea 11
Good News Translation
God's Love for His Rebellious People
11 The Lord says,

“When Israel was a child, I loved him
and called him out of Egypt as my son.[a]
2 But the more I called to him,
the more he turned away from me.[c]
My people sacrificed to Baal;
they burned incense to idols.
3 Yet I was the one who taught Israel to walk.
I took my people up in my arms,[d]
but they did not acknowledge that I took care of them.
4 I drew them to me with affection and love.
I picked them up and held them to my cheek;
I bent down to them and fed them

As you can see the first four verses are history.

 

[Journeyman]

And yet, the prophet was not making a prophecy.

According to Matthew, he was, whether he knew it or not.

 

[TheLearner]

According to Matthew, he was, whether he knew it or not.

So, Matthew made up a prophecy where there was not one. smile

 

[TheLearner]

And yet, the prophet was not making a prophecy. He is recalling a historical event that happened 700 years before Hosea existed.

I guess you over looked:
"Pardes" refers to (types of) approaches to biblical exegesis in rabbinic Judaism or to interpretation of text in Torah study. The term, sometimes also rendered PaRDeS, is an acronym formed from the initials of the following four approaches:

Peshat (פְּשָׁט‎) – "surface" ("straight") or the literal (direct) meaning.[1]
Remez (רֶמֶז‎) – "hints" or the deep (allegoric: hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond just the literal sense.
Derash (דְּרַשׁ‎) – from Hebrew darash: "inquire" ("seek") – the comparative (midrashic) meaning, as given through similar occurrences.
Sod (סוֹד‎) (pronounced with a long O as in 'lore') – "secret" ("mystery") or the esoteric/mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.
Each type of Pardes interpretation examines the extended meaning of a text.

I lost the link, too many pages open.

I think Matthew was simply using Derash from above jewish way of interpretation back in his day.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

soooo ... just ignore the words in Scripture which clearly state

that it might be fulfilled or then was fulfilled or the scripture was fulfilled or this day is this scripture fulfilled

and hold to "rabbinic Judaism" or to "interpretation of text in Torah study" ... got it

 

[Ahwatukee]

In another thread, someone brought up what was written in Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (link)

TheLearner stated the prophecy was fulfilled at the time as "the woman back then was already pregnant" (link).

Isaiah 7:14 is not double prophecy, but was specifically speaking about Mary as the virgin and the birth of Christ. No other human being that was born could be called Emmanuel, which means 'God with us.'

 

[Gibsonbfree]

Psalm 72

It was fulfilled by Solomons kingdom of Israel and will be fulfilled by Jesus future kingdom reign

 

[Gibsonbfree]

Also Psalm 2 - fulfilled by King David, Jesus first coming and when He comes 2nd time to set up kingdom and probably refers to after the 1000 year Millenium when rebellion happens.

There’s so many double prophecies in multiple ways everywhere. Damascus being made a ruinous heap happened before and some could say it happened now. God showed direct to many that so many Old Testament prophecies already fulfilled will happen again in different ways the endtimes catastrophies happen around the world.

Psalms 2
1Why are the [a]nations in an uproar [in turmoil against God],
And why do the people devise a vain and hopeless plot?
2The kings of the earth take their stand;
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and His Anointed (the Davidic King, the Messiah, the Christ), saying,
3“Let us break apart their [divine] bands [of restraint]
And cast away their cords [of control] from us.”

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Isaiah 7:14 is not double prophecy, but was specifically speaking about Mary as the virgin and the birth of Christ. No other human being that was born could be called Emmanuel, which means 'God with us.'

In agreement, Ahwatukee, that when the words were spoken God was speaking of Messiah.

Having said that, there are some who believe that the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 did not refer to Messiah and that at or near the time the words were spoken to Ahaz there was a woman who was pregnant. If that was the case, there was near fulfillment of prophecy. The near fulfillment does not negate the ultimate fulfillment ... nor does it mean that at the time the word was given to the prophet, God was not speaking of Messiah. Matthew 1:22-23 clearly indicates that Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled at the birth of Christ.

 

[Ahwatukee]

In agreement, Ahwatukee, that when the words were spoken God was speaking of Messiah.

Having said that, there are some who believe that the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 did not refer to Messiah and that at or near the time the words were spoken to Ahaz there was a woman who was pregnant. If that was the case, there was near fulfillment of prophecy. The near fulfillment does not negate the ultimate fulfillment ... nor does it mean that at the time the word was given to the prophet, God was not speaking of Messiah. Matthew 1:22-23 clearly indicates that Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled at the birth of Christ.

Well, when you factor in the fact that the child that was to be born was to be called "Immanuel" which means God with us, then it gets rid of the idea of the prophecy speaking about any other woman or child, i.e. no one else can be Emmanuel. And how many other virgin births were there? I'll venture to say, not a single one.

 

[TheLearner]

soooo ... just ignore the words in Scripture which clearly state

that it might be fulfilled or then was fulfilled or the scripture was fulfilled or this day is this scripture fulfilled

and hold to "rabbinic Judaism" or to "interpretation of text in Torah study" ... got it

Again, fulfilled can also be translated as completed. The text meets the rules of typology.

My Hebrew NT does translate as completed.

 

[TheLearner]

Isaiah 7:14 is not double prophecy, but was specifically speaking about Mary as the virgin and the birth of Christ. No other human being that was born could be called Emmanuel, which means 'God with us.'

"Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz, Isaiah’s future son, named with the same four words of the document, revealed the time frame of Israel’s and Syria’s defeat: sometime between the conception of Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz to “before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother’” (Isaiah 8:3–4). That is, Judah would be saved before Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz reached age 2, a total of less than three years, counting the child’s time in the womb. "
https://www.gotquestions.org/Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.html

 

[TheLearner]

read to here

 

[Ahwatukee]

"Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz, Isaiah’s future son, named with the same four words of the document, revealed the time frame of Israel’s and Syria’s defeat: sometime between the conception of Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz to “before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother’” (Isaiah 8:3–4). That is, Judah would be saved before Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz reached age 2, a total of less than three years, counting the child’s time in the womb. "
https://www.gotquestions.org/Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.html

Sir, no one else in the history of the world has been a virgin and given birth. And second, that child would not be called Emmanuel, which means God with us. So please, enough with trying to make Isaiah 7:14 a double fulfillment. It was a prophecy about Mary as the virgin and Jesus as Emmanuel.

I feel now that you are arguing for the just for the sake of arguing. If you want to believe in another virgin birth other than Christ to Mary, then you are free to do so.

 

[TheLearner]

Sir, no one else in the history of the world has been a virgin and given birth. And second, that child would not be called Emmanuel, which means God with us. So please, enough with trying to make Isaiah 7:14 a double fulfillment. It was a prophecy about Mary as the virgin and Jesus as Emmanuel.

I feel now that you are arguing for the just for the sake of arguing. If you want to believe in another virgin birth other than Christ to Mary, then you are free to do so.

The lady in Isaiah was not a virgin. She was married, and from the Hebrew, she was with child.

Isaiah 7:14
Easy-to-Read Version
14 But the Lord will still show you this sign:

The young woman is pregnant
and will give birth to a son.
She will name him Immanuel

Note Mary was already pregnant when Matthew quoted Isaiah.


Matthew 1:18-25

Easy-to-Read Version



The Birth of Jesus the Messiah
18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah happened. His mother Mary was engaged to marry Joseph. But before they married, he learned that she was expecting a baby. (She was pregnant by the power of the Holy Spirit.) 19 Mary’s husband, Joseph, was a good man. He did not want to cause her public disgrace, so he planned to divorce her secretly.
20 But after Joseph thought about this, an angel from the Lord came to him in a dream. The angel said, “Joseph, son of David, don’t be afraid to accept Mary to be your wife. The baby inside her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son. You will name him Jesus.[a] Give him that name because he will save his people from their sins.”
22 All this happened to make clear the full meaning of what the Lord said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will be pregnant and will give birth to a son. They will name him Immanuel.” (Immanuel means “God with us.”)
24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the Lord’s angel told him to do. He married Mary. 25 But Joseph did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And he named him Jesus.

Jesus was named Jesus, not Immanuel. What gives?

 

[TheLearner]

I am going to post three chapters. look for intertextuality among them with the NT passages that quotes them.

Isaiah 7 & 8 Hosea 11