What folks have learned via CC discussions:

[JohnDB]

I understand, because I have my own book published on line that I use as a resource,
but I have no idea whether anyone else ever finds and uses it.

Re your questions: A man named Simon from Cyrene. I have no idea what it means,
but I also wanna die like Grandpa.

The silphium....

It's an abortifacient (very effective "morning after pill") and a form of viagra

Cyrene was the chief exporter of silphium for the entire Roman Empire. That's why it's on their money.
And a Jewish man from Cyrene, who is in the Spice/herb market in the most prime spot.....
Then the soldier who is concerned his wife might be cheating on him....and the guys like this Simon who sell this Silphium are the ones make it possible.

But now we have the abortionist carrying the cross for Jesus....helping to kill an innocent man.

The picture is very very disturbing....

Now that you know.

 

[GWH]

The silphium....

It's an abortifacient (very effective "morning after pill") and a form of viagra

Cyrene was the chief exporter of silphium for the entire Roman Empire. That's why it's on their money.
And a Jewish man from Cyrene, who is in the Spice/herb market in the most prime spot.....
Then the soldier who is concerned his wife might be cheating on him....and the guys like this Simon who sell this Silphium are the ones make it possible.

But now we have the abortionist carrying the cross for Jesus....helping to kill an innocent man.

The picture is very very disturbing....

Now that you know.

Interesting, but I seriously doubt Matthew meant any of that about silphium,
although Jewish merchants may have been involved in its sale.

Anyway, I guess I can count that as an example of sharing something learned via CC discussions.

 

[Anchorite]

And with the internet.... I'm kinda surprised about some of the things I still see posted on YouTube with internet preachers.....I know that a lot of them are largely ignored.
Nobody really watches sermons on YouTube.....not really. I've been "in the booth" broadcasting. We can see live the location of everyone watching as they watch us. We spend thousands to broadcast the sermons. Cameras, editing, the whole shebang. 3-8 unique IP clicks each week. That's it. With a congregation of over 2,000.

I have noticed a similar low number of views and comments on YouTube sermon videos by local churches.

But there are huge numbers of views and comments on sermon videos by pastors who are more famous.

If a church member attends a sermon in the church, there is probably no reason to watch it again on YouTube.

People who are seeking a church to attend may want to watch YouTube videos of sermons.

YouTube sermon videos should have interesting titles and be promoted on social media.

 

[Anchorite]

The silphium....

It's an abortifacient (very effective "morning after pill") and a form of viagra

Cyrene was the chief exporter of silphium for the entire Roman Empire. That's why it's on their money.
And a Jewish man from Cyrene, who is in the Spice/herb market in the most prime spot.....
Then the soldier who is concerned his wife might be cheating on him....and the guys like this Simon who sell this Silphium are the ones make it possible.

But now we have the abortionist carrying the cross for Jesus....helping to kill an innocent man.

The picture is very very disturbing....

Now that you know.

What makes you think that Simon of Cyrene was an abortionist, a seller of silphium?

Silphium was a highly prized plant from ancient North Africa, used as a seasoning, perfume, medicine (especially as a contraceptive and aphrodisiac), and even a livestock feed. So valuable, it was worth its weight in gold and stamped on coins. It is believed to have gone extinct around the 1st century AD, due to overharvesting, though its exact identity is debated.

 

[JohnDB]

What makes you think that Simon of Cyrene was an abortionist, a seller of silphium?

Silphium was a highly prized plant from ancient North Africa, used as a seasoning, perfume, medicine (especially as a contraceptive and aphrodisiac), and even a livestock feed. So valuable, it was worth its weight in gold and stamped on coins. It is believed to have gone extinct around the 1st century AD, due to overharvesting, though its exact identity is debated.

The facts are overwhelming....even if understated in many online sources today.

The spice market location vx via de la crusa.
"Of Cyrene"
3 of the 4 gospels include Simon by name (meaning very important 3x recorded action)and more importantly the city he was known to be from.....why mention him if he and his city location is not important? It's only $100-$1,000 to include him by name and city in the cost of writing the gospels out. (Paper and ink were expensive)

The silphium was stamped on Cyrene's own minted money....it was that important to their economy.
Over harvested to extinction.....
Worth its weight in gold.....(saffron was another spice just as expensive...but still around today)
WHY would someone pay that much for an ineffective herb?
Unless they were desperate for an abortion because they were cheating on their husband and going to be divorced/killed for being unfaithful.

To say someone was from Cyrene was to say they were involved in the silphium trade....just like being from other places meant you were involved in other trades....like Ephesus was known for banking and Dianna worship. This is scripture writing. A very very compact form of writing where the reader needs to assume some details left unwritten....because in that day and time literally everyone knew those details...which is not so true 2,000 years later.

Cesarea Phillipi was known for the Pan temple and the world's largest outdoor orgy.

If a Jew lived in Nazareth it was likely he worked in Sepphoris in some fashion.


This silphium and Simon from Cyrene is a very unpopular and highly politically charged subject. The words with the background information draw a vivid picture of the action and God's thoughts on the subjects...which do not match the political climate the world currently holds.

 

[JohnDB]

The way of the cross....if you ever walk it....kinda eye opening in a lot of ways.

The walk, carrying your cross, was all about humiliation and optics.

Tyler Robinson is currently going through something similar with the perp walk, the mugshots, the televised trial....
But during that day and time....a lot more localized.
most people hate the standing up on stage...and if you are being paraded about but accused or convicted of a crime worthy of the worst punishment your government has to offer....well....you would just rather NOT.
But the Way of the Cross is "in your face" type parading....the streets are crowded EVERY DAY....and extremely narrow except right in front of the Gate. Everyone gets to see your sad face, your "I've lost all hope" face, or just dirty, beaten and ugly face. No winning smile, no "please love me" type face and clothes.....

Like I said....humiliation.

The spice market is on the last turn before the big, wide section....and it is a fair piece to the bus terminal (place of the skull....a crossroads outside the inner city). There was no way Jesus was going to be physically able to carry the beam. What was the guard supposed to do? Cant carry it for him...he's a guard. Cant beat Jesus to death; boss said crucify him. "Get that sorry, Jewish, POS abortion pharmacist that's way too wealthy for my comfort to do it....that fits. Maybe this will go quicker and I can get home in time for a hot supper. "

 

[Anchorite]

The facts are overwhelming....even if understated in many online sources today.

To say someone was from Cyrene was to say they were involved in the silphium trade....just like being from other places meant you were involved in other trades....like Ephesus was known for banking and Dianna worship. This is scripture writing. A very very compact form of writing where the reader needs to assume some details left unwritten....because in that day and time literally everyone knew those details...which is not so true 2,000 years later.


This silphium and Simon from Cyrene is a very unpopular and highly politically charged subject. The words with the background information draw a vivid picture of the action and God's thoughts on the subjects...which do not match the political climate the world currently holds.

The facts are not overwhelming. You are straining to present your case. You call scripture compact writing, then you try to unpack it according to your bias.

You continue to make unwarranted assumptions.

To live in a city does not necessarily mean you support or are involved in what the city is known for. Not every single person in Ephesus was a banker or worshiper of Diana.

If Simon of Cyrene was actually involved in silphium growing or trade, the scriptures could easily have stated this clearly.

You ignore how silphium was also used as seasoning and perfume and aphrodisiac.

Are you in favor of abortion? Are you trying to imply that God supports abortion and abortion inducing drugs?

 

[JohnDB]

The facts are not overwhelming. You are straining to present your case. You call scripture compact writing, then you try to unpack it according to your bias.

You continue to make unwarranted assumptions.

To live in a city does not necessarily mean you support or are involved in what the city is known for. Not every single person in Ephesus was a banker or worshiper of Diana.

If Simon of Cyrene was actually involved in silphium growing or trade, the scriptures could easily have stated this clearly.

You ignore how silphium was also used as seasoning and perfume and aphrodisiac.

Are you in favor of abortion? Are you trying to imply that God supports abortion and abortion inducing drugs?

God is NOT in favor of abortion....just the opposite.
The odor of silphium was NOT pleasant or strong...just recognizable (according to ancient records)
And by saying Simon of Cyrene was co-opted by the soldiers in the immediate area of the spice market....ummm....the evidence is sky high that Simon was indeed involved in the trade of silphium.

I'm anything but in favor of abortion....I'm constantly bemoaning abortion and even the use of birth control of any sort as we need the children. We currently have a baby crisis and are going to have a cultural nationwide collapse within 5 years. IOW we are going to pay a very real price here in the USA and other Westernized nations for our practice of abortions and birth control.

ONLY God Grant's and gives life. Abortion murders life in the womb.

God or Jesus could have said "thou shalt not commit abortion" except there is no word for it in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or Latin.

The EASIEST, fastest, quickest, way to say Simon was involved in the trade of Silphium was to say "Simon of Cyrene" and since readers interested would know that the way of the cross was right by the spice market....its not like it's a stretch whatsoever. And it's not like Simon of Cyrene became a believer afterwards now is it?

You may be in favor of abortion....I dont know. God is not....and Simon of Cyrene became a horror story in my world.
But I know God is not....the words forming an outstanding picture

 

[Anchorite]

And by saying Simon of Cyrene was co-opted by the soldiers in the immediate area of the spice market....ummm....the evidence is sky high that Simon was indeed involved in the trade of silphium.

The EASIEST, fastest, quickest, way to say Simon was involved in the trade of Silphium was to say "Simon of Cyrene" and since readers interested would know that the way of the cross was right by the spice market....its not like it's a stretch whatsoever. And it's not like Simon of Cyrene became a believer afterwards now is it?

Simon of Cyrene became a horror story in my world.

Scriptures could have stated “Simon of Cyrene, seller of silphium”, but it does not.

You have constructed a theory, or as you say, a horror story, based on unfounded assumptions.

If you said you are from Chicago, I cannot assume you butcher hogs.

Lydia is called a seller of purple in scripture. So Simon of Cyrene could have been called a seller of silphium. But he is not so designated. If God considered it important that it be explicitly known that Simon of Cyrene sold silphium, God would have added that little detail.

Acts 16:14

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

 

[JohnDB]

Scriptures could have stated “Simon of Cyrene, seller of silphium”, but it does not.

You have constructed a theory, or as you say, a horror story, based on unfounded assumptions.

If you said you are from Chicago, I cannot assume you butcher hogs.

Lydia is called a seller of purple in scripture. So Simon of Cyrene could have been called a seller of silphium. But he is not so designated. If God considered it important that it be explicitly known that Simon of Cyrene sold silphium, God would have added that little detail.

Acts 16:14

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

The lady Lydia has no city and is written about by a Greek....not a Jew. Because Luke wrote Acts....he also wrote the Gospel of Luke....but Mark(Simon/Peter) and Matthew were around for Luke to ask.

It's an idiom of speech....and trying to use Western, American idioms (or lack of) to apply to a culture on the other side of the planet 2,000 years ago in an ancient language that was translated through 2 to 3 languages....and YOU are asking too much from the text.
(Aramaic/Hebrew to Koine Greek to Latin to English.....gonna have some issues)

Chicago is a huge city....
But to believe that you didn't know what a sausage was in Chicago would be past credibility....from hot dogs to some of the best sausages out of St Louis....
Chicago has the commodity exchange....also some great bread. Lots of great "hole in the wall" type restaurants.
And most drive through the miles upon miles of wind farms with the huge blades and turbines to get there.

Pig slaughter? Didnt think they still did that there. Trains maybe, great lakes, lake effect snow....there are the things I think about for Chicago. (Been there a few times)

 

[GWH]

Thanks to those who have shared examples of how participation on CC has blessed your life with new or amended understanding of God's Word. Here is another example from me.

As those who have interacted with me on CC know, my main sermon is about the need for Christian unity via agreement about the essential Gospel or Creed. Discussions have prompted me to fine tune my five-point version of the Creed/GRFS by adding a word here and there, but the largest addition and amendment of my belief was the following sixth point per Rom. 1:20, which I did recently after someone prompted the insight of connecting it with 2Thes. 2:10-13:

6. This creed summarizes revelation of the NT Gospel/Truth (Matt. 26:13, John 14:6), which fulfilled the OT revelation (Matt. 5:17, John 19:30, Heb. 7:11-10:10) and culminates the search for salvation by souls who know only general revelation (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-16, Matt. 7:12). Seeking begins when souls love truth/repent of false beliefs (2Thes. 2:10&13, Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which is the Way to eternal life God wills, who is the Lord Jesus (Matt. 7:14, John 1:14, 4:24, 14:6). Lacking this love leads to believing lies and debauchery (Gen. 3:1-7, Matt. 7:6, Rom. 1:18&25-26, 2Thes. 2:11-12).

Does anyone else have an example of learning GW, gaining insight and amending belief due to discussion on CC?

Let us get back on track per the OP, which was:

Christian Chat exists for the purpose of providing Christians the opportunity of learning from one another as they discuss their understanding of Scripture. I think it might be interesting and edifying for us all to share significant truths we have learned that have caused us to amend some belief(s).

For example, being raised in a Baptist church from infancy, I had always believed that souls are saved by faith or trusting in Jesus as Savior, but while discussing the role of faith and works regarding salvation after joining CC, I gained the following insight:

There is no qualitative difference between a soul's/sinner's faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and a saint's/saved sinner's faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living, but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s lifetime. (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17)

Later I shared another insight prompted by someone on CC which involved connecting Rom. 1:20 with 2Thes. 2:10-13. I shared my amended belief by adding this sixth point to the Creed I propose:

6. This creed summarizes revelation of the NT Gospel/Truth (Matt. 26:13, John 14:6), which fulfilled the OT revelation (Matt. 5:17, John 19:30, Heb. 7:11-10:10) and culminates the search for salvation by souls who know only general revelation (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-16, Matt. 7:12). Seeking begins when souls love truth/repent of false beliefs (2Thes. 2:10&13, Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which is the Way to eternal life God wills, who is the Lord Jesus (Matt. 7:14, John 1:14, 4:24, 14:6). Lacking this love leads to believing lies and debauchery (Gen. 3:1-7, Matt. 7:6, Rom. 1:18&25-26, 2Thes. 2:11-12).

Does anyone else have an example of learning GW, gaining insight and amending belief due to discussion on CC?
Thanks for sharing it!

 

[ZNP]

Let us get back on track per the OP, which was:

Christian Chat exists for the purpose of providing Christians the opportunity of learning from one another as they discuss their understanding of Scripture. I think it might be interesting and edifying for us all to share significant truths we have learned that have caused us to amend some belief(s).

For example, being raised in a Baptist church from infancy, I had always believed that souls are saved by faith or trusting in Jesus as Savior, but while discussing the role of faith and works regarding salvation after joining CC, I gained the following insight:

There is no qualitative difference between a soul's/sinner's faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and a saint's/saved sinner's faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living, but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s lifetime. (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17)

Later I shared another insight prompted by someone on CC which involved connecting Rom. 1:20 with 2Thes. 2:10-13. I shared my amended belief by adding this sixth point to the Creed I propose:

6. This creed summarizes revelation of the NT Gospel/Truth (Matt. 26:13, John 14:6), which fulfilled the OT revelation (Matt. 5:17, John 19:30, Heb. 7:11-10:10) and culminates the search for salvation by souls who know only general revelation (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-16, Matt. 7:12). Seeking begins when souls love truth/repent of false beliefs (2Thes. 2:10&13, Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which is the Way to eternal life God wills, who is the Lord Jesus (Matt. 7:14, John 1:14, 4:24, 14:6). Lacking this love leads to believing lies and debauchery (Gen. 3:1-7, Matt. 7:6, Rom. 1:18&25-26, 2Thes. 2:11-12).

Does anyone else have an example of learning GW, gaining insight and amending belief due to discussion on CC?
Thanks for sharing it!

The lessons that I have learned daily from Christian chat.

1. When Jesus returns and settles accounts and the one guy who had buried his talent is rebuked he is told he should have gone and put the money in the bank. I was taught that "the bank" referred to sharing it with other believers. I feel that is what is taking place on CC and the interest that the Lord gets is that what you share grows. Some have mentioned the "attacks" and they are more like challenges, questions, disagreements, etc. Those have caused me to go back to the word, dig in more, and more. So although in the majority of cases it is not what the person challenging me shared that I learn, but in taking that challenge back to the Lord and digging deeper into the word. Yes, it can turn into a multi page debate, but the bottom line my understanding has grown and deepened. The goal is not to win the debate, it is not to change someone else's mind, the goal is that my understanding and faith grows.

2. The second lesson is quite similar which is that you discover how things you assumed all Christians knew and believed is wrong. So a big lesson is the understanding you get on how others perceive the word of God and understand it.

3. The third big lesson I have learned is from my blog. My wife was teaching vacation Bible school this summer and was telling me about the "lessons" and there was nothing about the Bible. Every day they were using various science demonstrations as the lesson, puzzles, and other games to keep the kids entertained and occupied. As a kid I always wondered what was in the Bible, no one would talk about the book, and when I went to church I assumed at least they would talk about it and Sunday school didn't and so I stayed for the sermons and all he talked about was the Vietnam war. So when I made the title to my blog "summary of Bible references on..." I assumed that would filter out everyone who was not interested in the Bible, which based on my experience in much of Christianity was just about everyone. I thought maybe ten other people would read that blog. Instead there are 853,000 and I have averaged 433 new visitors a day (3,000 new visitors a week, every week), since starting this in 2021. How many churches have trouble getting five or ten visitors a week? The one thing we have that no one else has is the Bible. If people would simply share the Bible without all the stuff people can get from school or TV, then everyone interested in knowing what is the bible would visit.

 

[ZNP]

Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. 9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

 

[GWH]

The lessons that I have learned daily from Christian chat.

1. When Jesus returns and settles accounts and the one guy who had buried his talent is rebuked he is told he should have gone and put the money in the bank. I was taught that "the bank" referred to sharing it with other believers. I feel that is what is taking place on CC and the interest that the Lord gets is that what you share grows. Some have mentioned the "attacks" and they are more like challenges, questions, disagreements, etc. Those have caused me to go back to the word, dig in more, and more. So although in the majority of cases it is not what the person challenging me shared that I learn, but in taking that challenge back to the Lord and digging deeper into the word. Yes, it can turn into a multi page debate, but the bottom line my understanding has grown and deepened. The goal is not to win the debate, it is not to change someone else's mind, the goal is that my understanding and faith grows.

2. The second lesson is quite similar which is that you discover how things you assumed all Christians knew and believed is wrong. So a big lesson is the understanding you get on how others perceive the word of God and understand it.

3. The third big lesson I have learned is from my blog. My wife was teaching vacation Bible school this summer and was telling me about the "lessons" and there was nothing about the Bible. Every day they were using various science demonstrations as the lesson, puzzles, and other games to keep the kids entertained and occupied. As a kid I always wondered what was in the Bible, no one would talk about the book, and when I went to church I assumed at least they would talk about it and Sunday school didn't and so I stayed for the sermons and all he talked about was the Vietnam war. So when I made the title to my blog "summary of Bible references on..." I assumed that would filter out everyone who was not interested in the Bible, which based on my experience in much of Christianity was just about everyone. I thought maybe ten other people would read that blog. Instead there are 853,000 and I have averaged 433 new visitors a day (3,000 new visitors a week, every week), since starting this in 2021. How many churches have trouble getting five or ten visitors a week? The one thing we have that no one else has is the Bible. If people would simply share the Bible without all the stuff people can get from school or TV, then everyone interested in knowing what is the bible would visit.

Regarding #1&2, I have had the same experience/learning.
Although/because I was active in Baptist churches all of my life,
I had never had discussions with folks claiming to be Christian who believed apparent heresies,
although I had debated and been attacked by acknowledged atheists on the Army AKO forum for a year.

One of my goals is getting to the bottom line and ending discussion instead of succumbing to the temptation to argue.
I appreciate your verse about freely receiving/giving. I have a website, but I have no idea how many read it.

 

[ZNP]

Regarding #1&2, I have had the same experience/learning.
Although/because I was active in Baptist churches all of my life,
I had never had discussions with folks claiming to be Christian who believed apparent heresies,
although I had debated and been attacked by acknowledged atheists on the Army AKO forum for a year.

One of my goals is getting to the bottom line and ending discussion instead of succumbing to the temptation to argue.
I appreciate your verse about freely receiving/giving. I have a website, but I have no idea how many read it.

I have found that to be an elusive goal. It is not in my control when others feel it is time to end discussion. So my goal is to get something and usually I get the most from those that disagree with me. Once I understand why they disagree I can then take that to the Lord and it is very helpful for me to get a fuller picture.

 

[dkontner]

One thing I learned for sure, modern day Pharisees and Sadducees do exist.

 

[Churchgoer]

Another thing is you can't win over people by debate.
But you can have fun debating.

 

[dkontner]

Another thing is you can't win over people by debate.

No, we can't. Jesus saves. No one else can do that. It's sobering

 

[GWH]

Another thing is you can't win over people by debate.
But you can have fun debating.

Well, I enjoy learning, and I participate in debating, but we should not have fun arguing (2Tim. 2:24).

 

[cv5]

Christian Chat exists for the purpose of providing Christians the opportunity of learning from one another as they discuss their understanding of Scripture. I think it might be interesting and edifying for us all to share significant truths we have learned that have caused us to amend some belief(s).

For example, being raised in a Baptist church from infancy, I had always believed that souls are saved by faith or trusting in Jesus as Savior,
but while discussing the role of faith and works regarding salvation after joining CC, I gained the following insight:

There is no qualitative difference between a soul's/sinner's faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and a saint's/saved sinner's faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living, but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s lifetime. (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17)

Please share one example at a time of how participation on CC has blessed your life with new or amended understanding of God's Word.
Thanks!

The qualitative difference is that the former results in the sealing of the earnest of the Spirit. Whereas the latter results in sanctification by the Spirit.