What Gospel Do You Preach?

[Samie]

Hi crossnote;

The issue of the OP is whether faith comes before one is "in Christ". You seem to teach that people can believe while NOT "in Christ".

Scriptures say that faith cometh by hearing. "HEARING" signifies one is already spiritually alive otherwise he can't spiritually hear the call of the Spirit. And to be spiritually alive is to be "in Christ" Who is our life (Col 3:4). Therefore being "in Christ" precedes man's believing, NOT the other way around.

 

[Willie-T]

Did not Jesus, TWICE, comment on the great faith of Gentiles.... the centurion and the woman? It's doubtful either of them ever heard a Rabbi teach.

A "measure of faith" seems to be a gift God gives. When? How? I dunno.

 

[crossnote]

Hi crossnote;

The issue of the OP is whether faith comes before one is "in Christ". You seem to teach that people can believe while NOT "in Christ".

Scriptures say that faith cometh by hearing. "HEARING" signifies one is already spiritually alive otherwise he can't spiritually hear the call of the Spirit. And to be spiritually alive is to be "in Christ" Who is our life (Col 3:4). Therefore being "in Christ" precedes man's believing, NOT the other way around.

No, it's God's Word that quickens the dead, specifically the Gospel,...that was my point.

 

[Magenta]

Scriptures say that faith cometh by hearing. "HEARING" signifies one is already spiritually alive otherwise he can't spiritually hear the call of the Spirit. And to be spiritually alive is to be "in Christ" Who is our life (Col 3:4). Therefore being "in Christ" precedes man's believing, NOT the other way around.

You seem to make it sound like God cannot speak to non-believers.

 

[Samie]

The point relative to the OP I want emphasized is that being "in Christ" precedes all what those "in Christ" can do. The brand of gospel popularly preached teaches that for people to be "in Christ" they must first believe. This, to me, smells of salvation by works, instead of grace. Also, it seems not in accord with what Christ said that while NOT in Him, people can do NOTHING.

Because of Christ's life, death and resurrection, Adam and Eve and all their descendants are born "in Christ". This is all God's work FOR man, NOT an iota of human participation. But as we grow "in Christ", just like how we physically grow in our own human homes, we are given responsibilities commensurate with our spiritual level of maturity. So in this spiritual family of God. And everyone is admonished to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21), because only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.

 

[crossnote]

The point relative to the OP I want emphasized is that being "in Christ" precedes all what those "in Christ" can do. The brand of gospel popularly preached teaches that for people to be "in Christ" they must first believe. This, to me, smells of salvation by works, instead of grace. Also, it seems not in accord with what Christ said that while NOT in Him, people can do NOTHING.

Because of Christ's life, death and resurrection, Adam and Eve and all their descendants are born "in Christ". This is all God's work FOR man, NOT an iota of human participation. But as we grow "in Christ", just like how we physically grow in our own human homes, we are given responsibilities commensurate with our spiritual level of maturity. So in this spiritual family of God. And everyone is admonished to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21), because only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.

Romans 5:12,14 KJVS
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: [14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Or are you a universalist where everyone is saved because all Adam's descendants are born "in Christ"?

 

[Samie]

Hi crossnote;

Let's go to v18:

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

But only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5). When Christ returns to reward every man according to what each has done (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12), those whose names are found written in the book of life will be rewarded with life eternal and ushered into the heavenly portals (Rev 21:27). All others will suffer the wrath of God, and finally, thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

 

[JGIG]

Believing is exercising faith. Faith is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and only those "in Christ" can bear fruit. Those NOT "in Christ" cannot bear fruit, and therefore have no faith to exercise.

Hi there, Kabayan;

Correct, Jesus speaks of fruit-bearing, and only those who are "in Him" can bear fruit, among which is faith which is fruit of the Spirit. So how can those NOT "in Christ" able to exercise faith when they have no faith to exercise?

Everyone is given a measure of faith.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (from Rom. 12:3)​

What matters is where we put it. If one puts their faith in Christ and His Work, then they are in Him.

As for your OP and its 'blue paragraph challenge', that's easy.

Your assertion: "So, HOW can one who is still separate from Christ and is yet spiritually dead being NOT “in Christ”, able to believe and repent, when Christ Himself said that separate from Him one can do NOTHING (John 15:5)? These preachers seem to be saying that while separate from Christ, one can do things: they can believe and repent, making Christ's statement false."

Christ, in context, is speaking of bearing His Fruit. Clearly when He says that 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.", the nothing referred to is that one not in Christ cannot bear His Fruit apart from Him.

Though faith (or some versions translate it, 'faithfulness') is part of the Fruit of the Spirit, in context of Galatians 5:22 it's more of a subset of the Fruit of love. Walking in love we will be joyful, peaceful, forbearing (patient), kind, good, faithful, gentle, and exhibit self-control. Everything listed after love is a manifestation of love, His Fruit.

Yet faith is a gift given to every man, to do with as he wills.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

I don't interpret, I just believe what Scriptures say.

Those NOT "in Christ" do not belong to Christ, and therefore belong to the devil. Those "in Christ" have the faith of Christ they use to believe. Those of the devil have the faith of the devil they use to believe.

So, in your view, how does one acquire one of the two different 'faiths' you've asserted above? Why would some get 'the faith of Christ' and others get 'the faith of the devil'?

Please back your answer up with contextual Scripture.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

The point relative to the OP I want emphasized is that being "in Christ" precedes all what those "in Christ" can do. The brand of gospel popularly preached teaches that for people to be "in Christ" they must first believe.
This, to me, smells of salvation by works, instead of grace.

Also, it seems not in accord with what Christ said that while NOT in Him, people can do NOTHING.

Because of Christ's life, death and resurrection, Adam and Eve and all their descendants are born "in Christ". This is all God's work FOR man, NOT an iota of human participation. But as we grow "in Christ", just like how we physically grow in our own human homes, we are given responsibilities commensurate with our spiritual level of maturity. So in this spiritual family of God. And everyone is admonished to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21), because only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.

Hi crossnote;

Let's go to v18:

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

But only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

When Christ returns to reward every man according to what each has done (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12), those whose names are found written in the book of life will be rewarded with life eternal and ushered into the heavenly portals (Rev 21:27). All others will suffer the wrath of God, and finally, thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

In one post you're claiming salvation by grace; in the next by works.

Which do you put your faith in?

-JGIG

 

[coby]

Most Christian preachers teach that people are born NOT “in Christ”. And to be NOT “in Christ” is to be separate from Christ, to be NOT part of His body, to be spiritually dead because Christ is our life (Col 3:4). These preachers teach that to be "in Christ", people need to first believe and repent.

So, HOW can one who is still separate from Christ and is yet spiritually dead being NOT “in Christ”, able to believe and repent, when Christ Himself said that separate from Him one can do NOTHING (John 15:5)? These preachers seem to be saying that while separate from Christ, one can do things: they can believe and repent, making Christ's statement false.

If you are one of these preachers, you may choose one of the ff:

1. If you believe the brand of gospel you are preaching is true, then address the issue in the blue paragraph.

2. But if upon reading this post, you realized that what you are preaching is defective, then preach instead that people are born "in Christ" and that all they have to do to remain "in Christ" is overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21), because overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

The spirit came from God. If you're not born from above and hear the Word you get faith to accept Him and be born again.
Acts 17 doesn't mean those people don't need to be born again.
For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

 

[blue_ladybug]

​The only one there is to preach.. GOD'S gospel.

 

[coby]

He is inside of everyone, but that doesn't mean everyone is His child. My Spirit won't always strive with man. Everyone has a conscience. You receive His gift of faith when you hear the Word, since faith comes by hearing the Word of God. So He enables someone to accept Him. Without Me you can do nothing: unsaved people can't heal the sick in His Name. They can do something. With nothing He doesn't mean absolutely nothing.

4*for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,*15*who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves*their*thoughts accusing or else excusing*them)*16*in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

[TMS]

Jesus came to seek and save the lost (good news),
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[JesusIsAll]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:16-19 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Rom 10:9-13 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:36-38 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Samie]

Hi JGIG;

God, through His grace given us in Christ, saved us and is saving us. Overcoming evil with good does not save us but rather keeps us in the saved condition because only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.

 

[mailmandan]

Believing is exercising faith. Faith is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and only those "in Christ" can bear fruit. Those NOT "in Christ" cannot bear fruit, and therefore have no faith to exercise.

"Faithfulness" is fruit of the Spirit. Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.. Only those who have saving faith in Christ who are in Christ can bear the fruit of faithfulness.

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So how do you interpret this verse?

In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. The word "believe" can describe "mere mental assent belief," as in (James 2:19), or also include "trust and reliance in Christ for salvation," as in (Acts 16:31).

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Because of Christ's life, death and resurrection, Adam and Eve and all their descendants are born "in Christ".

Nope, I don't preach that. Cain was of that Wicked, and absolutely not in Christ.

1 John 3:12
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

 

[crossnote]

Hi crossnote;

Let's go to v18:

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

But only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5). When Christ returns to reward every man according to what each has done (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12), those whose names are found written in the book of life will be rewarded with life eternal and ushered into the heavenly portals (Rev 21:27). All others will suffer the wrath of God, and finally, thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

Mankinds original state in Adam...

Ephesians 2:1-3 KJVS
[1] And you hath he quickened , who were dead in trespasses and sins; [2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: [3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


Colossians 1:21 KJVS
[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Believers have died to the old Adam thru Christ's death and have been risen anew in Jesus...

Romans 6:3-6 KJVS
[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him , that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.