What Gospel Do You Preach?

[NayborBear]

Hi crossnote;

The issue of the OP is whether faith comes before one is "in Christ". You seem to teach that people can believe while NOT "in Christ".

Scriptures say that faith cometh by hearing. "HEARING" signifies one is already spiritually alive otherwise he can't spiritually hear the call of the Spirit. And to be spiritually alive is to be "in Christ" Who is our life (Col 3:4). Therefore being "in Christ" precedes man's believing, NOT the other way around.

Don't the Bible say somewheres, that the sun shines on the just, as well as the unjust? Just because a man is not "in" Christ (covenant), and is spiritually dead, doesn't mean a man's spirit is dead. Jesus didn't create man, and breathe into his nostrils the breath of life and make him a living soul. His Father did! The foundations of this world (age), were created for Christ, but not by Christ. Connecting, or trying to connect Jesus as the creator, is playing right into the devils' hand.

"The issue of the OP is whether FAITH comes before one is "in Christ".....Yes, this is a requirement! For WHAT faith has a itty bitty baby? Of course, I don't understand "baby speak", and he/she COULD be saying they believe in Jesus, right before, or as they get "sprinkled", but, I wouldn't bet my soul on it!

 

[lovethelight]

Your quote of John 15:5 is out of context, thus the problem. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing." He is talking about abiding in him (thus one already has faith in him) and bearing fruit, and "fruit" is our behavior, not our internal beliefs that can drive behavior, which is the realm of repentance and faith. Your dichotomy is erroneous, similar to "who should we pay taxes to Caesar".

 

[Samie]

Your quote of John 15:5 is out of context, thus the problem. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing." He is talking about abiding in him (thus one already has faith in him) and bearing fruit, and "fruit" is our behavior, not our internal beliefs that can drive behavior, which is the realm of repentance and faith. Your dichotomy is erroneous, similar to "who should we pay taxes to Caesar".

Context? The context is, when one is NOT "in Him" he can do NOTHING spiritual. Is believing a spiritual act? If Yes, then it is doing SOMETHING spiritual which according to Christ cannot be done when one is NOT "in Him".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it's God's Word that quickens the dead, specifically the Gospel,...that was my point.

Jesus would agree with you..

John 6
[SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

 

[Willie-T]

The point relative to the OP I want emphasized is that being "in Christ" precedes all what those "in Christ" can do. The brand of gospel popularly preached teaches that for people to be "in Christ" they must first believe. This, to me, smells of salvation by works, instead of grace. Also, it seems not in accord with what Christ said that while NOT in Him, people can do NOTHING.

Because of Christ's life, death and resurrection, Adam and Eve and all their descendants are born "in Christ". This is all God's work FOR man, NOT an iota of human participation. But as we grow "in Christ", just like how we physically grow in our own human homes, we are given responsibilities commensurate with our spiritual level of maturity. So in this spiritual family of God. And everyone is admonished to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21), because only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.

I get "blasted" by people on here all the time because I am probably one of the more "inclusive" people here, but even I understand that you are not "in Christ" until you make a conscious decision to want to follow Him, and you trust in Him. He certainly died, one time, for all people, but none of us have any part in that Salvation until we express a sincere desire to belong to Christ.

I happen to believe there MAY still be a chance for that, even after death, but if that turns out to be true, it is STILL going to require us to initiate the repentance first.

 

[PennEd]

John 3: 14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[b] have eternal life.

Numbers 21: 4-9 4 Then they journeyed from Mount Hor by the Way of the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom; and the soul of the people became very discouraged on the way. 5 And the people spoke against God and against Moses: “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread.” 6 So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died.7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lordand against you; pray to the Lord that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.
8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.


[h=1]Romans 10:9New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

[h=1]Ephesians 2:8-9New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

The Jews in the desert did NOTHING but believe the Word of God to be saved.
We can do NOTHING but believe that Jesus is Lord and God the father raised Him from the dead, to be saved.
THIS is the Gospel that I preach and am not ashamed of.

Pecae, Grace and Love to you all!
THAT is THE Gospel. Once that happens the Holy Spirit seals us and Sanctifies us.

 

[PeterJens]

Hi crossnote;

The issue of the OP is whether faith comes before one is "in Christ". You seem to teach that people can believe while NOT "in Christ".

Scriptures say that faith cometh by hearing. "HEARING" signifies one is already spiritually alive otherwise he can't spiritually hear the call of the Spirit. And to be spiritually alive is to be "in Christ" Who is our life (Col 3:4). Therefore being "in Christ" precedes man's believing, NOT the other way around.

Charles Finny created a theological view of moral sin, where the sinner had free will to choose whether to walk in Christ or to stay as they are, unforgiven.

The question centers around the idea of lostness. If you believe man is a slave to sin, from birth, irrespective of desire or will, then no man could choose Christ until they were born again, which would be not of their will.

This is why often revivalists or preachers do not accept this theology, else why preach, because those who listen are already saved. If on the other hand you believe moral choice is an innate thing within all men, and God gives them the ability to choose once the offer is made, you are only saved when you choose to accept the offer.

The extension of this debate is how can anyone walk in righteousness unless we do not inherit our ability to sin from Adam, but from not being in communion with God. Once this communion is established then walking in righteousness is possible.

Now this particular debate is centuries old, and goes back to the early church.

 

[lovethelight]

Context? The context is, when one is NOT "in Him" he can do NOTHING spiritual. Is believing a spiritual act? If Yes, then it is doing SOMETHING spiritual which according to Christ cannot be done when one is NOT "in Him".

No, Jesus does not say "nothing spiritual", he plainly says "fruit" which is behavior. "You will know them by their fruit"...their behavior, not their beliefs.

Believing is spiritual/metaphysical. So, according to your argument, a person cannot believe something unless they are "in christ" - that would mean their mind would not function and thus they would be incapacitated. Do you not agree that there are many people who have beliefs about 'christ' who are not abiding in him?

 

[Magenta]

Context? The context is, when one is NOT "in Him" he can do NOTHING spiritual. Is believing a spiritual act? If Yes, then it is doing SOMETHING spiritual which according to Christ cannot be done when one is NOT "in Him".

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matt 7:22-23

 

[Depleted]

Most Christian preachers teach that people are born NOT “in Christ”. And to be NOT “in Christ” is to be separate from Christ, to be NOT part of His body, to be spiritually dead because Christ is our life (Col 3:4). These preachers teach that to be "in Christ", people need to first believe and repent.

So, HOW can one who is still separate from Christ and is yet spiritually dead being NOT “in Christ”, able to believe and repent, when Christ Himself said that separate from Him one can do NOTHING (John 15:5)? These preachers seem to be saying that while separate from Christ, one can do things: they can believe and repent, making Christ's statement false.

If you are one of these preachers, you may choose one of the ff:

1. If you believe the brand of gospel you are preaching is true, then address the issue in the blue paragraph.

2. But if upon reading this post, you realized that what you are preaching is defective, then preach instead that people are born "in Christ" and that all they have to do to remain "in Christ" is overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21), because overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

Something that often baffles me, where did you get that statistic about what most preachers teach?

Next question, why do you think this is a forum for preachers? Most of us aren't.

And finally, what are your credentials that tells me you can teach preachers?