What if you die before water baptism?

[Burn1986]

Here’s a responses of the Pharisees to a man who also had an experience:
“They said to the blind man again, “What do you say about Him because He opened your eyes?” He said, “He is a prophet.” Then they said to him again, “What did He do to you? How did He open your eyes?””
‭‭John‬ ‭9‬:‭26

The guy didn’t know how Jesus healed him, He just did.

 

[Wansvic]

Please..... Some need to stop and see something that was not fully grasped when the Church age began at Pentecost.
It was only understood later on...

They had just come out of a dispensation when believers were water baptized, and it was all they knew.

Please... look and see what was to change and to be all new to their thinking.




After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs
that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about
the kingdom of God. On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them
this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised,
which you have heard me speak about.
Now note...
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 1:3-5

There was a change coming. One that they did not immediately adjust to. For.. In all their excitement at Pentecost
they just kept doing as they had while living in the Jewish age.

Peter without hesitation continued in the mode of thinking 'water baptism.'

Ten chapters later, Peter finally had it sink in when remembered the words spoken by Jesus about water baptism
to be changed to the new baptism!

Acts 11:15-17​

​

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. ​

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be ​

baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ​

All the while Peter was commanding water baptisms he had no recalled what Jesus had told him
just before Pentecost!!!!! Prior to that, the disciples of Jesus had been water baptizing more people
than ever John the Baptist! So Peter was only doing what he had been ingrained with doing by Jesus.
Then! Jesus ascended and was glorified! EVERYTHING CHANGED!

Spirit baptism is to replace water.

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

That's the problem the church has been having when it stops at one verse and does not learn more that would be needed.

Acts 11:15-17​

​

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. ​

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be ​

baptized with the Holy Spirit.’​

Yes... many in the church have been missing something for a long time.
Read those verses again if need be, please.


grace and peace ......

Water baptism did not end at Pentecost; it was modified to include the name of Jesus in association with His death, burial and resurrection. Jesus prophesied about this in Luke 24:47.

In addition, the Apostle Paul was still water baptizing people in the name of Jesus 20+ years after Pentecost. (Acts 19:1-7)

 

[Wansvic]

Perhaps you are right that no where is Scripture is it explicitly said that a person receives the Spirit the moment they believe. But what we do know is that as Romans 8:9 says, "now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Yes, Paul makes it clear that receiving the Spirit of Christ is an essential element of salvation. And it was also Paul who asked, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? His question gives proof positive that the Holy Ghost is not automatically received upon belief in Jesus. Consider Jesus instruction as well. He told those who had not yet received the Holy Ghost to ask the Father to receive the gift. (Luke 11:13)

 

[Wansvic]

1. No. You may be surprised who's up in heaven. Baptism does not save, it's a public announcement that declares one is saved.
2. If he confessed Jesus Christ as his personal savior, he's saved, heaven bound.

When are one's sins remitted according to the word?

 

[Lamar]

I used it in my response because that's what they say. My response is there is no difference. Don't be coy.

My question: "How does "filled" with the spirit differ from the other mentions of the spirit?"

Your question: "So what percentage did I get at salvation if I wasn't "filled" at that time? 10%? 50%? 80%?"

And you call me "coy"?

Wow!

 

[Lamar]

My response is there is no difference. Don't be coy.

If there is no difference then we receive the Holy Spirit at water baptism. Period.

Peter said to them, “Change your hearts and lives and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then God will forgive your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 ERV

 

[NightTwister]

My question: "How does "filled" with the spirit differ from the other mentions of the spirit?"

Your question: "So what percentage did I get at salvation if I wasn't "filled" at that time? 10%? 50%? 80%?"

And you call me "coy"?

Wow!

Because I was responding to someone else who was suggesting there was a difference, and then you jumped it without reading the thread and incorrectly thought I was the one suggesting there's a difference. Try reading the thread before you make assumptions.

 

[Wansvic]

You can check this out and see if I’m wrong. But in the New Testament there were only 2 times that the Holy Spirit was poured out MIRACULOUSLY on anyone. Once in Acts 2on the Jewish disciples (the 12) ...

There were 120 in the upper room. (Acts 1:13-15, 2:1) Peter referenced what occurred as fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about God pouring out His Spirit on sons and daughters, etc. (Acts 2:17-18)

I was surprised to find an OT event that paralleled God coming to dwell in the 120 in the upper room on the Day of Pentecost:
"The 120 in the Upper Room are associated with the 120 priests who were with Solomon when he brought the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem. The Ark of the Covenant symbolises God’s Presence (2 Chron 5:12). The 120 priests are dedicated to perform the rituals of the temple. As they leave the Holy of Holies they sing praises to the Lord accompanied by musical instruments and as they do, the cloud of the Presence of the Glory of God descends upon them. They can no longer minister in the Presence of God because of the weight of Kabod (the glory of the Presence) and the likelihood they will die in touching the Presence. (2 Chron 6:1:18). There were 120 priests leading the people in the temple in Solomon’s time, waiting for God to indwell the Holy of Holies. Likewise, there are 120 brethren praising God and waiting for the Promise of the Father in the Upper Room. In Solomon’s temple there are 120 priests worshipping with one voice. In the Upper Room 120 are praying with one voice in complete accord. The Presence of the Lord fills the Holy of Holies, so too The Holy Spirit of God rests on each of the 120 believers gathered in the Upper Room with tongues of fire. With the coming of the Holy Spirit, as promised, those present become the Temple of the Holy Spirit, members of the Body of Christ and priests to serve God for all humanity, Jews and Gentiles." Excerpt from Berean Insights.

 

[Karlon]

When are one's sins remitted according to the word?

as soon as a born again Christian asks God in the name of Jesus Christ to have sins forgiven, they are forgiven. now, John 9:31 teaches: "now we know that God heareth NOT sinners, but if any man be a worshipper of God & doeth His will, him He heareth". this means God does not hear the prayers of an atheist. this can be confusing because "hearth not sinners" is everyone. everyone sins, yes, born again Christians. but the big issue is people committing UNREPENTANT sin will not have sins forgiven. when a b.a. Christian commits sin, he or she will hear from the Holy Spirit & their own spirit convicting them & saying something like, "that's wrong, stop it", or "don't do that".

 

[NightTwister]

If there is no difference then we receive the Holy Spirit at water baptism. Period.

Peter said to them, “Change your hearts and lives and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then God will forgive your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 ERV

You appear to be arguing with yourself at this point.

 

[crossnote]

Yep. I was also in a place where a pastor and several other men laid hands and prayed over me. I began to detect little phrases that I didn’t understand. I had the thought “If you say that they will know you are faking” But I decided to do it anyway and man, it was like a flood. I was so fired up, that I could not sit still at work. I almost couldn’t contain myself. It was a life changing moment. Other people have had similar experiences as mine but others have had different ones. One lady said she was driving along and all the sudden she heard herself singing in tongues.

interesting

 

[Burn1986]

interesting

“Interesting” with a line through it 🤔

 

[crossnote]

“Interesting” with a line through it 🤔

IOW 'not interesting'

 

[Burn1986]

IOW 'not interesting'

Well, at least you’re communicating. There’s probably not too much about the Holy Spirit on here. There are some true Biblical scholars on here for sure. Several of these guys could write seminary books - which is certainly more interesting than some average Christian guy with a basic Holy Spirit experience. Carry on

 

[Magenta]

Perhaps you are right that no where is Scripture is it explicitly said that a person receives the Spirit the moment they
believe. But what we do know is that as Romans 8:9 says, "now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Plus, when we believe, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14

 

[Wansvic]

as soon as a born again Christian asks God in the name of Jesus Christ to have sins forgiven, they are forgiven. now, John 9:31 teaches: "now we know that God heareth NOT sinners, but if any man be a worshipper of God & doeth His will, him He heareth". this means God does not hear the prayers of an atheist. this can be confusing because "hearth not sinners" is everyone. everyone sins, yes, born again Christians. but the big issue is people committing UNREPENTANT sin will not have sins forgiven. when a b.a. Christian commits sin, he or she will hear from the Holy Spirit & their own spirit convicting them & saying something like, "that's wrong, stop it", or "don't do that".

Scripture reveals sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism. Water baptism instituted for those living in the NT was modified to include the need to invoke the name of Jesus in association with His sacrifice. (Acts 2:38-41, 22:16; Luke 3:3, Mark 1:1-5, etc.)

 

[Karlon]

Scripture reveals sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism. Water baptism instituted for those living in the NT was modified to include the need to invoke the name of Jesus in association with His sacrifice. (Acts 2:38-41, 22:16; Luke 3:3, Mark 1:1-5, etc.)

that means you would have to do a work to receive something. Jesus didn't leave us to finish His work of salvation. besides, everyone can't get baptized!

 

[Denise04]

This is a thread for people who believe water baptism is required for salvation, if you aren't that type of person, then obviously you don't need to answer this question, as I know you will just say the man is saved, as water isnt required.

Hypothetical situations that are often brought up by people to argue against baptismal regeneration are:

1. What about someone who is ill, about to die, cries out to God, asks Jesus to save them, will they die lost because they didn't have enough time to get baptized?

2. What about someone who is on a stranded island and has no one to baptize him, dies there, will he die lost?

In my opinion both of these arguments deserve a proper response, which is why I am making this thread. Give me your case, you who believe baptism in water is required for salvation.

PS I hope this thread isnt gonna turn into 50 responses and 0 answers and everyone just saying "Its not required for salvation because of such and such." I get it, I know the arguments both ways, but im just asking our baptismal regeneration people here to answer these. Thank you for understanding.

Baptism does not get you to heaven

 

[crossnote]

Well, at least you’re communicating. There’s probably not too much about the Holy Spirit on here. There are some true Biblical scholars on here for sure. Several of these guys could write seminary books - which is certainly more interesting than some average Christian guy with a basic Holy Spirit experience. Carry on

IOW, no discernment. lol

 

[Burn1986]

IOW, no discernment. lol

No discernment? Because I said there’s some biblical scholars? Okay…