What I'm learning

[Angela53510]

JF, nice to see you back. But issuing a big warning about this group. It is the Hebrew Roots Movement, and they are a cult.

You do NOT have to obey the OT law to be saved or follow Jesus.

Here are a few links for you to read:

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/writers/GG/the-hebrew-roots-cult.htm

What is the Hebrew Roots movement?

And this, by our very own JGIG! She does an awesome job of explaining the errors of the HRM

https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/how-i-became-aware-of-the-hebrew-roots-movement/

You might also want to read Acts 15 and Gal. 2:11-16 and the entire book of Hebrews!

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I always wanted to get it "right". I always felt like a failure of a Christian and like I was missing something so I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed that I could get it "right" because I desperatly wanted to be with God and love Him the way He wanted to be loved so in His time He sent me my friend, Bree and everything makes sense!

About eight years ago I had exactly the same attitude towards Christianity. I always listened to the American preachers like Joyce Meyers etc but there was something always stopping and warning me against their teachings. I never felt comfortable because even if 80% of what they teach you is Biblical, what about the 20% which is man made doctrine. I then surrendered and said "Lord, the truth".

At that stage I started listening to Walter Weitz and some other preachers from the Seventh Day Adventist and they were amazing but once again there were some no so sound doctrines and I could make the 80-20 split.

After that a girl from my office one day gave me a CD about a church she attended. I listened to the sermon and it did not do anything for me... but being the polite guy I am I said to her I would like to listen to another sermon if she had one... My live changed that day. We are taught in Hebrew. We are not the Hebrew movement (or whatever it is called in America, in SA they are the Israel vision).

Keep on learning from your friend and trust God to teach you. If you have doubts ask people on this website. You will have lots of answers and with your Bible you can sift through it and trust God to guide you to His truth.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I'd warn JF about the Hebrew Roots Movement but that would only push her further into it.

So Crossnote, just to be clear. You don't have a problem with the Hebrew language and teachings from it but you have a problem with people teaching false doctrines from the Old Testament?

 

[Willie-T]

No, no, no. I just mean the feasts, and the ten commandments and passover. It's not like following the law of moses.

If you will do about a half-hour's study on this, you will find that Moses returned from many of his eight journeys up that mountain with a whole passel of laws that he actually sat down and wrote out for the children of Israel to follow... he even made a "book" out of them, and named it.... AND they happily agreed to follow them all.

 

[JFSurvivor]

JF, nice to see you back. But issuing a big warning about this group. It is the Hebrew Roots Movement, and they are a cult.

You do NOT have to obey the OT law to be saved or follow Jesus.

Here are a few links for you to read:

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/writers/GG/the-hebrew-roots-cult.htm

What is the Hebrew Roots movement?

And this, by our very own JGIG! She does an awesome job of explaining the errors of the HRM

https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/how-i-became-aware-of-the-hebrew-roots-movement/

You might also want to read Acts 15 and Gal. 2:11-16 and the entire book of Hebrews!

No, no. I am 10000000000000000000% sure this is N0T that. I know I sound crazy and naive but this is NOT that. Like I said, you don't have to obey the Leviticus law like if a woman does something she gets her hand cut off or offering sacrifices for sins. It is literally just

1) observing the jewish festivals and feasts
2) observing passover
3) observing the sabbath on a saturday
4) following the ten commandments

Also not to be mean, but please understand that I am the one talking with these people. I have had experience with cults and there are HUGE differences between these people and a cult. These people have not "love bombed" me. They have not forced me to belive anything (I came to those conclusions on my own) and they literally just used the Bible as in the NIV Bible that was just there and all they did was read from it and give me some history. It was ALL facts and I was like So yeah

So how can you judge these people when you don't even know them?

 

[JFSurvivor]

If you will do about a half-hour's study on this, you will find that Moses returned from many of his eight journeys up that mountain with a whole passel of laws that he actually sat down and wrote out for the children of Israel to follow... he even made a "book" out of them, and named it.... AND they happily agreed to follow them all.

So it was MOSES not God that wrote that law?

 

[LanceA]

No, no. I am 10000000000000000000% sure this is N0T that. I know I sound crazy and naive but this is NOT that. Like I said, you don't have to obey the Leviticus law like if a woman does something she gets her hand cut off or offering sacrifices for sins. It is literally just

1) observing the jewish festivals and feasts
2) observing passover
3) observing the sabbath on a saturday
4) following the ten commandments

Also not to be mean, but please understand that I am the one talking with these people. I have had experience with cults and there are HUGE differences between these people and a cult. These people have not "love bombed" me. They have not forced me to belive anything (I came to those conclusions on my own) and they literally just used the Bible as in the NIV Bible that was just there and all they did was read from it and give me some history. It was ALL facts and I was like So yeah

So how can you judge these people when you don't even know them?

So do they believe you need to follow these Passovers and customs to be saved or are they just a tradition they keep? A lot of these cult type groups tell you the things that sound ok to do then when they get you in they start getting deeper and deeper in non biblical practices.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No, no. I am 10000000000000000000% sure this is N0T that. I know I sound crazy and naive but this is NOT that. Like I said, you don't have to obey the Leviticus law like if a woman does something she gets her hand cut off or offering sacrifices for sins. It is literally just

1) observing the jewish festivals and feasts
2) observing passover
3) observing the sabbath on a saturday
4) following the ten commandments

Also not to be mean, but please understand that I am the one talking with these people. I have had experience with cults and there are HUGE differences between these people and a cult. These people have not "love bombed" me. They have not forced me to belive anything (I came to those conclusions on my own) and they literally just used the Bible as in the NIV Bible that was just there and all they did was read from it and give me some history. It was ALL facts and I was like So yeah

So how can you judge these people when you don't even know them?

Their doctrine is corrupt and another gospel. That's how we can judge them. We've heard it all before.

 

[JFSurvivor]

So do they believe you need to follow these Passovers and customs to be saved or are they just a tradition they keep? A lot of these cult type groups tell you the things that sound ok to do then when they get you in they start getting deeper and deeper in non biblical practices.

They believe that by keeping this stuff you're basically telling God you love Him. There is forgiveness if you mess up but you should try not to because it will make God sad. That's how I understand it anyways. I may be wrong. I think Passover is necessary for salvation but that is a case by case thing. If someone wants to have passover but dies before they have the chance God will understand. Make sense?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

They believe that by keeping this stuff you're basically telling God you love Him. There is forgiveness if you mess up but you should try not to because it will make God sad. That's how I understand it anyways. I may be wrong. I think Passover is necessary for salvation but that is a case by case thing. If someone wants to have passover but dies before they have the chance God will understand. Make sense?

You're being seduced by something that is not Christian. Christ is our Passover.

Clean out the old leaven in order that you may be a new batch of dough, just as you are unleavened. For Christ our Passover has been sacrificed. 1 Corinthians 5:7​

 

[Abing]

They believe that by keeping this stuff you're basically telling God you love Him. There is forgiveness if you mess up but you should try not to because it will make God sad. That's how I understand it anyways. I may be wrong. I think Passover is necessary for salvation but that is a case by case thing. If someone wants to have passover but dies before they have the chance God will understand. Make sense?

Then the Cross would've been for nothing?

 

[notuptome]

So it was MOSES not God that wrote that law?

It is not what was written but to whom it was written.

The burden upon Israel was not placed upon the Gentile world. Israel could not keep the burden the law placed upon them and there is no expectation that any Gentile can keep it either. Keeping the law always ends in failure. Only Gods grace provided by Christ and received by faith prevails against sin.

There is no life in the Passover only remembrance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[LanceA]

They believe that by keeping this stuff you're basically telling God you love Him. There is forgiveness if you mess up but you should try not to because it will make God sad. That's how I understand it anyways. I may be wrong. I think Passover is necessary for salvation but that is a case by case thing. If someone wants to have passover but dies before they have the chance God will understand. Make sense?

We are saved by grace through faith not by Passover. You are being mislead and I challenge you to look in the New Testament and point me to the verse where it says we are saved through Passover? We are to test everything through the Word of God and I think you need to do this. And like HeRoseFromTheDead said Jesus is our passover.

 

[Willie-T]

So it was MOSES not God that wrote that law?

Do the studying I mentioned, and you will find out.

 

[JFSurvivor]

So yeeeeeah I'm just gonna go then because this is getting nowhere. Instead of having a civil discussion like I had hoped I just have everyone telling me why I am wrong...so yeah...I have never been so convinced of anything in my life. The cross was not for nothing. Like I said I am just learning about this stuff so I am nowhere near prepared to answer this barage of questions you are hurling at me so I am going to step out and learn more and I may return and be able to explain more in detial and I may not but my point is that this is the real deal. It all lines up so perfectly and I love it! You can tell a tree by its fruit right? I look at the mainstream Christian "fruit" and it is not good at all! This, this though actually will produce good fruit. I see myself changing for the better, not because I feel like I have to but I honestly want to.

 

[Willie-T]

Well, just please do as I have suggested both here and in PM's......... Do YOUR OWN studying, from sources both pro and con.

 

[Brother_Don]

Jesus see's your heart sister. Jesus knows when our hearts want to learn more of His ways. Just keep seeking and you will be amazed at what the Father has to share. Jesus says that his, will not hear a strangers voice and will run from a stranger. keep tuning into Jesus, and one day we will all be tuned in completely.

 

[Miri]

Hi JF nice to see you.

Just a comment (a large comment actually) about the Passover, it was symbolic
of the wonderful work Jesus would eventually do on the cross.

Im sure you know the story of the 10 plagues with the last being the
death of the first born. The Israelites were told that in order to protect
themselves they had to kill a lamb and daub the door lintel etc with blood.
That the plague would pass over any house with this sign.

In other words the people inside were covered by the blood of the lamb.
Move forward a number of years and we see that this all pointed to
Jesus who became our permanent Passover lamb. The judgement of God passes
over us when we are born again as we are covered by the blood of the
Lamb who is Jesus. We carry this once and for all sacrifice with us wherever we
go, it covers us like a spiritual umbrella.

The Passover and forgiveness of sin via animal sacrifice
are what we refer to as the old covenant. The various sacrifices in
the Old Testament including the Passover, were a temporary solution to the problem
of sin. When Jesus died we entered into a new covenant, therefore there is no
need to celebrate the Passover as Jesus became the everlasting Passover lamb.
He died once and once only. He does not need to die every year unlike the
earthly Passover lambs. To keep celebrating the Passover now would be like
trying to kill Jesus over and over again.

Jesus kept the Passover and celebrated it on earth as he was keeping the old covenant
which was still in place before his death. Although as he was sinless fully man and fully
God, Jesus did not actually have any sin to forgive, but he did come to fulfill the law
of sin and death. In other words a worldwide forever crime had been committed, the
penalty was death and Jesus bore the forever penalty for us all.

But just before his death Jesus gave the disciples a new rememberance service to keep.
His death and resurrection guaranteed eternal life for those who would receive
his ultimate sacrifice as the forgiveness of sin. We don't need to keep the Passover
of the Old Testament any more as there is no need for any more sacrifices. However see the
following verses concerning the new remembrance service. It is more commonly referred to
as the communion service. Notice it actually says this is the new covenant, the new promise
between God and man. Jesus himself instituted this!



Luke 22:17-20 NKJV
[17] Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, "Take this and divide it among
yourselves; [18] for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom
of God comes." [19] And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them,
saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
[20] Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant
in My blood, which is shed for you.



Jesus also said the following:


Luke 5:36-39 NKJV
[36] Then He spoke a parable to them: "No one puts a piece from a new
garment on an old one; otherwise the new makes a tear, and also the piece
that was taken out of the new does not match the old. [37] And no one puts
new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins
and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. [38] But new wine must
be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved. [39] And no one, having
drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, 'The old is better.'"



In other words the old covenant has gone and a new covenant has been made
between God and man via the death of Jesus on the cross. Jesus knew there
would be people with a mix and match approach, they would try to mix a bit
of the old covenant in with the new. The above parable warns against doing that.
Jesus also knew people would be drawn back to the old covenant because it was
what they understood and knew and they would say the old was better.


Isnt it amazing that God has made a new covenant, a new promise with you,
the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus ushered in that new covenant.
That is just astounding that God has entered into this covenant with us, with you my friend.
God almighty has made a promise to you - just think about that for a moment
and let it sink in.

Dont trample over that and nullify it for yourself by trying to go back to
the temporary less effective old covenant of the Passover.

 

[LanceA]

So yeeeeeah I'm just gonna go then because this is getting nowhere. Instead of having a civil discussion like I had hoped I just have everyone telling me why I am wrong...so yeah...I have never been so convinced of anything in my life. The cross was not for nothing. Like I said I am just learning about this stuff so I am nowhere near prepared to answer this barage of questions you are hurling at me so I am going to step out and learn more and I may return and be able to explain more in detial and I may not but my point is that this is the real deal. It all lines up so perfectly and I love it! You can tell a tree by its fruit right? I look at the mainstream Christian "fruit" and it is not good at all! This, this though actually will produce good fruit. I see myself changing for the better, not because I feel like I have to but I honestly want to.

I guess I don't understand you. Your first post asks us to chime in on our thoughts and when we do you up and leave? I think the majority here have been calm and giving you what you asked for. The ultimate decision is yours but please pray about it and challenge what you are learning with the Word of God. I can say with 100% accuracy that the New Testament does not tell us we are save by the Passover.

 

[jsr1221]

So yeeeeeah I'm just gonna go then because this is getting nowhere. Instead of having a civil discussion like I had hoped I just have everyone telling me why I am wrong...so yeah...I have never been so convinced of anything in my life. The cross was not for nothing. Like I said I am just learning about this stuff so I am nowhere near prepared to answer this barage of questions you are hurling at me so I am going to step out and learn more and I may return and be able to explain more in detial and I may not but my point is that this is the real deal. It all lines up so perfectly and I love it! You can tell a tree by its fruit right? I look at the mainstream Christian "fruit" and it is not good at all! This, this though actually will produce good fruit. I see myself changing for the better, not because I feel like I have to but I honestly want to.

What only matters is do you believe Jesus Christ is your Lord.. Did He die on the cross and raise from the grave? If the answer is yes then you use the Bible as a guide to love your life for Christ... Eveything else is secondary and really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of themes.