What is "spiritually dead?"

[1ofthem]

Just a question here...Do you think that all of the lost folks, don't or can't realize that they are lost and in need of a savior?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Hey, where’s Magenta at now?

im here in her stead

what do you need?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Just a question here...Do you think that all of the lost folks, don't or can't realize that they are lost and in need of a savior?

most are willingly ignorant

many are hardened to the point of spiritual blindness

 

[reneweddaybyday]

(Finally got back to this spot with most work done, so can think.)

I'm sorry, but I'm not good at remembering who said what and only on a good day, sometimes, can I remember verses, but someone mentioned David was already sinful in the womb, DC said that Paul said (Romans 7 -- at least I remember where this time lol) he was alive until the commandments came, and this suggests we slowly died spiritual death by sinning.

So, so far we have
-- dead before birth
-- dead somewhere along the way.
-- just separated from God. (Which isn't a "just" really, but it does sound like we could find our way back somehow.)

I suspect I'm going to have to study Romans all the way through again, but I remember there was order to it. The ones you talk about in Romans 1 are the ones who aren't saved by the Lord. They're actually pushed further into their sin.

Really, can't say how I can answer my own question anymore. I have this overall feeling dead is dead, including spiritual death.

Psalm 51:5 is the verse which states Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 51 was written after Nathan the prophet spoke to David after he had gone into Bathsheba – see 2 Sam 11 – 12.

David acknowledged his sin and asked for forgiveness. In vs. 5 David stated what all mankind knows (whether they admit it or not) … that we are fallen from birth. And in vs 10 David asked God to create in him a new heart and to renew a right spirit within him. David implored God not to cast him away from His presence (vs 11).

I believe that when Adam sinned, that image of God (spirit), in which he was made, died. Thereafter, Adam was body and soul (dead spirit). The soul gives life to the body. When God breathed into his nostrils, Adam became a living soul. I believe image of God is spirit (John 4:24).

I also believe that man has a conscience. The reason God gave man a conscience was so that natural man (those not born again, those dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1) would have the capacity to hear from God.

I believe God calls out to all mankind in this lifetime and we have this lifetime to not restrain/suppress the truth in unrighteousness. And while Rom 1 does go through the downward spiral to the point where God gives over to a reprobate mind, there is always an opportunity to hear and not restrain/suppress. God does not give up on us in this lifetime. Look at the thief on the cross. A last minute call for help and that glorious response thou shalt be with me in paradise.

However, why wait that long to develop the wonderful, loving relationship we can have with God? Why live our lives without that sweet, joyous, blissful fellowship with Father and Son? Nothing better in this lifetime.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Brilliant! Never thought of it that way. Going to have to take some time to see if I can figure out if there are any cracks in the theory, (doesn't look like it at the moment, but this is what I do when I see something brilliant), before deciding if I fully agree.

And, I'm sure you didn't know this as you wrote it, but one thought I had as I was reading it was, "If we are brought back to the image of God why not go back to naked?" BUT you answered that before I even asked. We're still tarnished, so... ew ew. Let's not get naked yet. lol

(And, everyone says "Whew! She's not getting naked. I don't have to scratch my eyes out." lol)

No one knows what the nakedness of Adam and Eve looked like. Even now, in this lifetime, it is available to be clothed in righteousness. What does that mean? And were Adam/Eve clothed in that same righteousness before they fell?


Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.


And look at Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. This is something the born again believer is instructed to do. Put off the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts (Eph 4:22) and put on the new man. When Adam and Eve sinned, was it palpable to them that they were no longer righteous and holy, and that they they were now corrupt?

Just some thoughts ...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Just a question here...Do you think that all of the lost folks, don't or can't realize that they are lost and in need of a savior?

I think everyone recognizes there's "something "wrong. Sadly, most people look to the world to fill the void (to no avail as only God can satisfy the hungering, thirsting soul).

 

[dcontroversal]

Ah, sorry. That's a spot we'll never agree on then. I see no age of accountability in the Bible. My earliest memories include stealing cookies before dinner. I was sneaky for a reason. I totally knew what I was doing was wrong. Later on I was told not to go to Bell Lake until I past beginner's swimming. Went anyway, fully aware I was wrong. Even willing to be spanked, because what I wanted was more important than Mom worrying about me drowning.

My cousin was born when I was four. Along with remembering thinking I was much older than her (

) and needed to take care of her, I must have only been five when she hit high-chair stage. She had a bottle of milk she was drinking and did that klutzy baby move that always ends with food/drink flying. Purely accidental. And there is this startled look they get when it happens.

I ran off to grab the bottle and gave it right back to her. She got excited, big grin, flying arms, but the next time she let go of that bottle it was intentional. She definitely thought, (even before she thought in English), "how often can I get her to get my bottle for me."

I ran off and got it again, and returned it. She kept it up over and over again. She truly understood she was in control. It amused her. It entertained her and she was the center of attention.

Jesus said that keeping the commandments came down to two things -- loving the Lord fully and loving others as ourselves. Which means anything else is disobeying the commandments. There's only one thing else. Loving self first. My cousin couldn't put that into words, but she got it even before she spoke words. We are accountable.

What amazes me, thinking of what Jesus was like as a baby. I kind of think he did cry, but he cried with reason. To communicate hunger, thirty, uncomfortable in dirty diapers, scared. (Big loud noises.) He didn't cry over not getting his way. He didn't cry to seek attention. He didn't throw stuff just to get someone to pay attention to him. He didn't sin.

I have full faith in babies. They're like the rest of us -- fully self-absorbed. aka sinners. Big cousin and big sister. Both ways I've seen it in action. lol

Ok......so what.....David must have been in error when he said he would GO TO HIS CHILD AND SEE HIM AGAIN....explain how that is possible as David was obviously saved and in one week I am confident the child had no opportunity to be saved according to your doctrine.......so...using your belief explain how David could say what he said with assurance!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Agree with your last post. Still not agreeing to age of accountability. lol

You don't think David knew he would see his son again, because he trusted the Lord? God never said he was punishing the baby. And, I see David like all of God's adopted people. He trusted the Lord and was counted as a Man of God by the Lord. He even trusted in the Savior, before he came.

Yes, he trusted God. But why would he think he would see his baby again if there is no age of accountability? He seemed pretty certain. He didn't say, I hope I will see him again. He said he knew he would. Which leads me to think there is some sort of age of accountability. Though as we've seen, some believe we are born with a living spirit. I don't think so based on what I've read. I could be wrong though.

 

[OneFaith]

Jesus said “I tell you the truth, unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you.” Of course He is speaking spiritually. Another time He said “Let the dead bury the dead.” Again He is speaking spiritually. He meant let the spiritually dead bury the physically dead. God is life, if God is not in you, then you are spiritually dead. “May they be one as We are one- I in them and You in Me, that they may be brought to complete unity.”

 

[SovereignGrace]

Gods wrath is not directed at man but at sin.

This does not add up my Brother. The Law is God's standards He has given us to be governed by. Apostle Paul address this when he wrote We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.[1 Timothy 1:8-11]

If the Law had not been given to us to govern us, then there would be no sin. If there is no speed limit, there would be no speeding tickets. If there was no Law against killing another person(murder in this instance), then there would be no murders.

But God has set the limits to what we can and can not do, and if we go beyond that which we are not allowed, we commit sin. God does not punish the sin, but the sinner. If someone murders another person, the act of murder is not punished, the murderer is.

In Proverbs 6:16-19, there are seven things God hates, and yes, He hates sin, but He also hates the sinner. Then we can read Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.[John 3:36] Rejecting the Son is a sin, but it is not punished, rather, it is the one who is rejecting the Son that is punished.

You can not divorce the sin from the sinner, or vice versa.

 

[Dan58]

Your either alive in Christ or dead to the world... Without His quickening spirit, game over.

 

[louis]

Just a question here...Do you think that all of the lost folks, don't or can't realize that they are lost and in need of a savior?

People compensate for their spritual lacking with their material goods. It's called idolatry.

 

[notuptome]

This does not add up my Brother. The Law is God's standards He has given us to be governed by. Apostle Paul address this when he wrote We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.[1 Timothy 1:8-11]

If the Law had not been given to us to govern us, then there would be no sin. If there is no speed limit, there would be no speeding tickets. If there was no Law against killing another person(murder in this instance), then there would be no murders.

But God has set the limits to what we can and can not do, and if we go beyond that which we are not allowed, we commit sin. God does not punish the sin, but the sinner. If someone murders another person, the act of murder is not punished, the murderer is.

In Proverbs 6:16-19, there are seven things God hates, and yes, He hates sin, but He also hates the sinner. Then we can read Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.[John 3:36] Rejecting the Son is a sin, but it is not punished, rather, it is the one who is rejecting the Son that is punished.

You can not divorce the sin from the sinner, or vice versa.

Well did God hate Cain for murdering his brother Able? If God hated Cain why did God offer Cain a sin offering to cover Cain's sin. Cain sinned before there was a law. The law was given to make sin personal.

God loves the sinner. God loves the sinner so much that He sent His Son to die for them that they might be saved. God hates sin so much that sin will have the wrath of God upon it for all of eternity. The lake of fire burns with the intense heat of Gods wrath.

Only God can love with the love that is His. Gods love is perfect and eternal. If a man has a son who commits a crime does the man love his son any less? Grieved and broken hearted does he love any less? Hating the crime only intensifies the love for the child.

How you approach the scriptures is important. Where sin doth abound grace doth much more abound.

Ro 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Budman]

although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind

I....have....become....one....with....the....Corg.


Carry on.

 

[Depleted]

To be spiritually dead is to be separated from God because of sin.
Isaiah 59King James Version (KJV)

59 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

The only way that sin can be covered or washed away is through the blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ.

In Him we have life without Him we are dead.

What were we when dead though? Because honestly, I had 16 years of life -- moving, walking, talking, thinking, etc. -- before I became spiritually alive. It's a weird dead when we can still seem alive.

 

[Depleted]

That is your 'eyes to see and your ears to hear'.

You once were lost but now you are found.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Galatians 3:23-26
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

(I might be getting this now.)

So we were spiritually Helen Keller before she finally understood that wet stuff Annie was putting on her before lots of motions on her hand was "wah-wah"/water? Deaf and blind. Not getting anything about anything apart from what was going on inside us, until a vague memory (instilled by the Lord) came back that she used to know the word "wah-wah" before she became deaf and blind.

That kind of new-life thing?

 

[posthuman]

What were we when dead though? Because honestly, I had 16 years of life -- moving, walking, talking, thinking, etc. -- before I became spiritually alive. It's a weird dead when we can still seem alive.

do you know anything about what quantum superposition / 'the Copenhagen interpretation' is? Schrödinger's cat?

and the observer effect.
you know The Observer

 

[Depleted]

What If a person were to ask,If someone Is spiritually dead does that mean that they get a brand new spirit when their spirit Is MADE perfect or Is the spirit they already have CORRECTED to perfection?

You're just trying to confuse me more, arencha? lol

 

[Depleted]

Just a question here...Do you think that all of the lost folks, don't or can't realize that they are lost and in need of a savior?

Me?

I go with Romans 1 on this. The evidence of God is available to all to see through his creation.

Can we realize? YES!

Will we without him? NO! We're too busy hiding our sin in darkness. (John 3:19-20.)

Only one changes that. God. (John 3:21)

I think we spent our time suppressing the truth. (Rom. 1:18)

I think we were dead-bulbs-in-the-box recharged by the Lord.

 

[Depleted]

Psalm 51:5 is the verse which states Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 51 was written after Nathan the prophet spoke to David after he had gone into Bathsheba – see 2 Sam 11 – 12.

David acknowledged his sin and asked for forgiveness. In vs. 5 David stated what all mankind knows (whether they admit it or not) … that we are fallen from birth. And in vs 10 David asked God to create in him a new heart and to renew a right spirit within him. David implored God not to cast him away from His presence (vs 11).

I believe that when Adam sinned, that image of God (spirit), in which he was made, died. Thereafter, Adam was body and soul (dead spirit). The soul gives life to the body. When God breathed into his nostrils, Adam became a living soul. I believe image of God is spirit (John 4:24).

I also believe that man has a conscience. The reason God gave man a conscience was so that natural man (those not born again, those dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1) would have the capacity to hear from God.

I believe God calls out to all mankind in this lifetime and we have this lifetime to not restrain/suppress the truth in unrighteousness. And while Rom 1 does go through the downward spiral to the point where God gives over to a reprobate mind, there is always an opportunity to hear and not restrain/suppress. God does not give up on us in this lifetime. Look at the thief on the cross. A last minute call for help and that glorious response thou shalt be with me in paradise.

However, why wait that long to develop the wonderful, loving relationship we can have with God? Why live our lives without that sweet, joyous, blissful fellowship with Father and Son? Nothing better in this lifetime.

Typical Lynnie-memory. Last year I read Psalms. I distinctly remember spending days on Psalm 51, (as long as I took on Psalm 119, which, come on now, is a really long Psalm so just has to be done in the course of days.) Psalm 51 blows me away. And despite that, here it is one year later, and I forgot all that about Psalm 51 until you just reminded me.

Doh!!!

I think you just did something here, that doesn't happen often to me. You convinced me to believe something different.

Good job!

(Would give you another rep, but spreading has to happen. lol)