What is the proper way to preach grace?

[seed_time_harvest]

For GOD so loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten SON that whosoever believes In HIM would not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE.

 

[Hizikyah]

For GOD so loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten SON that whosoever believes In HIM would not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE.

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."

Psalm 117:2, "For His lovingkindness is great toward us, And the truth of YHWH is everlasting. Praise YHWH!"

 

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by Grandpa
Romans 10:2-4

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

You show your character with the name calling...and you tell me I don't understand but you are misusingRomans 10:1-4, for 2 reasons, you dont understand Paul was talking about Pharisees who made their own law and you have been misled by a translation that does not properly translate "telos";

Romans 10:3, "For not knowing the righteousness of Yah, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of Yah."

This is a much misunderstood passage, for it would be sticking up forthe pharisees who made their own law if misunderstood, it was exposing those who would not submit to Yah but again made theor own “way”

Mat 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them; And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"​

Romans 10:3-4, "For not knowing the righteousness of Yah, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of Yah. For Messiah is the goal of the ‘Torah unto righteousness’ to everyone who believes."

For not knowing the righteousness of Yah, and seeking to establish their own righteousness;​

​

Mat 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them; And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"​

​

We can not earn Salvation by only obedience to the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.


The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.


Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;


Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."


Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."


1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."


1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."


If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.


Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.


James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”


James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose(telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”


1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”


1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”


Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.


Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”


Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”


Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."


Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."


The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…


1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”


1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of our instruction/command is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."


*goalis word #G5056 télos - Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

A Judaizer is someone who wishes to follow after the Law of Judaism. Would you deny that you are a Judaizer after this definition and not your made up one? Anyways, that's not the issue. The issue is should we, as Christians, continue to work at the law after we have come to Christ?


Romans 9:31 [FONT=&quot]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

[/FONT]The law of Righteousness? Is that the Pharisees made up law as you claim? No, of course not. Paul wouldn't call the pharisees made up law the law of Righteousness.

Romans 10:3 [FONT=&quot]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[/FONT]This is still very simple and referring back to Romans 9:32

Romans 9:32 [FONT=&quot]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

[/FONT]Those that are working at the law are still ignorant of the Righteousness of God.

Romans 10:4 [FONT=&quot]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[/FONT]This refers back to Romans 9:30 and Romans 3

Romans 9:30 [FONT=&quot]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Romans 3:21-22
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Seeing how easy this is to understand do you twist it because of ignorance or do you twist it knowingly?

Paul keeps saying the same thing, over and over, but each time you attempt to explain it away as not speaking about the 10 commandments but some other law. But when it seems convenient to you then all of a sudden that is definitely the 10 commandments.

Galatians 3:24-25
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[FONT=&quot]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The goal of the law and the end of the law, both at the same time. I love it when things are simple and tie together so nicely.


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[Hizikyah]

A Judaizer is someone who wishes to follow after the Law of Judaism. Would you deny that you are a Judaizer after this definition and not your made up one? Anyways, that's not the issue. The issue is should we, as Christians, continue to work at the law after we have come to Christ?


Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

The law of Righteousness? Is that the Pharisees made up law as you claim? No, of course not. Paul wouldn't call the pharisees made up law the law of Righteousness.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

This is still very simple and referring back to Romans 9:32

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Those that are working at the law are still ignorant of the Righteousness of God.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

This refers back to Romans 9:30 and Romans 3

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Romans 3:21-22
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Seeing how easy this is to understand do you twist it because of ignorance or do you twist it knowingly?

Paul keeps saying the same thing, over and over, but each time you attempt to explain it away as not speaking about the 10 commandments but some other law. But when it seems convenient to you then all of a sudden that is definitely the 10 commandments.

Galatians 3:24-25

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The goal of the law and the end of the law, both at the same time. I love it when things are simple and tie together so nicely.

YOu say all this But did Israei; actually follow Yah's law or wa the entire nation following the main stream religious sys of that time?

Also, Paul; himself says the Law is right and to be followed;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

and dont be decieved;

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:16, "”Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

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there is only one standard to decide properly what is sin amd what is righteousness, we can not get into the Kingdom on our own merits yet

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:16, "”Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]our Strength, as He has commanded us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:172, “My tongue sings of Your word, For all Your commands are righteousness.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”

One is good to do and one is not good to do.
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[Hizikyah]

Also how is it that the saints keep the Commands if it is wrong to?

I thank every one so far for their replies, this is an interesting discussion IMO and whever one stands I just want to show in the Word that guarding His Laws/Commandments is not wrong, as these guard the Commands and have faith in Yahshua/Jesus;


Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."


Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

 

[Grandpa]

YOu say all this But did Israei; actually follow Yah's law or wa the entire nation following the main stream religious sys of that time?

Also, Paul; himself says the Law is right and to be followed;

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."


Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."


Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

and dont be decieved;


Romans 6:16, "”Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”




1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."



there is only one standard to decide properly what is sin amd what is righteousness, we can not get into the Kingdom on our own merits yet

Romans 6:16, "”Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”

1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."​

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before יהוה our Strength, as He has commanded us.”


Psalm 119:172, “My tongue sings of Your word, For all Your commands are righteousness.”


Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”

One is good to do and one is not good to do.

Did Israel actually follow Gods Law? No. Because THEY THOUGHT IT WAS TO BE FOLLOWED BY THEIR WORK.

Romans 9:31-32
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;[/FONT]

But Paul shows us that the law can't be followed by our work. It can't be followed by our carnal will and understanding.

We can only follow the law by being dead to our works and alive to God. Abiding in Christ by faith.



Do you understand post #83 or are you just making up excuses now so you can remain a judaizer?

 

[Grandpa]

Also how is it that the saints keep the Commands if it is wrong to?

Its not wrong TO KEEP the commands.

But what is wrong is to try to work at them in your own strength and understanding. Because you can't do it.

Saying you keep commandments, thinking you keep commandments, doesn't necessarily mean you ARE keeping commandments.

This is really simple. You should be able to get this.

Romans 9:31-32
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

don't have to 'preach' but just 'live-by-His-example'...

Beautiful,

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[Hizikyah]

Its not wrong TO KEEP the commands.

But what is wrong is to try to work at them in your own strength and understanding. Because you can't do it.

Saying you keep commandments, thinking you keep commandments, doesn't necessarily mean you ARE keeping commandments.

This is really simple. You should be able to get this.

Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

I agree with this, with one small difference, Yah does guide, strengthen, teach, correct, etc. BUt He also gives us power and a choice between good and evil, and we have free will to choose what one we really want, choosing the path within His Commands is always goingto be the right choice, choosing the path outside His commandds is always goingto be the wrong one.

He gives us a life to choose what we will do.

Joshua 24:15, “And if it seems evil in your eyes to serve יהוה, choose for yourselves this day whom you are going to serve, whether the mighty ones which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the mighty ones of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But I and my house, we serve יהוה.”

John 7:17, “If anyone chooses to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from YHWH, or whether I speak from Myself.”

Also when have I ever spoken Commandment keeping for earning salvation? I have not, I speak it as the proper way to walk for the person cleansed by the blood of Yahshua/Jesus

 

[Grandpa]

I agree with this, with one small difference, Yah does guide, strengthen, teach, correct, etc. BUt He also gives us power and a choice between good and evil, and we have free will to choose what one we really want, choosing the path within His Commands is always goingto be the right choice, choosing the path outside His commandds is always goingto be the wrong one.

He gives us a life to choose what we will do.

Joshua 24:15, “And if it seems evil in your eyes to serve יהוה, choose for yourselves this day whom you are going to serve, whether the mighty ones which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the mighty ones of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But I and my house, we serve יהוה.”

John 7:17, “If anyone chooses to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from YHWH, or whether I speak from Myself.”

Also when have I ever spoken Commandment keeping for earning salvation? I have not, I speak it as the proper way to walk for the person cleansed by the blood of Yahshua/Jesus

Proper way to walk??

Hebrews 11:6 [FONT=&quot]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

[/FONT]Romans 9:31-32
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

I suppose walking by faith would be better. Without it we cannot be pleasing to God.

Do you just want to stubbornly walk after your own way instead of His? No matter what is pleasing to Him and what is not?

Do you think our walk of faith will cause us to break His Law? Only our strength and understanding can fulfill His Perfect Law and not His Own???

Isaiah 55:8-13
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the Lord for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

Galatians 5:22-23
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[FONT=&quot]22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

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[Hizikyah]

Proper way to walk??

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

I suppose walking by faith would be better. Without it we cannot be pleasing to God.

Do you just want to stubbornly walk after your own way instead of His? No matter what is pleasing to Him and what is not?

Do you think our walk of faith will cause us to break His Law? Only our strength and understanding can fulfill His Perfect Law and not His Own???

Isaiah 55:8-13

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the Lord for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

Galatians 5:22-23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

...........

yeah we are not to walk in sin.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]

​

Romans 6:16-20, “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness? But thanks to Yah that you were servants of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of teaching to which you were entrusted. And having been set free from sin, you became servants of righteousness. I speak as a man, because of the weakness of your flesh. For even as you did present your members as servants of uncleanness, and of lawlessness resulting in lawlessness, so now present your members as servants of righteousness resulting in set-apartness. For when you were servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin* that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]

​

 

[joaniemarie]

I agree with this, with one small difference, Yah does guide, strengthen, teach, correct, etc. BUt He also gives us power and a choice between good and evil, and we have free will to choose what one we really want, choosing the path within His Commands is always goingto be the right choice, choosing the path outside His commandds is always goingto be the wrong one.

He gives us a life to choose what we will do.

Joshua 24:15, “And if it seems evil in your eyes to serve יהוה, choose for yourselves this day whom you are going to serve, whether the mighty ones which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the mighty ones of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But I and my house, we serve יהוה.”

John 7:17, “If anyone chooses to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from YHWH, or whether I speak from Myself.”

Also when have I ever spoken Commandment keeping for earning salvation? I have not, I speak it as the proper way to walk for the person cleansed by the blood of Yahshua/Jesus

It's no small thing to rely on the Holy Spirit (now) that we are in the new covenant. Especially when we have been taught all our lives by our living on earth to be good and then we will be rewarded. We are called to no longer rely on our ability to keep the 10 commandments. We trade the 10 commandments (law) over for the Holy Spirit Who is waiting for us to listen to Him tell us about our righteousness of God IN Christ. The Holy Spirit will always point us to Jesus and our righteousness found only in Him.

Our choice as believers is do we follow inner working of the Holy Spirit in us., or following the law for our direction and guidance? The law leads to death., but the Spirit leads to life in Christ Jesus. Our righteousness comes via faith...., Faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.... not our ability to die on the cross. We have already been made righteous.... now we learn to walk IN that righteousness by faith. How nutty is it when we believers try to walk in our own righteousness when Jesus already gave us His??!

 

[joaniemarie]

Proper way to walk??

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

I suppose walking by faith would be better. Without it we cannot be pleasing to God.

Do you just want to stubbornly walk after your own way instead of His? No matter what is pleasing to Him and what is not?

Do you think our walk of faith will cause us to break His Law? Only our strength and understanding can fulfill His Perfect Law and not His Own???

Isaiah 55:8-13

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the Lord for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

Galatians 5:22-23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Amen Gramps!! Good post.

 

[stonesoffire]

Rom 7:6　 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.　

 

[stonesoffire]

Rom 7:4　 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.　

If one is not in the body of Christ, then I guess they better keep the letter...and perfectly since there is no more sacrifice of blood being offered.

 

[Desertsrose]

​Grace is all of what God is; none of what we are. We only receive and give grace through Christ who gave us grace upon grace through faith.

Grace speaks of the precious blood of Jesus that is the true riches one could ever have. Grace speaks of love, it's the giftings of the Spirit and it's the fruit of Him as well.

Righteous, obedience and justification, forgiveness, they are all a gift of God's grace. Grace is the power of God at work with us, so that we can work out what He works within us.

What God commands, faith says yes we can because it's God's grace at work within. All things are possible through Christ.

What we once didn't want to do, we now want to do ~ Grace upon grace!

 

[Hizikyah]

Si I agree, for we would all fall shory of Yah's standard if it were solely based upon our own deeds.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

So do poeple somehoiw think that means we only recieve mercy if we reject His Commands? Is this not the New Covenant?

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

Why does John say that it is love to guard Yah's Commands?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

and that the one who says they know Him but does not do, is a liar?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Is this Judaisim? or Judaizing?
[/FONT]

 

[stonesoffire]

Si I agree, for we would all fall shory of Yah's standard if it were solely based upon our own deeds.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

So do poeple somehoiw think that means we only recieve mercy if we reject His Commands? Is this not the New Covenant?

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

We see this differently Hiz, like I've been saying. The inheritance is all of what Jesus is and that is Sons.

Sons follow the leading of the Head for we are members of a body, the new and living way. Moving, living, having our being in Him. But, we tend to forget this when the trials of this earth hit us and we respond as if this is not truth.

For that, we are washed by the Word, sprinkled by His blood on our conscience. If it were about the laws being written, we would be no better off than the nation of Israel. We have a better covenant.

It's all about being one with Jesus, and one with others in the body. Walking together as one.

 

[Hizikyah]

We see this differently Hiz, like I've been saying. The inheritance is all of what Jesus is and that is Sons.

Sons follow the leading of the Head for we are members of a body, the new and living way. Moving, living, having our being in Him. But, we tend to forget this when the trials of this earth hit us and we respond as if this is not truth.

For that, we are washed by the Word, sprinkled by His blood on our conscience. If it were about the laws being written, we would be no better off than the nation of Israel. We have a better covenant.

It's all about being one with Jesus, and one with others in the body. Walking together as one.

SO do you believe this is the New Covenant being spoken of here;

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

(quoted from Jeremiah 31:33)