What would be your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib rapture?
My Church teaches it, all the good teachers I know teach it and everyone and their momma believes in it, but its largely foreign in Church history (or things are snipped outta context by pre-tribbers to try to prove it, which I will forgive cause aint nobody got time to read all the church fathers' and many of them are in error too).
I cant see it as being something like: "Yo heres a verse..." it seems to be more like the kind of doctrine that requires some seeds planted and questions asked and saying thats to a different group and making charts showing "differences" between rapture verses and second coming verses. They can be differences OR its just the same event and its trouble to unbelievers and rest to believers like in 2 thessalonians 1:7-9. It depends on how you look at it. BEFORE anyone says it, YES I know the TRINITY is kind of like that too! Which is SAD to me, wish we had a clear ONE VERSE for the trinity, but WHO AM I to complain?
Some proofs I have heard, which all are good imo:
-Jesus wont put His body through wrath AGAIN
-People are RETURNING from heaven with Jesus in Rev 19, so they need to be up there before that return
-The bridegroom parable from Matthew 25
-John 14:1-3 literally cant be fulfilled in historical premillennialism, only in amill,postmill and dispensational premillennialism (correct me if im wrong)
I guess the point of this thread is: IF someone asked you: "Hey, show me the pre-trib rapture in the Bible?" WHERE would you take them? What would be your GO-TO verse(s)?
Hello Hevosmies,
First I would correct the first one to read:
-Jesus wont put His body through wrath ever!.
You used the word "AGAIN" which would infer that He had previously put His body through His wrath. When did He do that? The answer to that is "Never!"
It is important to understand that the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would go through are not the same as the wrath of God, but come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness.
There is a specific time period coming upon this earth known as the tribulation period, also called the "day of the Lord," which is when God will be pouring out His wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and once they are started will continue until Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. It is this coming wrath that believers are not appointed to suffer. Let us not confuse the two, which is one of the major ongoing problems in interpreting end-time events.
In order to understand why believers will not go through God's wrath, it is important to understand the underlying principal.
Before we believed, God's wrath rested upon us because of sin. After we believed, we were credited with Christ's righteousness and reconciled to God, which means that we were brought back into a right relationship with God through faith in Christ. Because of this God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and that because Jesus took upon himself God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Therefore, for believer's to go through God's wrath would nullify Jesus fulfillment of it. It would be like a double payment. This is why I always teach that it is important to understand the underlying principle of this. In addition, we have scriptures which state that we are not going to go through His wrath. If we did, then we would be suffering the same wrath as the wicked would be suffering. And those who have this idea that God is going to protect His church during His time of wrath, have no understanding of the severity and magnitude of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and the resulting fatalities.
Once we understand that what is coming is God's specific time of wrath which will be seven years in length and will continue right up to when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, then it should be clear by this alone that since believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath for this reason we cannot enter into that time of wrath and therefore, we must be removed prior to its on-set.
Understanding the timing of the Lord's promise to come and get us as found in in John 14:1-3 and I Thess.4:16-18, is deduced by studying, understanding and utilizing all related end-time scriptures. Regarding this, Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit would remind us of all that Jesus said and reveal things yet to come (John 16:13). God has hidden in His word clues which He reveals to those who are diligently seeking the answers. Unfortunately, at the same time we also have many false teachers, which we were told were going to come in among us.
It is as simple as considering that, either Jesus took upon himself the wrath that believers deserve and reconciling us to God, or He didn't. Those who teach that the church is going through that time of wrath are simply not believing in that underlying principal.
John 14:1-3 is the promise and I Thessalonians 4:13-18 is the fulfillment of John 14:1-3
When Jesus appears to gather the church, He is not returning to the earth to end the age, which is the error of many who make these two as being the same event. They attempt to discredit this by saying "Jesus is not returning twice," which is correct, He's not. When He comes to gather the church, He is going to meet those who will have just resurrected and the living who will have been changed, which will make up the entire church from beginning to end, where He will take the entire church, His bride, back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us. After we have been removed, then God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will rage upon the unfaithful, where shortly after the seventh bowl judgment, Jesus will return which will be the fulfillment of Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.1:7.
Below is a mini summary of the chronological order of end time events.
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You are here
Church called up and removed from the earth (John 14:1-3, I Thess.4:13-18)
God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments carried out over seven years (Revelation chapters 6 thru 18)
The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish his kingdom (Matt.24:29-31, Rev.1:17, 19:11-21)
, believers resurrect in the spirit and indwell other living believers and this will continue until the end of age.
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