What Laws are still valid to christians
- Thread starter vic1980
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Why don't you go ahead and show us what verses in Leviticus 26 you're talking about. And also then ones in Galatians that I need to read. While you're at it, why don't you quote some verses from Jesus about how He thinks believers should live in regards to the law.
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
Which seed are you (to everybody here)? The seed that follows directions of Yahweh or the seed that fights those who follow directions of Yahweh?
Which seed are you (to everybody here)? The seed that follows directions of Yahweh or the seed that fights those who follow directions of Yahweh?
i follow them out of my own desire. The power to accomplish anything in this world, Torah or not is because God allows me to.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Well that knocks of self righteousness. (my own desire. God allows ME etc etc) This is why you are being fought so much.
Anything we do for self. even though it is good, it is sin. That is the problem of trying to follow a law. It is for self interest. Not for God. And why the law never made anyone righteous.
circumcision of the heart is actually what it is really about. And that is only done by god through believing God I rest now, anyone else?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
How about just a snippet?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]‘If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;
you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
[SUP]6[/SUP]I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid;
I will rid the land of evil beasts,
Tell me. Whas this given to the church? What land? I am sure you were either joking by asking this, Or maybe you did not know. But hopefully you see it now.
These commands include circumcision.
As for galations. Why do you think Paul said, if your going to be circumcised, your indebted to follow the whole law. As I showed yesterday, As God said, Cursed is EVERYONE who does not accept and OBEY every law. Well would this not be all of us?? Have you obeyed ALL the law??
As for Jesus., Did he go to law abiding citizens, or sinners? Why?
Did he forgive continually sinners? or just people who were good people following his law?
Who do you think it is who follows his commands?
1. People who follow the law? or
2. people who come to saving faith. look to God, Trust him in all things and seek to do his will in their life at any given moment?
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Is there any other way possible, I think not, other than receiving the free gift of being born again in the Spirit of God by Faith in the resurrected Christ, where that is where new life is sustained is it not?
I think you might be wrong in assuming this of Matt:
Tell us Matt if you want is your motive this for to know the living God or for self gain?
1) Those who follow the Messiah are Israyl now, a seed of Abraham.
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then
you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
2) Tell me one Law you can break and not recieve the curses named in Leviticus (besides instant death penalty) may you fornicate? No, STDs, may you animal husbandry? No, STDs. May you steal? No, you will be cursing yourself and who you stole from.. Worship gods? No, one will lose Yahweh's protection no matter what Law they break, even tose that have accepted the Messiah, we can still have merc through confession to Yahweh and repentance, but none the less if we commit sin the curses still apply. Why do you tjhink children get cancer, the curses from breaking Yahweh's Laws. Why are whole nations in poverty? The curses from breaking Yahweh's Laws. ETC ETC ETC.
Here is an endtime prophecy, where the world is in chaos, cursed, and even destroyed because the breaking of Yahweh's Laws:
Isayah 24:4-6, "The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."
Lukje 24:25, "Then He said to them: O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"
Looking back on what I said, I think I need to clarify..
I initiate following them out of my own desire, but the ability or power to do any of it is only because of the Spirit's power in me.
I think its along the same lines as doing anything in this world. I want to wake up in the morning and go to work, but I can only do it because God allows me to.
ONly one following yahweh;s Spirit may do anything of Yahweh;s righteous will.
But you did not answer the question:
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
Which seed are you (to everybody here)? The seed that follows directions of Yahweh or the seed that fights those who follow directions of Yahweh?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yet God will allow you to go cheat on your wife. or go steal from your neighbor. This is not saying much again. Lets be truthfull here
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
That is not what lev 26 is about.
God had just given Moses the completion of his law (the torah) lev 26 is the blessing or cursing of those who follow or do not follow it.
God is not going to give you land, rain in season, peace from your enemies etc etc if you follow Gods law today. Thus it does not relate to us.
Rom 9 speaks of spiritual Israel yes, But that is for salvation purposes. Has nothing to do with mosaic law. or the blessing God promised to Israel as a nation.
So are you saying as long as one has accepted the Messiah they may transgrees Yahweh's Laws all they want with no curses at all?
Tell me one Law you can break and not recieve the curses named in Leviticus (besides instant death penalty) may you fornicate? No, STDs, may you animal husbandry? No, STDs. May you steal? No, you will be cursing yourself and who you stole from.. Worship gods? No, one will lose Yahweh's protection no matter what Law they break, even tose that have accepted the Messiah, we can still have merc through confession to Yahweh and repentance, but none the less if we commit sin the curses still apply. Why do you tjhink children get cancer, the curses from breaking Yahweh's Laws. Why are whole nations in poverty? The curses from breaking Yahweh's Laws. ETC ETC ETC.
Here is an endtime prophecy, where the world is in chaos, cursed, and even destroyed because the breaking of Yahweh's Laws:
Isayah 24:4-6, "The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."
Lukje 24:25, "Then He said to them: O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"
This was given to God's people. If you'd like to make the distinction between Jews and Gentile, that's fine. We'll disagree on that.
Again, Paul's comments in Galatians regarding circumcision is all about coming against those who seek circumcision for standing before God. Again, I am not. If you refuse to accept my stance on that, I obviously can't change that.
Both people can and do follow the commands. But only those who have that faith and trust in Jesus' sacrifice can understand and experience the full breadth of the commands.
I keep going back to Jesus' commands that His followers are to follow the law and to teach others to do so. No amount of verses from Paul change that. No amount of man-made reasoning can change that. Jesus' words are the original Gospel. If Jesus says we are to follow the Law, Paul must agree with Him. Therefore all of the verses where Paul apparently speaks against the law have been misinterpreted.
Very few people in here have dealt with Jesus's words in Matthew 5. People are quick to address the 1 word "fulfill". People are very quick to quote Paul. Very few take a look at all of Matthew 5 to see what He says about the Law.
If I willfully choose to, He'll let me.
I'm not able to love others fully, unless He gives me the ability. I may want to, but I fail sometimes. When I fail, its on me. When I succeed, it's on Him.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol.. This makes no sense.
when I do Good, God gets credit, When I do bad. it is my fault.. So much for the power of God.
How about putting yourself in a position to see what God wants you to do right now. If you do this, you will not need the law. Or need to worry about who gets credit. You will not think of Sin, Of Self or anything but what is put in front of you. You will not sin, And you did not follow some law book.
That is how God wants us to be, not follow some law/.