What Laws are still valid to christians

[zone]

Darn... Never thought of that. Sorry. I'll remember next time. Sorry for not being more repulsive.

repulsive? no, you sound awesome.

 

[just-me]

So correct me here.....because we are no longer under "The Law " then this explains why so many Christians find it perfectly okay to bring in pagan traditions and say that they are doing it unto God and that is okay?....what does God say about that?

No correction necessary.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So correct me here.....because we are no longer under "The Law " then this explains why so many Christians find it perfectly okay to bring in pagan traditions and say that they are doing it unto God and that is okay?....what does God say about that?

No. That would not be an excuse. If someone was saved and loved God because he loved them, they would not do this, Law or no law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I never said that it could and never will. You’re preaching to the choir.

I am? You keep going back to it. So what other reason would you need to continue to go to it?

Again. I agree that the law can’t save us. Wasn’t meant to save us.

Then you admit that it is week. And the reason God had to send his son. So why do you keep fighting it?

There you have the law strength. Wonderful!!

lol. Wonderfull? I have continued to say this. You act as if I just figured it out

There’s where you are not listening to what I’ve been saying. It had power over us until Christ. It still has power to show us our carnal nature that we all have even after salvation. It shows us our weakness, and our weakness will always be there in the carnal nature even though we are no longer under it.

Which is what I have been saying all along. Again you seem to be suprised? yet you continue to disagree with me.. why is that?

I never said that I was trying to be righteous by the law. That has never worked and it never will. That’s self righteousness.

Yet is is what separates us from God is it not? even you admitted this in the question you still have failed to answer.

All of God is righteous, and all the Words He has ever spoke are righteous. All of what He has shown us is righteous. And what he has shown to us through His righteous Word is that we (carnal nature still with us after salvation) are unrighteous. Hope that makes sense to you.

Yes it does.

But again this is not the point.,

The law is week in that it can not save us, You just admitted it. So why are you arguing against it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's right. Couldn't agree more. maybe should have incorporated that in the rhetorical questions. The conversation has gone to the strength of what gives us the capability to die to self daily.

The law does not cause us to die daily to Christ. Where do you get this??

The power of God and his love, And our faith in him as a father is what gives us the power.

 

[Josh321]

the whole counsel of God - the NT primarily, for in it is the Gospel...and everything needful (certainly enough commandments for our good) for the Christian sanctification and life. the OT is still the counsel of God...but would you prefer to get your instructions from the texts ("manual" and history) your Boss sent out 3000 years ago to the people to whom He revealed His future plan?

or would you read the future Plan in which everything was revealed? The Last Will and Testament of Jesus Christ?
Jesus had to die for the New Will to take effect. why would we go to the Old Will and Testament (which was superceded by the New)?

Jesus and His disciples reiterated every single commandment from God that God desires us to come into obedience to - in the NT. this is not a call to separate or discard the whole counsel of God. that would be discarding half of the History and revealtion of our God to us.

just to discern that everything Christians (the free men) need was confirmed by the Lord Jesus, in keeping with the New Covenant.

the fact.. that there is a old testament and a new testament.. i guess old is the new for some people?

 

[just-me]

The law does not cause us to die daily to Christ. Where do you get this??

The power of God and his love, And our faith in him as a father is what gives us the power.

I use it, along with the rest of the Word. I need to be lead to Christ daily, according to areas where I have a lack of faith. It works as my school master but when the faith comes I remember the way to come to Christ, and follow Him with the cross I've been given. I don't have faith to remove many metaphorical mountains, and I continue to be strengthened, and my faith continues to be built up. Day by day. Let these scriptures speak to your heart so that you can know this brother better. Please.

1 Corinthians 13:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.


2 Corinthians 10:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,

1 Corinthians 13:9-12 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[just-me]

The law is week in that it can not save us, You just admitted it. So why are you arguing against it?

If any Words that God have ever spoken are weak, then call it weak. That's your prerogative. I say, and will continue to say that all the Words of God will never pass away, and all He has ever said and will say are very strong and righteous. If you don't want to admit you are weak, and the law shows you that you are, then live with it. You will find out in time, I just hope it isn't too late for you.

 

[Josh321]

So correct me here.....because we are no longer under "The Law " then this explains why so many Christians find it perfectly okay to bring in pagan traditions and say that they are doing it unto God and that is okay?....what does God say about that?

YES. this is what i was waiting to see, this particular thing right here, where someone says well if we are to not follow the law we can do whatever.. my brother.. when we are baptised.. and born of God we have a new nature... in other words, before our nature was to sin, do you see? it was all we know to do, but now all we know to do is be righteous we won't be trying to be righteous we would just be through the holy spirit, so nothing like that won't ever come to mind

 

[just-me]

The law is week in that it can not save us, You just admitted it. So why are you arguing against it?

This verse contradicts your thoughts. The law is part of the Word of God and this verse does not discriminate His Word. Let the Word of God speak to you about the Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick , and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Hoffco]

Paul said, "The law of God is spiritual ... good... with the mind I myself serve the law of God", Roman 7:14,16,25 This passage alone should be enough to prove that we are still under some part of the law of God. And the rest of the N.T, tells us, we are still under the moral laws of God as all generations have been since Adam. The problem is not the law of God, it is the sinfulness of man. BUT the new birth fixes the heart of man so now we can keep the law God.. We love the law of God,(His Bible and His commandments.) Yet, we are only under the New Covenant laws and only the moral desire to obey God's moral law is written on our heart in the new birth, the specific laws are not written on our heart, but the desire to learn and obey them is on our heart. And this is proven by the New Testament writings. One has to be deceived or deceitful not to see this. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Christians are never to have a passive attitudes toward sin and righteousness, We are in a battle against sin. we must have the armor of God to fight sin, we must forcefully pursue the right things and kill the bad things. But ,I would agree, the more you practice the right, the less you have to be concerned over the evil. I wear christian t shirts and I have never been approached by a prostitute ,in all my life. I repel them ,they are all around me here in the Philippines; but it is no big temptation to me, I not given to it, I am given to obeying God' laws. love Hoffco

 

[cfultz3]

Paul said, "The law of God is spiritual ... good... with the mind I myself serve the law of God", Roman 7:14,16,25 This passage alone should be enough to prove that we are still under some part of the law of God. And the rest of the N.T, tells us, we are still under the moral laws of God as all generations have been since Adam. The problem is not the law of God, it is the sinfulness of man. BUT the new birth fixes the heart of man so now we can keep the law God.. We love the law of God,(His Bible and His commandments.) Yet, we are only under the New Covenant laws and only the moral desire to obey God's moral law is written on our heart in the new birth, the specific laws are not written on our heart, but the desire to learn and obey them is on our heart. And this is proven by the New Testament writings. One has to be deceived or deceitful not to see this. Love to all, Hoffco

No one is arguing, from what I can see, that we are not under Law. But, are we under the Law from the Old Covenant or the New Covenant? Are we under: "do and do not do" (obedience from our flesh) or are we under "love" (obedience from our spirit)?

 

[Least]

No one is arguing, from what I can see, that we are not under Law. But, are we under the Law from the Old Covenant or the New Covenant? Are we under: "do and do not do" (obedience from our flesh) or are we under "love" (obedience from our spirit)?

The bible addresses not only the spiritual but also the flesh in this matter.

1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Several of the ten commandments are actually in the 1 Corinthians passage.

 

[Hizikyah]

Paul said, "The law of God is spiritual ... good... with the mind I myself serve the law of God", Roman 7:14,16,25 This passage alone should be enough to prove that we are still under some part of the law of God. And the rest of the N.T, tells us, we are still under the moral laws of God as all generations have been since Adam. The problem is not the law of God, it is the sinfulness of man. BUT the new birth fixes the heart of man so now we can keep the law God.. We love the law of God,(His Bible and His commandments.) Yet, we are only under the New Covenant laws and only the moral desire to obey God's moral law is written on our heart in the new birth, the specific laws are not written on our heart, but the desire to learn and obey them is on our heart. And this is proven by the New Testament writings. One has to be deceived or deceitful not to see this. Love to all, Hoffco

Im sure we are all farmilliar with Galatains 5, "the fruits of the Spirit and the fruits of the flesh"

EVERY SINGLE fruit of the Spirit is permitted and Commanded in Yahweh's Law

EVERY SINGLE fruit of the flesh is prohibited in Yahweh's Law and is therefore sin.

Truth is people who are in oppisition to Yahweh's Law are in oppisition to Yahweh.

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mattithyah 5:18 "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 24:35, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words will not pass away."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Which seed are you? The seed that follows directions or the seed that fights those who follow directions?

 

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by Hizikyah
Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

So clearly Yahshua is against these Pharisical laws in the Talmud. So why is it 8 chapters later He tells us to "do all they say?"

Something is not right here. I was always bothered by this verse, until the truth set me free.

Every translation reads as such, as all Greek texts read this way:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3

"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

However Yahweh has left us truth!

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

The NT was written in Greek.

This man's translation does not agree with the Greek of the NT.

Jesus was supporting the authority of the Pharisees, not because they were right,
but because they were the authorized successors of Moses as teachers of the law.

Just as Paul respected the authority of the High Priest, Ananias, whom Paul did not know
was the High Priest, when he ordered those standing near Paul to strike him on the mouth.
Paul called Ananias a whitewashed wall for being a hypocrite.

They told Paul that Anaias was the High Priest, and Paul repented of his comment.
(Ac 23:1-5)

There is no Biblical warrant for this Hebrew translation of Mt 23:2-3 which disagrees
with its original language, Greek.

Then why do you follow the Greek, or is that just another Command that one doesnt care about?

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you"

You better go get you a vile Talmud and obey the rabbis then?????

 

[just-me]

Im sure we are all farmilliar with Galatains 5, "the fruits of the Spirit and the fruits of the flesh"

EVERY SINGLE fruit of the Spirit is permitted and Commanded in Yahweh's Law

EVERY SINGLE fruit of the flesh is prohibited in Yahweh's Law and is therefore sin.

Truth is people who are in oppisition to Yahweh's Law are in oppisition to Yahweh.

Very well put, so I had to look for myself.

Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Leviticus 19:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

1 Kings 1:40 (KJV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And all the people came up after him, and the people piped with pipes, and rejoiced with great joy, so that the earth rent with the sound of them.

Exodus 18:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.

Exodus 34:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

2 Samuel 22:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy gentleness hath made me great.

Deuteronomy 32:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Habakkuk 2:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

*Faith is/was ordained as an Old Testament principle to be kept as a priority in the New Testament.

Numbers 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP](Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

Deuteronomy 4:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

Romans 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, *The just shall live by faith.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Then why do you follow the Greek, or is that just another Command that one doesnt care about?

We follow the Greek because that is the language it was written in and conveys the thoughts and intentions of the author and GOD.

It is so revealing of your spirit that you are more inclined to believe something found in an anti-Christian document written centuries after Matthew was written, rather than the original itself.

 

[Graybeard]

No. That would not be an excuse. If someone was saved and loved God because he loved them, they would not do this, Law or no law.

YES. this is what i was waiting to see, this particular thing right here, where someone says well if we are to not follow the law we can do whatever.. my brother.. when we are baptised.. and born of God we have a new nature... in other words, before our nature was to sin, do you see? it was all we know to do, but now all we know to do is be righteous we won't be trying to be righteous we would just be through the holy spirit, so nothing like that won't ever come to mind

Now when I look around I see that the majority of Christians ARE doing just that......and because most are doing it then it must be okay. Most Christians ignore what God has said about pagan AND traditions of man...why do they do this?

 

[Hizikyah]

We follow the Greek because that is the language it was written in and conveys the thoughts and intentions of the author and GOD.

It is so revealing of your spirit that you are more inclined to believe something found in an anti-Christian document written centuries after Matthew was written, rather than the original itself.

according to Dead Sea scroll scholars the Hebrew is more original than the greek (Matt), but who am I to know? I am no scholar.

Well my question stands to you...

Then why dont you follow the Greek, and obey the command of the Pharisees? Or is that just another Command that one doesnt care about?

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you"

""Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do"

You better go get you a vile Talmud and obey the rabbis then?????