What REALLY is Faith That Scripture Upholds?

[Musicmaster]

There is a trying to do Law, a trying to be perfect like Jesus is and revealed in his earth walk.
Yet no other person can do it perfectly ever
Father today is not pleased in works of the flesh., that be Romans 7 and 8 that explains this, which only Father in. truth in Spirit and Truth can explain it to each person personally first.

Under Law one, anyone under it is under a curse. The law itself is not the curse. The curse is the first born flesh people, needing the new life offered in the risen Son.

Then my Quote
And one responds, stops trying to create, thanks

God is the creator, we the people are the responders. Having reprobate mindsets to choose whatever we choose to be righteous or not. So we are fist born creating, learning to from first birth forward after our frist two years of crying for whatever we want. Then!
We start the complaining, wanting and getting authority over us
Then we are taught to be independent, not dependent on God. Confusing! Plced under Authority, many times wrong authority.
So see, respond to the love and mercy of God for you and be new in love and mercy to all too, God Father leading in God Father's Spirit and Truth. The same as Jesus did first on earth John 4:23-24 Hebrews 7:11-12
God will reveal to you this truth in God's timing as God knows best and wants best for us all Jeremiah 29:11

The Law is not yet passed away. That's not to say that we must try to live it today and that doing so will earn us any rewards. What I've come to understand about the Law is that its existence today is the force of indictment against unbelief. It's also by the Law that we know what sin is, as Paul declared. The writers of Hebrews gave to us the clue about the Law still in force today against the unbelieving world:

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the present tense of the above statement. Hebrews, which is thought to have been written some 30 years after Christ's ascension. Where it's true that some out there like to think that tense within the texts of scriptures have no real meaning, that wishful thinking is nothing but an attempt to try and preserve one's chosen beliefs over against the scriptures they give lip service to being authoritative...so long as those scriptures don't interfere with chosen beliefs...

With our being dead to the Law and therefore no longer under its curse nor a requirement for obedience unto the Law for our salvation, some out there still practice it religiously, such as my Messianic friends. That's not to say they are wrong for doing so, but when some make it a matter of salvation, that's when the problems begin.

MM

 

[Nedsk]

Jesus alone saves us from the wages of sin which is death in Hell. Roman 6:23, Revelation 21:8 KJV
Nobody can add anything to that sacrifice He suffered on our behalf.

When it comes to those saved brethren, believers in Christ, there will be times when we have opportunities to exercise that faith in respect to helping our brother or sister who is in need. I love my brothers and sisters for helping me when I nearly lost it all following a series of unspoken tragedies. I'll ever be grateful to Those believers who had faith put that into action to help. God has promised to bless those who do.

See the difference between saving faith and the faith of the Heaven bound believers that is tested?

"No one can add anything to that sacrifice He suffered on our behalf"

Wow it's amazing how so many of you people just can't seem to lay attention. It's almost as if some programming kicks in

 

[Watchman22]

The Law is not yet passed away. That's not to say that we must try to live it today and that doing so will earn us any rewards. What I've come to understand about the Law is that its existence today is the force of indictment against unbelief. It's also by the Law that we know what sin is, as Paul declared. The writers of Hebrews gave to us the clue about the Law still in force today against the unbelieving world:

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the present tense of the above statement. Hebrews, which is thought to have been written some 30 years after Christ's ascension. Where it's true that some out there like to think that tense within the texts of scriptures have no real meaning, that wishful thinking is nothing but an attempt to try and preserve one's chosen beliefs over against the scriptures they give lip service to being authoritative...so long as those scriptures don't interfere with chosen beliefs...

With our being dead to the Law and therefore no longer under its curse nor a requirement for obedience unto the Law for our salvation, some out there still practice it religiously, such as my Messianic friends. That's not to say they are wrong for doing so, but when some make it a matter of salvation, that's when the problems begin.

MM

If you think anyone can fulfill the law in anyway shape or form, you don't understand what the law is.

Christ fulfilled the law, the law is over!

The law understood right is that to fulfill any of it, you must fulfill every jot and tittle of it. If you even have a thought of anger, lust, etc, just for a millisecond, you fell short! There's no such thing as fulfilling part of it and receiving rewards for that.

Anyone is welcome to try and be the second one to fulfill the law , but the second one to fulfill the law will only be seen when we stand before the Father and He sees Christ. And that can only happen by faith, by a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

 

[Nedsk]

If you think anyone can fulfill the law in anyway shape or form, you don't understand what the law is.

Christ fulfilled the law, the law is over!

The law understood right is that to fulfill any of it, you must fulfill every jot and tittle of it. If you even have a thought of anger, lust, etc, just for a millisecond, you fell short! There's no such thing as fulfilling part of it and receiving rewards for that.

Anyone is welcome to try and be the second one to fulfill the law , but the second one to fulfill the law will only be seen when we stand before the Father and He sees Christ. And that can only happen by faith, by a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

So do you ever experience anger, lust, etc now?

 

[Watchman22]

So do you ever experience anger, lust, etc now?

Of course I do. Why do you ask?

But it's not me doing it, it's sin dwelling in me that's doing it,

 

[Nedsk]

Of course I do. Why do you ask?

But it's not me doing it, it's sin dwelling in me that's doing it,

Oh I see so it's not in your control. Like Flip Wilson used to say, "The devil made me do it".

 

[Watchman22]

Oh I see so it's not in your control. Like Flip Wilson used to say, "The devil made me do it".

No it's like what Paul said in Rom. 7: 14-25 where he explains perfectly what our state of being is in Christ . You might have heard of it, it's called sanctification.

You really need to find a gifted teacher. After you start a legitimate faith life of course.

 

[Nedsk]

No it's like what Paul said in Rom. 7: 14-25 where he explains perfectly what our state of being is in Christ . You might have heard of it, it's called sanctification.

You really need to find a gifted teacher. After you start a legitimate faith life of course.

I see so in your mind youre a Christian but in your body youre not. Whatever your body is doing is not relevant to the faith that exist in your mind. So are we arent capable of doing good?

 

[Watchman22]

I see so in your mind youre a Christian but in your body youre not. Whatever your body is doing is not relevant to the faith that exist in your mind. So are we arent capable of doing good?

I've given you some really good advice, for you and your household. Your one of the called out ones or we wouldn't be talking.

God is waiting for your personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . Once that happens and it's a legitimate surrender, God will begin to guide you into some basic truths that by your replies are lacking so far.

This discourse is getting into the deeper paradoxical truths of God, and i don't think your qualified to go there yet. I'm saying this to you out of love and responsibility to those good deeds you referenced.

 

[Nedsk]

I've given you some really good advice, for you and your household. Your one of the called out ones or we wouldn't be talking.

God is waiting for your personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . Once that happens and it's a legitimate surrender, God will begin to guide you into some basic truths that by your replies are lacking so far.

This discourse is getting into the deeper paradoxical truths of God, and i don't think your qualified to go there yet. I'm saying this to you out of love and responsibility to those good deeds you referenced.

But you believe you're qualified to "go there" based on what exactly? Why is your advice authoritative over my own understanding or the advice of others? You have no idea about my life but you believe you do. It's astounding to me that you really can't hear yourself. Just tell me why your advice is superior to anyone else's? I hope you can appreciate my eternal soul hangs in the balance so if I listen to you and you're wrong then what? Do I get a do over?

 

[Watchman22]

But you believe you're qualified to "go there" based on what exactly? Why is your advice authoritative over my own understanding or the advice of others? You have no idea about my life but you believe you do. It's astounding to me that you really can't hear yourself. Just tell me why your advice is superior to anyone else's? I hope you can appreciate my eternal soul hangs in the balance so if I listen to you and you're wrong then what? Do I get a do over?

Maybe you should just trust that God sent you the right message at the right time.

If you don't see that, then thats on me, please disregard.

 

[Musicmaster]

If you think anyone can fulfill the law in anyway shape or form, you don't understand what the law is.

That's not at all what I was saying. Please read it again for what I said. Thanks

Christ fulfilled the law, the law is over!

For all who are in Christ, yes.

The law understood right is that to fulfill any of it, you must fulfill every jot and tittle of it. If you even have a thought of anger, lust, etc, just for a millisecond, you fell short! There's no such thing as fulfilling part of it and receiving rewards for that.

I agree. Fulfillment is not at all what I had addressed.

Anyone is welcome to try and be the second one to fulfill the law , but the second one to fulfill the law will only be seen when we stand before the Father and He sees Christ. And that can only happen by faith, by a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

As to the Law, it is the means by which we know what sin is, and also Hebrews clearly states that the Law had not yet passed away. I quote that above,

MM

 

[Watchman22]

That's not at all what I was saying. Please read it again for what I said. Thanks



For all who are in Christ, yes.



I agree. Fulfillment is not at all what I had addressed.



As to the Law, it is the means by which we know what sin is, and also Hebrews clearly states that the Law had not yet passed away. I quote that above,

MM

My apologies if I misunderstood your post.

 

[John146]

Although we can trust the scriptures in English, it's also of value to discover the deeper meanings of key words throughout scripture in contrast to Westernized Christianity.

MM

Let's not forget about whose faith justifies the believer.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The faith of Jesus Christ justifies the believer. We live by the faith of the Son of God who loved us and gave his life for us.

 

[Musicmaster]

My apologies if I misunderstood your post.

No problem, my friend. Just for reference:

========================
The Law is not yet passed away. That's not to say that we must try to live it today and that doing so will earn us any rewards. What I've come to understand about the Law is that its existence today is the force of indictment against unbelief. It's also by the Law that we know what sin is, as Paul declared. The writers of Hebrews gave to us the clue about the Law still in force today against the unbelieving world:

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
========================

The writers of Hebrews indeed gave to us insurmountable evidence that the Law, as the defining authority for sin, is still in force today, especially as the dividing between the believers who die and go to Heaven and those who go to the torment side of Sheol to await judgment after the Millennium.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

There are numerous verses throughout the NT that appeal to the continued existence of the force of the Law. We only are made dead to the Law through Christ Jesus and by His grace toward us on the basis of faith.

I totally agree with you, then, that the Law is no longer a concern to us who are in Christ other than to recognize that it is still in force against those we should be trying to save from its curse because of their unbelief. If the Law were destroyed, then it would make no sense for Paul to appeal to something passed away as a defining authority for sin. This, for some reason, is a paradox that some professing believers today can't seem to grasp by simply reading what scripture says as opposed to what they hear from their false teaching pastors and Bible study chums, or one of the many false teachers on TV, the internet, et al.

Does that help?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

I noticed that political correctness is still making inroads into the "Christian" realm of interactions in culture. A possible example of this is the fact that there are no longer emoticons available as reactions to posts any longer. There may have been complaints about some of the less than glowing review type emoticons did harm to overly sensitive feelings, and possibly even racist...

MM

 

[Nedsk]

Maybe you should just trust that God sent you the right message at the right time.

If you don't see that, then thats on me, please disregard.

I do trust God when I read his word and don't listen to randos on the Internet who tell me the words im reading don't mean what the words mean.

 

[Musicmaster]

I do trust God when I read his word and don't listen to randos on the Internet who tell me the words im reading don't mean what the words mean.

Good point. As you've likely experienced as well, are those out there who read some English translation that has an English word that has multiple definitions...some of which can be exact opposites, and inevitably, the armchair linguists will settle upon a definition of choice, upon which they then formulate their own theological construct, all without consulting a credible Greek Lexicon or Hebrew Dictionary with lexical references for which definition is consistent with the ancient idioms, context and grammatical constructs.

So, yes, reading the Bible for self is indeed a good thing, but many people out there need to be educated on how to find the deeper truths that can and do focus the meaning and intent into a more narrow scope than the subjectivists out there want to believe.

MM

 

[Watchman22]

No problem, my friend. Just for reference:

========================
The Law is not yet passed away. That's not to say that we must try to live it today and that doing so will earn us any rewards. What I've come to understand about the Law is that its existence today is the force of indictment against unbelief. It's also by the Law that we know what sin is, as Paul declared. The writers of Hebrews gave to us the clue about the Law still in force today against the unbelieving world:

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
========================

The writers of Hebrews indeed gave to us insurmountable evidence that the Law, as the defining authority for sin, is still in force today, especially as the dividing between the believers who die and go to Heaven and those who go to the torment side of Sheol to await judgment after the Millennium.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

There are numerous verses throughout the NT that appeal to the continued existence of the force of the Law. We only are made dead to the Law through Christ Jesus and by His grace toward us on the basis of faith.

I totally agree with you, then, that the Law is no longer a concern to us who are in Christ other than to recognize that it is still in force against those we should be trying to save from its curse because of their unbelief. If the Law were destroyed, then it would make no sense for Paul to appeal to something passed away as a defining authority for sin. This, for some reason, is a paradox that some professing believers today can't seem to grasp by simply reading what scripture says as opposed to what they hear from their false teaching pastors and Bible study chums, or one of the many false teachers on TV, the internet, et al.

Does that help?

MM

Admittedly, my understanding of the mosaic law only goes so far.

I understand that the book of Hebrews was written at that time for the Hebrews. I as a Gentile grafted on, i understand Christ to be the law incarnate. He as His words tell me what sin is.

As for my understanding of faith, which is the fulfillment of pisteuo, a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. When God accepted my surrendered life, the law and many other things are nolonger any of my business anymore, those things are Gods business now.

So I don't know why the mosaic law has any bearing on anything for us today. When we stand before the Father, He's going to see Christ, the embodiment of the completed law. Not the law itself.

I think I'm on the same page with you, I just consider the law to be none of my business now.

 

[Nedsk]

Admittedly, my understanding of the mosaic law only goes so far.

I understand that the book of Hebrews was written at that time for the Hebrews. I as a Gentile grafted on, i understand Christ to be the law incarnate. He as His words tell me what sin is.

As for my understanding of faith, which is the fulfillment of pisteuo, a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. When God accepted my surrendered life, the law and many other things are nolonger any of my business anymore, those things are Gods business now.

So I don't know why the mosaic law has any bearing on anything for us today. When we stand before the Father, He's going to see Christ, the embodiment of the completed law. Not the law itself.

I think I'm on the same page with you, I just consider the law to be none of my business now.

How do you know what the father will see when you stand before him? You know the mind of God?

Matt 25:31-46. That's all irrelevant nonsense right? That or it doesn't pertain to you right?