What will become of "fake Christians?"
- Thread starter JFSurvivor
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Did ANYONE look at the verses I put up????? Fake Christian: Someone who says they are a Christian but really isn't. They are mentioned in the Bible if I am not mistaken.
Are you asking why it's worth debating with people who disagree with you? 0_o
I know that Christians rarely visit atheist forums, and that puzzles me. Remember the bible story where Jesus sat with "the publicans and sinners", and his disciples asked why he did it? He said he came for them, not for the disciples. If your main aim in life is evangelizing, why not actually do it? It's so easy to find people to evangelize to. And yet, you've made it abundantly clear that you don't feel you can change the minds of unbelievers like myself.
Nor do I personally expect to change minds -- most people live by the rule that "don't fix it if it isn't broken" -- so most people will stick with Christianity even if it comes off as kind of lame. And it often does. I "will not get squashed by others here". It would be nice if I saw real challenges more often, but I don't. You know how often I see replies that simply quote the bible with no elaboration? It's like they don't even realize that I see the bible differently, that it doesn't have nearly the same effect.
Nonetheless, if you don't feel like sitting with this "sinner", feel free to go back to saving the saved.
S
Sirk
Guest
wow....did you pack luggage with this guilt trip? Funny how even the brightest people can be so ignorant of themselves. You're a very natural man and I'm sure the image you see in the mirror is a very distorted one from what is truly looking back at you.
Yes, "even the brightest people can be so ignorant of themselves". People generally carry a self-serving bias that protects their ego. I try to put bias aside as much as possible, though I am only human. Did you have something of value to bring other than a backhanded compliment?
V
Viligant_Warrior
Guest
Hi, JFS.
Sorry, we didn't intend to run roughshod over your thread. Well, maybe some did, but not all of us.Fake Christians. Great question. The parable of the wheat and the tares is the best answer, I think.
Matthew 13, NASB
24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27 "The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
30 'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "
24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27 "The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
30 'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "
Tares are darnel wheat. Though it is a weed, it looks exactly like wheat while it grows, but the heads grow black at maturity, unlike the golden color of mature wheat. The harvesters -- the angels of God -- will know the tares, the fake Christians, for what they are, and will deal with them at the time of the Judgment.
The wheat and the tares grow together but in the harvest they are separated and the tares burned. Those who profess what they do not possess will perish. The goats and the sheep may graze in the same field but they are separated and the sheep are gathered unto the Lord the Good Shepherd.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
S
Sirk
Guest
it wasn't a compliment. It was more of a James description of someone who is unspiritual and therefore incapable of seeing the truth about themselves,....much less remembering it for more than a moment if they did. Not surprising that you don't understand the bible seein how it is spiritually discerned. This is why I referred to you as a natural man. If you wanna read up on the natural man it is in 1st Corinthians 2:14
A
andypro
Guest
Hey, I'm certainly up for it. Unfortunately, you will not find me 'extremely easy to argue with'. So let's go, but first I need to define some things that you said:
I'm personally an atheist
By that, do you categorically believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit do not exist (even allowing that you may believe that someone named Jesus did exist, but not in the way we thought).
I spent the first 20 years of my life in a Christian family as a Christian
When you say you were a Christian, do you mean that you were a genuine Christian in the way that the Bible and Jesus define Christian; or that you were a Christian in the way that you just made up in your mind something and you called yourself a 'Christian'?
So, let me know who you are.
Did you read my note?
You seem reasonable and intelligent?
So at what point can I change your mind about the Bible?
You already know the Word, it seems?
You have made a decision.
How am I suppose to convince you otherwise?
From there--that is the Lord's work.
The Lord you do not trust or like.
We are sort of stuck then, but I can not convince you of this.
I can see why people think that Christians are suppose to "save". But we don't. You guys see those who are judgmental, and preachy and assume that this is our faith and job?
Sorry, this is what is wrong with Christianity.
These types of Christians help your argument.
So......How do you propose we go about it?
You say something.
I say something back.
You say you don't trust the Bible.
I say "because the Bible told me so"
Then it goes into a circular, never ending argument.
How can either side enjoy this, or find it productive?
We are to share the Gospel with those who are open to receive it, not those who keep denying the free gift.
Sorry man.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Do you actually believe this verse?
If you don't know how to win me over, why are you asking me? Why not ask God? Is it because God doesn't actually answer with anything helpful? That's my hypothesis.
I don't simply claim that "I don't trust the bible". I try to demonstrate why, such as showing obvious contradictions or scientific absurdities, rather than just stating my opinion. Do you just assert that the bible is true? If that's the case, then you're quite right about how ineffective such an argument will be.
I offer the gift of knowledge. And what do you know? It's free! But you're probably going to "deny" this one, huh?
This "Christianity is just like the other religions", statement just proves how little you know about them, and after boasting you were one for 20 years, that's pretty sad. I can tell you in 1 sentence how they are different. Every other religion is about YOU getting yourself good enough for God to accept. Christianity says that it’s not possible for YOU to do anything at all to reconcile yourself with God. All other religions are full of men trying their hardest to be righteous in Gods eyes, Christians have the Truth that they are NOT righteous, and Jesus is the only way that is possible. It is also the one religion in the world that anyone will mock and make fun of with no worry about offending anyone. This whole world does everything it can to attack Jesus, but there’s no problem tolerating anyone else’s beliefs. Kind of like why you are not on a Muslim site right now instead of here.
Look I was one of these “fake Christians”, for years before the REAL God saved me through the sacrifice of His son Jesus Christ. I wasn’t one of those hypocrite Christians that was in these kinds of sites telling everyone how to live while I was out doing everything I could wrong, but more like one that really liked the “idea” of Jesus, but really looked at it like a belief system of rules, that if followed would result in a decent life. Like I said 100 times before, I liked the idea of Jesus, but had bills to pay. In other words I liked what He taught, but still lived in the “real world”.
Starcrash I would like to get your take on something if you have the time or interest at all. I would like to get your take on what happened to me that convinced me without a doubt that God is real and Jesus is His son. I would just like to hear your opinion on what you think happened to me. I wasn’t raised in a Christian home, I was never “initiated” into any cults or anything crazy like that, and I even went 5-6 years calling myself a Christian before I ever knew Him. It is not the typical conversion story (not that there is such thing), but to me a strait up biblical conversion. The only thing I can compare it to is waking up from the Matrix. Here it is My testimony to Gods glory in my life. It's long but worth a read. , and as the title suggest it is kind of long just as a heads up. This isn’t my attempt to “change you” or anything presumptuous like that I would really just like to get an opinion from a nonbeliever just to see what they think happen to me. If you read it or not, thanks either way.
I believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thus was saved. Then I stopped believing. Christians rarely accept this, because they 1) would become afraid that it might happen to them, and 2) the bible says it can't happen. But obviously it can, at least obviously to me. You can try to argue that I wasn't a "true" Christian, but it's not likely that you're going to convince me that you know my former heart better than I do. You'll just have to accept it.
I don't believe that God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit exist any more than you believe that the roman pantheon exists. Jesus may have been a historical figure, but certainly not in the way that the gospels describe him. Christians often like to claim that I must secretly believe in God, and I must just want to rebel. But those same Christians don't secretly believe in Allah or choose Christianity simply because they don't want to follow the Qur'an. It's such an absurd argument. I genuinely don't think that your god is real.
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Sirk
Guest
you offer the gift of "knowledge"? One of the most glaringly obvious examples of how the bible IS true, is how modern scientific knowledge of the brain and how it functions only serve to prop up the bible and its recipe for being healthy in spirit, body and soul. I coukd go into greater detail but I'm on my phone. Perhaps if you are as opened minded as you claim to be, you could provide us with some examples of what the bible says to be true about the human experience as far as new discoveries concerning principles in scripture that today's science says are "good for us". But I digress, your purpose is to find contradiction vs any congruency and therefore you will find what you are looking for.
K
Kaycie
Guest
If you don't eat, ever, you die. If you don't ever feed off the Word of God, you die spiritually. Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. It does not matter if you are born again, a babe in Christ will die if it does not eat. Fake Christians will not enter heaven. Jesus says only those who DO the will of the Father, how can you do what He says if you don't read what He says to do?
Your personal testimony is just that -- personal. Believers in every faith have conversion stories, and they all claim how life-changing their new religion is, and how they're finally awakened to the truth, etc. I've posted in the past on Muslim sites, and I've heard it myself. Have you? It doesn't sound like it. Don't just take my word for it -- go visit some nonbelievers.
"Salvation through grace" is an arbitrary difference from other religions. It certainly has nothing to do with being more true, which is what I value most. When I claim that Christianity is like other religions, I mean that they present the same forms of evidence. If you peruse the popular arguments for God, you'll see that none of them are specific to Christianity. Debates with Muslims bring out the exact same arguments, put forward the exact same ways. "Your God is a fine-tuning, designing, greatest possible being who created a moral standard? What a coincidence! So is mine!"
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Viligant_Warrior
Guest
Impossible.
We know it cannot, as true believers.
Absolutely.
There's nothing to accept. The passage you linked -- John 10:28 -- proves you wrong. A Christian would have believed that truth, known it to be God's promise to him. You never accepted it, and never were a true believer.
Bad example.
The building exists. Oh, I know you were saying the legion of Rome's gods, but my point is, as real as this stone building is is how real the God of the Bible is, and no one, once believing that to the point of saving faith, will walk away from that kind of conviction, thus disproving your claim to having been saved.
And I, as others have said, "thinketh thee protesteth too mucheth." If you aren't seeking, you aren't here. Yet you are. Therein lies a question you must answer for yourself.
This presupposes that there is a "spirit" that can die. I don't believe in one, thus I'm not worried about its death. It must be terrible to worry about that. I'm sure you don't now, but only after someone scared you with its possibility. What a cruel thing to do to someone you care about.
That's the "Parthenon". I said "pantheon", the word for a collection of Gods (pan- meaning all, -theos meaning god).
That stone building is observable. Your God isn't. He must be assumed, on faith, to be responsible for the things that you credit him with. And if your god existed, he'd surely know about our senses and how we observe things. If he's invisible to them on purpose, he must not want to be known. But I'm going with the much more probable chance that he just isn't there to be observed.
E
elf3
Guest
Finding what you call a "fake Christian" within the church is not always easy. We can have great knowledge of God without actually knowing God. Knowing God is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This, like I mentioned, is not always easy for us to see within someone. The separating the "wheat from the tares" is the work of God Himself. So what happens in the end to those who are "fake"?
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
We are to spread the Gospel and plant the seed but it is the Holy Spirit who "wins" someone to Christ.
And yes I read the passages you posted.