What would be the point of Jesus dying to the law for our sakes then trying to enforce Levitical law then making us return to it? I'm a Gentile so the Gospels and epistles were written for me as well as others like me. We had no law till Jesus!
What would be the point?
- Thread starter Cabrillo
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Agreed. What you call "the Levitical law" is in fact the Law of Moses under the Old Covenant. But on the day Christ died the New Covenant went into effect. That does not mean that Christians are lawless. What is means is that we are under the Law of Christ (also called the Law of Love, or the Law of Liberty, or the Royal Law). This law is obeyed by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit and is expressed as perfect love toward God and man. It includes obedience of Christ.
Yep we were already aliens from God and condemned without the law before he came. Israels received the law to make all People guilty even abrams seed
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
he definately isn’t putting us back there
I’m with you the gospels are Gods eternal Law which came first to the Jew , and then the Jews who believed carried the gospel to all the world to fulfill abrahams promise to all nations in them who believe
I know what you are trying to say, but...
Just because you drive the 55 mph on the highway, and will never get a speeding ticket does not mean there is no traffic codes.
Matthew 5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
1 John 5
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Know the codes and obey the law. That is the best thing.
Its pretty dumb to go 55 mph on the highway because that is your interpretation of the Law when you are piloting a plane.
You won't get a speeding ticket because the Law doesn't apply to you. If you've been to Christ and received your "plane". For all those who haven't been to Christ, the 55 mph speed limit still applies.
Teaching people to work at Laws that Christ has delivered them from shows an EXTREME lack of faith in Christ. Doesn't it??
(Romans 8:2)
Not exactly. No one was ever alien from God. Even Gentiles had a law.
"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )" - Romans 2:13-15 KJV
I agree. But we should never forget the OT moral law still has a place.
1Cor 10:
6Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did. 7Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.” 8We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. 9We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, 10nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.
yeah it seems like it though
“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”
Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV
the gospel is where gentile and Jew are both brought into one kingdom the kingdom Jesus preached when he abolished the separatist law of ot Israel
“but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
For through him we both ( jew and gentile )have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;”
Ephesians 2:13-19 KJV
the world began as one but because of mans rebellion the nations were divided and israel Was chosen … when they had been made as guilty as the others Christ came to reconcile all
People to Himself and bring us back together as one people in Christ through the gospel now there’s no difference anyone who accepts Christ and the gospel has become part of Gods eternal kingdom and citizens of his house
just my own thought though
Can a plane ever be on a highway?
https://nypost.com/2021/08/26/san-diego-plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-california-highway/
I am pretty sure the FAA has some laws concerning flyer's conduct/inspections/maintenance so if not the police then the airforce or whatever civilian authority would step in. Try flying over the white house or a busy airport and see if a F-16 is on your tail.
So when the FAA grounds your plane what is the anological equivalent to the Law of God? Salvation maybe?
Jesus is the police officer with discretionary powers to grant you clemency, not a constitutional amendment. Clemency from a prison sentence of murder sentence does not abolish the law concerning murder. The law is still in effect Matt 5:18. Don't violate Matt 5:19. Plainly written for you to conform.
Not all mushrooms are yummy. Knowing what is good does not mean you know what is bad. Ignorance of the law is just ignorance, not holiness.
Can someone understand or describe the Body of Christ without the Law?
Consider Col 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Consider 1 Timothy 1
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Consider Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Consider Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Besides your selfproclamation that you are holy, how else can one discern your intent? Can we read your mind? Shall we live together? (Just hypothetical...). We are totally different from the God or Jesus who knows your heart. Obedience to God's decree is a tell tale sign of our affiliations.
Consider John 15
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Only by the transformative works can one train your faith. Only practice can one be graceful. Compare your first golf game to that of a professional. Big difference that practice can achieved. Only by Grace in the Eyes of God, will you achieve Salvation. Faith gets you through the Door, but the antechamber is long.
Consider James 2
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
not committing murder isn’t the standard for us , not committing adultery isn’t our standard it’s higher now in Christ
it’s not hating one another , not beating grudges , having nothing against each other because of we don’t we will never even think of killing
it’s not allowing ourselves to look with list , not imagining and plotting affairs or sleeping with another’s spouse that way we will never even consider committing adultery. We keep the righteousness of the law in this way by letting Christ remove the motivations through his word that cause us to sin and keep us bound to the operation of the flesh
when we learn to love Gods way we won’t commit adultery or kill lie and cheat each other
“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”
Romans 13:9-10
of we learn to love Gods way we won’t be harming each other and the law Will become irrelevant being upheld by being who we are in Christ.
Of we believe the gospel and accept his law we won’t need to be told “ Thou shalt not it will become who we are to act in the things we’re suppose to and. Not operate by bekng told what not to do
Of we just believe in , learn from and follow Christ well learn to love God and one another his way we. I longer need to law of what not to do that’s for unrepentant sinners as someone shared in this thread
it’s not hating one another , not beating grudges , having nothing against each other because of we don’t we will never even think of killing
it’s not allowing ourselves to look with list , not imagining and plotting affairs or sleeping with another’s spouse that way we will never even consider committing adultery. We keep the righteousness of the law in this way by letting Christ remove the motivations through his word that cause us to sin and keep us bound to the operation of the flesh
when we learn to love Gods way we won’t commit adultery or kill lie and cheat each other
“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”
Romans 13:9-10
of we learn to love Gods way we won’t be harming each other and the law Will become irrelevant being upheld by being who we are in Christ.
Of we believe the gospel and accept his law we won’t need to be told “ Thou shalt not it will become who we are to act in the things we’re suppose to and. Not operate by bekng told what not to do
Of we just believe in , learn from and follow Christ well learn to love God and one another his way we. I longer need to law of what not to do that’s for unrepentant sinners as someone shared in this thread
NO NO NO Jesus said that He came not to abolish the Law but fulfill the law. Jesus did not do away with "The Law" the law of Mosas the 10 commandments. He did do away with the sacrificial law, the religious laws like the washing of hands ect.
The point, that you missed, is that you are placing people under a law that they aren't under.Can a plane ever be on a highway?
https://nypost.com/2021/08/26/san-diego-plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-california-highway/
I am pretty sure the FAA has some laws concerning flyer's conduct/inspections/maintenance so if not the police then the airforce or whatever civilian authority would step in. Try flying over the white house or a busy airport and see if a F-16 is on your tail.
So when the FAA grounds your plane what is the anological equivalent to the Law of God? Salvation maybe?
Jesus is the police officer with discretionary powers to grant you clemency, not a constitutional amendment. Clemency from a prison sentence of murder sentence does not abolish the law concerning murder. The law is still in effect Matt 5:18. Don't violate Matt 5:19. Plainly written for you to conform.
Not all mushrooms are yummy. Knowing what is good does not mean you know what is bad. Ignorance of the law is just ignorance, not holiness.
Can someone understand or describe the Body of Christ without the Law?
Consider Col 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Consider 1 Timothy 1
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Consider Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Consider Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Besides your selfproclamation that you are holy, how else can one discern your intent? Can we read your mind? Shall we live together? (Just hypothetical...). We are totally different from the God or Jesus who knows your heart. Obedience to God's decree is a tell tale sign of our affiliations.
Consider John 15
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Only by the transformative works can one train your faith. Only practice can one be graceful. Compare your first golf game to that of a professional. Big difference that practice can achieved. Only by Grace in the Eyes of God, will you achieve Salvation. Faith gets you through the Door, but the antechamber is long.
Consider James 2
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
No. A plane is not supposed to be on the highway. But if you applied that speed limit to it as it was over the highway it would be forced to be on that highway, following, or TRYING to follow the law.
Same with Moses Law.
1 Timothy 1:9, Galatians 3:3, Galatians 3:10, Galatians 3:24-25, Galatians 2:19-21
The Lord didn't do away with any "sacrificial" laws or "religious" laws. He fulfilled them and is currently fulfilling them. As with ALL other laws, including the law of Moses, the 10 commandments.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that PART of the Law has been fulfilled or you are not under PART of the Law. That is a construct built by people who have no faith and have not been to Christ. Trying to place everyone under the same curse they are under.
Galatians 3:10
I think you misunderstand the implication of what you are saying.
"No. A plane is not supposed to be on the highway..."
I mostly agree with what you say. But you are implying that the highway code does not exist. Conform all the verses then your understanding will be complete.
Here is a spiel on Objective Morality - Why is murder wrong?
A bible believer would say "because God said so"
An atheist would say "because..." with a lot arm waving. Basically he/she would try to virtue signal his/her system of relative morality.
Here is the subtlety - how is the atheist system different from your moral system? If your interpretation of Gospel of Jesus differs from another?
God decrees the morality, Jesus shows us how to obey it. It is a good thing to obey Jesus. But know where the Wisdom comes from.
1 Timothy 1:9 - I ain't no dirty killer. Are you are teaching the Law is a dirty judaizing thing?
A little up - what are you teaching - see spiel on Objective Morality
1 Tim 1
7Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
Galatians 3:3 - Are you saying OSAS or some new age Shirley MacLaine "I am god" schtick?
A little down
Galatians 3
12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:10 - Are you saying Jesus made new law? I don't think so. Jesus does what Father says to do.
A little down - subject is Promise to Abraham,
Galatians 3
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(nor can you self proclamation)
Galatians 3:24-25 - You are graduated from the school of the dirty judaizing law, so there is no need for the Law?
A little up - I should map this understanding about the Law. It is in Romans also
Galatians 3
21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Galatians 2:19-21 - Apostolic succession is not magisterial. Can't change the laws no matter how you self proclaim your own brand of righteousness.
A little up - Does Paul who obeys Jesus who Obeys God - transgress? What did Paul destroy?
Galatians 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
You should address this to me if you wish to properly discuss. How was it in my notifications without the header? interesting.
See post #15
Once I had a chance to ride through a 75 mph highway way back. Luckily I was blessed with a very affectionate motorcycle. Only went above 65 mph when I kissed the tank.55 mph is almost too slow in some places.The 55 mph federal limit was repealed in most states long ago
I think that I rode 75 most of the way (except where they were working on I10 from Las Vegas NV. to Lawton OK. and I was just cruising. I had a 750 Yamaha Seca. AZ. NM. & OK. turnpikes are 75 daytime.Once I had a chance to ride through a 75 mph highway way back. Luckily I was blessed with a very affectionate motorcycle. Only went above 65 mph when I kissed the tank.