When did the Law expire?

[Stunnedbygrace]

Unless I am misunderstanding you, what you describe is common to all. We all sin in thought, not only in deed. If you think that will ever totally go away, I think you will forever be disappointed. Because the flesh is still with us. For myself, it drives me to my knees in recognition of my continuing need for Jesus as my only hope. Cause without Him, I am a dead duck.

I see it differently. I don't just automatically assume I will always sin. I don't begin my race to trust Him more and more with the thought that the deck is stacked and I will always sin.

I have a sure promise that states otherwise. If I abide in Him, I don't sin. To me, this is saying if I trust Him completely, I don't sin. So my mind gets excited and stirred up to trust Him so completely that I don't sin.

I hear that if I trust Him, I don't sin.
Others seem to hear, if I trust Him, I WILL still sin.

So if the race we are in is a race of faith/abiding/trusting Him completely, I am going to run it to win. And if the way to win is to keep trusting Him more and more, then that's what I'm going to try to do.

I have seen that He wins great victories for me if I trust Him. I have also seen that if I lean to my own hard striving, I continually sin. So I have seen that it is the truth He told, that if I abide in Him, I don't sin. But the moment I begin to try to have victory by any other means than trusting Him, THAT is when I sin.

So where you say you think I will be disappointed if I think I can stop sinning if I trust Him, I will just have to be shown by Him that I am wrong to trust Him that: if I trust Him, I don't sin.

I know there will always be temptations. But I think He means for me to become more and more like Jesus, who didn't fall to those temptations. He gives me a way out of every temptation. And since I have begun to see that this is true, I just race and race to trust Him even more.

He will have to be the one to show me that I am thinking wrongly to think that He means to give me victory over my pride/flesh, the devils ploys, and the constant arguments of the world. He will have to be the one to show me that He won't always give me a way out of the temptations. And until He does, I will continue to believe that if I abide/trust in Him, I won't sin and that He will always give me a way out of every temptation I face. These are His promises and I believe Him that He has told me the truth. So I'm going to stubbornly stick to what He has said and promised and I'm going to race to trust Him more and more so that I don't stumble.

If He shows me that it isn't true that if I trust Him completely, I don't sin, then I will listen to you.
And if He shows me that it isn't true that He will always give me a way out of temptation, then I will listen to you.
Until then, I'm going to keep believing Him. I have not murdered anyone for some time now, so I trust Him because when I began to do what He said, I stopped murdering.
There have been temptations to murder again, but He has given me the way out, just like He said He would.
I'm not going to assume defeat or stumbling. If I do stumble because I leave off abiding in Him only, then I will stumble. But I'm not going to assume right off the bat that He can't do what He's said He will just because someone else says other than what He has promised.

I've talked myself out. Coffee break.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I see it differently. I don't just automatically assume I will always sin. I don't begin my race to trust Him more and more with the thought that the deck is stacked and I will always sin.

I have a sure promise that states otherwise. If I abide in Him, I don't sin. To me, this is saying if I trust Him completely, I don't sin. So my mind gets excited and stirred up to trust Him so completely that I don't sin.

I hear that if I trust Him, I don't sin.
Others seem to hear, if I trust Him, I WILL still sin.

So if the race we are in is a race of faith/abiding/trusting Him completely, I am going to run it to win. And if the way to win is to keep trusting Him more and more, then that's what I'm going to try to do.

I have seen that He wins great victories for me if I trust Him. I have also seen that if I lean to my own hard striving, I continually sin. So I have seen that it is the truth He told, that if I abide in Him, I don't sin. But the moment I begin to try to have victory by any other means than trusting Him, THAT is when I sin.

So where you say you think I will be disappointed if I think I can stop sinning if I trust Him, I will just have to be shown by Him that I am wrong to trust Him that: if I trust Him, I don't sin.

I know there will always be temptations. But I think He means for me to become more and more like Jesus, who didn't fall to those temptations. He gives me a way out of every temptation. And since I have begun to see that this is true, I just race and race to trust Him even more.

He will have to be the one to show me that I am thinking wrongly to think that He means to give me victory over my pride/flesh, the devils ploys, and the constant arguments of the world. He will have to be the one to show me that He won't always give me a way out of the temptations. And until He does, I will continue to believe that if I abide/trust in Him, I won't sin and that He will always give me a way out of every temptation I face. These are His promises and I believe Him that He has told me the truth. So I'm going to stubbornly stick to what He has said and promised and I'm going to race to trust Him more and more so that I don't stumble.

If He shows me that it isn't true that if I trust Him completely, I don't sin, then I will listen to you.
And if He shows me that it isn't true that He will always give me a way out of temptation, then I will listen to you.
Until then, I'm going to keep believing Him. I have not murdered anyone for some time now, so I trust Him because when I began to do what He said, I stopped murdering.
There have been temptations to murder again, but He has given me the way out, just like He said He would.
I'm not going to assume defeat or stumbling. If I do stumble because I leave off abiding in Him only, then I will stumble. But I'm not going to assume right off the bat that He can't do what He's said He will just because someone else says other than what He has promised.

I've talked myself out. Coffee break.

I don't assume it either, and yet there it is. Go figure.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Im just trying to understand your view point

So you are saying the "imperishable crown" is reward?

What reward exactly?

Are any of Gods rewards Perishable?

I mean come on now. A reward is a reward. A gift is a gift.

A reward must be e4anred, and can be lost. A gift is freely given, and is yours forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Question for FreeNChrist and eternally-gratefull

anyone else can answer too.

Is it possible to be blotted out of the Book of Life?

Psalm 69:27-28, "Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!"

Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."

Exodus 32:31-33, "And Mosheh returned to יהוה and said, “Oh, these people have sinned a great sin, and have made for themselves a mighty one of gold! And now, if You would forgive their sin, but if not, please blot me out of Your book which You have written. And יהוה said to Mosheh, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I blot him out of My book."

That does not mean salvation can be lost. Jesus died for everyone, which means everyone is written in the book of life. It is those who are blotted out that will not be saved. Why are you trying so hard to "earn" grace? .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hmmm...well, I think I have to maybe just give up then, because I've answered the question so many times in different threads and each time in different words and I'm all worded out on it. If you can't glean from hearing my story so many times whether I am stuck in trying to be good by my own effort or not, I literally can't think of another way to explain how He has led me or my experience or what He's taught me. I'm not mad, I'm not even frustrated. A little perplexed maybe.

It is a simple question.

Are we righteous by following the law

Or by the working of faith (love)

when you write a whole story,. When at one point is seems like y0our answer is to live in faith, then in another section, it appears like you mean to live by law. It gets confusing.

I am not trying to be mean sis, Just showing what I see. Forgive me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see it differently. I don't just automatically assume I will always sin. I don't begin my race to trust Him more and more with the thought that the deck is stacked and I will always sin.

I have a sure promise that states otherwise. If I abide in Him, I don't sin. To me, this is saying if I trust Him completely, I don't sin. So my mind gets excited and stirred up to trust Him so completely that I don't sin.

I hear that if I trust Him, I don't sin.
Others seem to hear, if I trust Him, I WILL still sin.

So if the race we are in is a race of faith/abiding/trusting Him completely, I am going to run it to win. And if the way to win is to keep trusting Him more and more, then that's what I'm going to try to do.

I have seen that He wins great victories for me if I trust Him. I have also seen that if I lean to my own hard striving, I continually sin. So I have seen that it is the truth He told, that if I abide in Him, I don't sin. But the moment I begin to try to have victory by any other means than trusting Him, THAT is when I sin.

So where you say you think I will be disappointed if I think I can stop sinning if I trust Him, I will just have to be shown by Him that I am wrong to trust Him that: if I trust Him, I don't sin.

I know there will always be temptations. But I think He means for me to become more and more like Jesus, who didn't fall to those temptations. He gives me a way out of every temptation. And since I have begun to see that this is true, I just race and race to trust Him even more.

He will have to be the one to show me that I am thinking wrongly to think that He means to give me victory over my pride/flesh, the devils ploys, and the constant arguments of the world. He will have to be the one to show me that He won't always give me a way out of the temptations. And until He does, I will continue to believe that if I abide/trust in Him, I won't sin and that He will always give me a way out of every temptation I face. These are His promises and I believe Him that He has told me the truth. So I'm going to stubbornly stick to what He has said and promised and I'm going to race to trust Him more and more so that I don't stumble.

If He shows me that it isn't true that if I trust Him completely, I don't sin, then I will listen to you.
And if He shows me that it isn't true that He will always give me a way out of temptation, then I will listen to you.
Until then, I'm going to keep believing Him. I have not murdered anyone for some time now, so I trust Him because when I began to do what He said, I stopped murdering.
There have been temptations to murder again, but He has given me the way out, just like He said He would.
I'm not going to assume defeat or stumbling. If I do stumble because I leave off abiding in Him only, then I will stumble. But I'm not going to assume right off the bat that He can't do what He's said He will just because someone else says other than what He has promised.

I've talked myself out. Coffee break.

It is one thing to assume you will always sin. (You know what you do when you assume right?? )

it is another to be humble. And not think you are perfect. And at the end of the day, think every waking moment was spent serving God and others.. That would be most likely misleading, and could lead to pride.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It is one thing to assume you will always sin. (You know what you do when you assume right?? )

it is another to be humble. And not think you are perfect. And at the end of the day, think every waking moment was spent serving God and others.. That would be most likely misleading, and could lead to pride.

To me, it would be a great lack of humility to argue that God will not do what He has promised.
I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of what you say here. I thought at first that you meant that to believe that if I trust Him I don't sin - that to believe that, is not being humble. Then I recalled the other verse I talked about, that with every temptation He gives us a way out of it, and thought maybe you meant that to believe that was dangerous or prideful.
So I decided to stop wondering what you were meaning to convey and to just let you expound if you cared to.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To me, it would be a great lack of humility to argue that God will not do what He has promised.
I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of what you say here. I thought at first that you meant that to believe that if I trust Him I don't sin - that to believe that, is not being humble. Then I recalled the other verse I talked about, that with every temptation He gives us a way out of it, and thought maybe you meant that to believe that was dangerous or prideful.
So I decided to stop wondering what you were meaning to convey and to just let you expound if you cared to.

it comes to this, Are you sinless? If your answer is no. Then why?

Agasin, It is one thing to trust God. It's is another to think you can go 24 hours without thinking of self once, without putting yourself above others once.

Thats why the law is dangerous. it is easy to not commit adultry, Lie Murder Steel. Etc etc.. I can do that for months.

But to "love the lord my God with all I have, and my neighbor (including the jerks in my life) as God loved me, That is a far other thing.

The more mature I get, the more sinful I realize I have been.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So "the prize" is the ministry, not eternal life? So he is "competing" to be in the ministry not for eternal life? Why does he then "But I discipline my body and keep it under control," and say: "They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable"


1 Corinthians 9
24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable. 26So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."


By "imperishable" he is not talking about eternal life?..............?.....?.?.????

Nope....Paul is talking about an imperishable crown that stems from what the Lord has done through him in his ministry to others.

The "competing" aspect is just Paul giving an allegory to one who participates in sports - he competes to win. The same for Paul in his ministry to others.

Salvation which is all based on righteousness is from the Lord Jesus Christ and it is all by grace through faith. - not through a works-based religion.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.


Salvation is the "gift" of God - not of works.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I encourage you to really hear the gospel of the grace of God that is in Christ - it will change your life forever if you believe and receive it. NO more striving in works - Christ has qualified you. Col. 1:12 ( we do good works but it will be from His live in us manifesting to others and bringing glory to God )

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Grace777x70 again.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So "the prize" is the ministry, not eternal life? So he is "competing" to be in the ministry not for eternal life? Why does he then "But I discipline my body and keep it under control," and say: "They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable"


1 Corinthians 9
24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable. 26So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."


By "imperishable" he is not talking about eternal life?..............?.....?.?.????

If a preacher Is telling me one thing but doing something different than what he told me,then To me,he's disqualified,meaning,I think he's just saying words,although the words are true,they are not taken sincerely for him.

 

[royalscot]

it comes to this, Are you sinless? If your answer is no. Then why?

Agasin, It is one thing to trust God. It's is another to think you can go 24 hours without thinking of self once, without putting yourself above others once.

Thats why the law is dangerous. it is easy to not commit adultry, Lie Murder Steel. Etc etc.. I can do that for months.

But to "love the lord my God with all I have, and my neighbor (including the jerks in my life) as God loved me, That is a far other thing.

The more mature I get, the more sinful I realize I have been.

the old and wiser ,you think you have become ,would account for making better distinctions, between what you would class to be a good act, against a bad act. (sin). what about a good thought v a bad thought. is thinking a sin. etc

yet you can, not see what paul was saying in (gal 5 )

so you talk, about sin, as if you have a full understanding, so why would god introduced grace a gift, for you to fall back to what you class as a sin. (humans. ) etc. given you grow in human logic, yet try to think in spiritual logic . etc

the pharisee, would be using word like jerk or words like this when they talked about jesus christ. among them other pharisee s. etc

 

[TMS]

The law is what condemns us.
The Law is Holy and Good.
The law is like a light that points out the hidden things of darkness.
We are a sinner because the Law condemns us, points out our sin.

SO we need the grace that Jesus gives. The Gift of that saves us from the law.
By Faith we are saved through grace not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.
The Law has not expired because the same law that made Adam a sinner makes us a sinner.
But we are free from the condemnation of the law by the blood of Jesus.

If we live in the spirit, if the spirit controls us we obey the law. If we are controlled by the flesh we disobey the law and sin.

There must be a law because without a law we have no need for grace to save us from transgression.
The question is which Law?

 

[eph610]

The law is what condemns us.
The Law is Holy and Good.
The law is like a light that points out the hidden things of darkness.
We are a sinner because the Law condemns us, points out our sin.

SO we need the grace that Jesus gives. The Gift of that saves us from the law.
By Faith we are saved through grace not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.
The Law has not expired because the same law that made Adam a sinner makes us a sinner.
But we are free from the condemnation of the law by the blood of Jesus.

If we live in the spirit, if the spirit controls us we obey the law. If we are controlled by the flesh we disobey the law and sin.

There must be a law because without a law we have no need for grace to save us from transgression.
The question is which Law?

The Holy Ghost does all that now, not the law...head slap....

 

[royalscot]

why did you parents send you to school. so you miss context to, what he teaches you.

 

[TheSearcherMan]

TMS, right on!

 

[royalscot]

you done ,all this ,without being able to read, or write, or listen to an other sermon, preached to you. then you would not need the bible, would you. etc how would you know the law is expired. etc

who is the holy spirit teaching, if he teaching, how fast should you understand. give you post dose not account for different iqs or high logic. in different humans etc

for example

your mixing, human logic ie school and uni etc with a spiritual logic. (to keep it simple).

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

it comes to this, Are you sinless? If your answer is no. Then why?

Agasin, It is one thing to trust God. It's is another to think you can go 24 hours without thinking of self once, without putting yourself above others once.

Thats why the law is dangerous. it is easy to not commit adultry, Lie Murder Steel. Etc etc.. I can do that for months.

But to "love the lord my God with all I have, and my neighbor (including the jerks in my life) as God loved me, That is a far other thing.

The more mature I get, the more sinful I realize I have been.

No I am not sinless...I have not murdered anyone in a while, but I can't say I am committing no sin but I can say my conscience is clear in that I am not aware of any sin I am committing. I am aware of temptations often, but He gives me a way out of them. I used to think a temptation was sinning. Satan had me that messed up. But I'm onto him now and can not be had so gullibly any more as to think that if I am tempted - either by his mutterings, or my flesh, or a temptation to worry because everyone and the world tells me what a fool I am to trust God so radically as I've begun to - that it is sin. Jesus was tempted and didn't sin, so temptation is not sin.

IF I do sin, it would be because I left off abiding in Christ. If I abide in Him, I don't sin.

My conscience has been clear for longer periods than 24 hours. I have trusted Him for everything and rested in Him for longer than 24 hour periods. Was that just a random number you picked? Does it bother you that a man can go for 24 hours with a clear conscience, abiding in Him and walking in the Spirit in love? Would it bother you if a man could go 12 hours walking in the Spirit and therefore not fulfilling the lusts of his flesh? Would it seem impossible that a man could fully abide for 2 hours? I'm confused by your cut off point of 24 hours, I guess.

If I walk in the Spirit and I love my neighbor selflessly by the Spirit, laying down all temptations to let my pride rise up (lay down my life of pride so I truly love him through the Spirit), and the Holy Spirit does not point out to me any sin I am committing at present, and my conscience is clear, do you have any further counsel for me? Are you saying you think it impossible, through walking in the Spirit, to go for any longer than five minutes without sinning? Sin is in me, yes, but do I sin every second?

Maybe I still don't understand what you are trying to say...it seems you don't think it is possible to not sin by abiding and by walking in the Spirit...

 

[royalscot]

you need a law for sin .. (Gentiles) acts 15

Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace

guess paul was correct. there are no bad students, only bad teachers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I am not sinless...I have not murdered anyone in a while, but I can't say I am committing no sin but I can say my conscience is clear in that I am not aware of any sin I am committing. I am aware of temptations often, but He gives me a way out of them. I used to think a temptation was sinning. Satan had me that messed up. But I'm onto him now and can not be had so gullibly any more as to think that if I am tempted - either by his mutterings, or my flesh, or a temptation to worry because everyone and the world tells me what a fool I am to trust God so radically as I've begun to - that it is sin. Jesus was tempted and didn't sin, so temptation is not sin.

IF I do sin, it would be because I left off abiding in Christ. If I abide in Him, I don't sin.

My conscience has been clear for longer periods than 24 hours. I have trusted Him for everything and rested in Him for longer than 24 hour periods. Was that just a random number you picked? Does it bother you that a man can go for 24 hours with a clear conscience, abiding in Him and walking in the Spirit in love? Would it bother you if a man could go 12 hours walking in the Spirit and therefore not fulfilling the lusts of his flesh? Would it seem impossible that a man could fully abide for 2 hours? I'm confused by your cut off point of 24 hours, I guess.

If I walk in the Spirit and I love my neighbor selflessly by the Spirit, laying down all temptations to let my pride rise up (lay down my life of pride so I truly love him through the Spirit), and the Holy Spirit does not point out to me any sin I am committing at present, and my conscience is clear, do you have any further counsel for me? Are you saying you think it impossible, through walking in the Spirit, to go for any longer than five minutes without sinning? Sin is in me, yes, but do I sin every second?

Maybe I still don't understand what you are trying to say...it seems you don't think it is possible to not sin by abiding and by walking in the Spirit...

I think we have a differrent definition of sin.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think we have a differrent definition of sin.

What do you think is sinning?