The astute will see that none of those verses state that WB is required for salvation,
but why should those who are SB be sorry?
When Do Christians Receive The Holy Spirit ?
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The astute will see that none of those verses state that WB is required for salvation,
but why should those who are SB be sorry?
No, regarding the WB example, you are focusing on Peter's DC in Acts and ignoring the NI in his epistles.
"...I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:23
Repentance relates to the soul; mind, will, and emotions. (Luke 13:3)
Water baptism in the name of Jesus relates to the body; sins are remitted. (Acts 2:38, 22:16, 10:43, 47-48; John 3:5)
Receiving the Holy Spirit relates to the renewing of man's spirit that died as a result of Adam and Eve's sin in the garden. (Eph. 2:1, John 3:5)
The NT rebirth is what results upon believing in Jesus, and believing and obeying the requirements first presented in Acts 2. But it doesn't end there, the rebirth as a new creation in Christ Jesus is just the beginning.
As Paul said, he keeps his flesh under subjection so that he doesn't end up being a castaway. The same holds true for every born again Christian...
I agree. And just for the record, I never said he lacked the Holy Ghost until that moment.
Perfect. Jesus received the Holy Ghost more than one time, which I already knew. I wanted to make sure others were aware of this. Now we are getting closer to what I am trying to understand from folks here.
This is an open question to anyone: Do you believe that this is the only time this has happened to a person? Or, is it possible that others have received the Holy Spirit more than one time?
Well, if WB were required for salvation, don't you think it would be commanded in every epistle?
There are THREE ASPECTS of Holy Spirit interaction with humans:
The Holy Spirit ON a person - Common in the Old Testament - Sampson, for example, or Moses, or David, or Isaiah - etc. These men WERE NOT "Spiritually Regenerated" in the New Testament sense (since Jesus had not yet been sacrificed), but WERE ABLE, at God's will, to do miraculous things in the power of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit IN a person - Possible ONLY in the New Testament AFTER the Resurrection of Jesus which was the SIN OFFERING - (Isa 53:10) - that made complete cleansing from SIN available by FAITH in Jesus' sacrifice (Eph 2:8.9).
The Holy SPirit IN, and ON a person which is the "normal state" of a New Testament Christian after what's commonly called "The baptism in the Holy Spirit" - which results, subsequent to being Born Again, in the "Ministry Gifts of the Spirit" partially alliterated in 1 Cor 12:8-11.
Your reluctance to answer with the obvious "yes" indicates unwillingness to amend your unharmonized opinion,
so all I can do is urge you to ponder the question, just as I did the question regarding OSAS years ago, finally
realizing the harmonization that it (and GW supporting it) assumes perseverance. Be a TSer!
The harmonization of GW regarding WB is what the Baptists believe: WB is a work that symbolizes saving faith/SB.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Yes, it’s a work that is commanded!! I urge you to read carefully, and to back away from this false doctrine that has so seemingly ensnared you.
I’m not a “Baptist”, or of any other denomination. I follow Scripture of the 1st century church, before it broke off into a plethora of streams.
Well, it is weird that you accuse evangelical Christians of being ensnared by false doctrine for believing WB symbolizes rather than saves, but I have nothing more to say about your Catholic belief that it is sacramental/essential, so I place my bet and expect to collect in heaven.
Jesus did not receive the Holy Spirit at that time. The image of the dove alighting upon Him was a sign indicating that He was the Son fo God.
The epistles were written to those who had already believed and obeyed the command.
The Book of Acts serves as the historical account of the apostolic church and contains detailed examples of water baptism being administered. The epistles written by apostles do not contradict these recorded practices; rather, they confirm and expand upon them by explaining the doctrinal truths associated with baptism.
Although apostles' epistles do not frequently record direct commands to baptize as found in the historical narratives of Acts, they clearly demonstrate that water baptism was an established and essential part of the gospel preached. The Apostle Paul repeatedly referred to believers as having already been baptized, showing that baptism was a common and expected response to the gospel message.
This connection is especially evident in Paul's letter to the Ephesians. The church at Ephesus included believers who had personally experienced the events recorded in Acts 19:1–7, where Paul instructed disciples who had previously received only John's baptism to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. In Ephesians 1:13, Paul reminded them that after hearing "the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation," they believed and were "sealed with that holy Spirit of promise." While this passage does not explicitly mention water baptism, it is consistent with and reflects the conversion experience recorded in Acts 19:1-7, where the Ephesian believers heard the gospel more fully, were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and received the Holy Ghost.
Likewise, Paul's discussion of baptism in 1 Corinthians 1:13–17 demonstrates that water baptism was being administered among the Corinthian believers as a normal part of apostolic ministry. While Paul emphasized that Christ sent him primarily to preach the gospel, he nevertheless acknowledged baptizing members of the church, confirming that baptism remained an integral component of the gospel response.
When studied together, Acts provides the historical record of apostolic practice, while Paul's epistles confirm and illuminate the doctrinal meaning of what was practiced. The historical accounts in Acts reveal how converts responded to the gospel, and the epistles explain the spiritual significance of those same experiences. Together they present a consistent and harmonious biblical witness concerning water baptism.
Scripture References:
Romans: Connects baptism to the Gospel narrative, teaching that believers are "buried with him through baptism into death" so that they can "walk in newness of life" (Rom. 6:3-4).
1 Corinthians: Refers to the Israelites being "baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea" (1 Cor. 10:2), and explicitly notes that believers are "baptized into one body" (1 Cor. 12:13).
Galatians: States that as many as were "baptized into Christ" have put on meaning "clothed yourselves with Christ" (Gal. 3:27).
Colossians: Teaches that believers are "buried with him in baptism" and "raised with him through faith" (Col. 2:12).
Titus: Describes salvation as coming through the "washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5).
Hebrews: Mentions drawing near to God with "our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and our bodies washed with pure water" (Heb. 10:22).
1 Peter: Makes an explicit connection between the physical elements and spiritual reality, noting that "baptism that now saves you... is not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God" (1 Pet. 3:21).
The New Testament letters build upon this practice by explaining the spiritual implications of being baptized into Christ's name:
Romans 6:3: Paul writes, "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?"
1 Corinthians 1:13: Paul rebukes divisions in the church by asking, "...Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" This rhetorical question strongly implies that they were instead baptized exclusively in the name of Jesus.
Galatians 3:27: Paul emphasizes identity, stating, "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
The Gospels (The Commission)
Matthew 28:19: In the Great Commission, Jesus instructs His disciples to go and make disciples of all nations, "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." That this command relates specifically to the singular "name of Jesus" is based on what Jesus’ apostles’ practiced in the Book of Acts.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
So again, you accuse me of being something else, of which I’m not.
Where have I used the words that WB symbolizes anything??
-"There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him."
I Peter 3:21-22 NKJV
Acts 19 is a transitional event during the apostolic era, not a universal pattern for all believers. Paul asked those men if they had received the Holy Spirit because they had only known John's baptism and had not yet heard the full gospel of Christ (Acts 19:2-5). After they believed in Jesus, they received the Holy Spirit. The normal pattern taught in passages like Ephesians 1:13 and Romans 8:9 is that believers receive the Holy Spirit when they come to faith in Christ, not as a separate experience sometime later.