Which laws are and are not valid?

[JesusIsAll]

Try this example of Paul's on newlife7. It's Bible and has to work well. Just sayin'
1 Corinthians 9:19-22
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Titus 1:12-14 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. QED

 

[newlife7]

Doesn't the New Testament teach us to go and make disciples? Can't you guys see that I'm writing out of love and all I'm getting back from you guys is accusations of being evil because I believe that Romans 3:19 and 1 Timothy 1:9 is true? The bible says to avoid quarrels about the law so I'm going to sigh off on this post, but before you accuse me of making quarrels about the law, let me just say that I am just trying to show Matthew4Jesus what scripture tells us and that is that with a change in priesthood there is a change in law and I do not want him to be confused about this scripture. I was also thinking of others who may read this because Hebrews 13:10 is a very serious matter.

 

[p_rehbein]

Doesn't the New Testament teach us to go and make disciples? Can't you guys see that I'm writing out of love and all I'm getting back from you guys is accusations of being evil because I believe that Romans 3:19 and 1 Timothy 1:9 is true? The bible says to avoid quarrels about the law so I'm going to sigh off on this post, but before you accuse me of making quarrels about the law, let me just say that I am just trying to show Matthew4Jesus what scripture tells us and that is that with a change in priesthood there is a change in law and I do not want him to be confused about this scripture. I was also thinking of others who may read this because Hebrews 13:10 is a very serious matter.

Such is the nature of the beast here on the BDF of CC Brother............there are a few here who will do such, but there are also people here who will discuss issues with Christian love and common courtesy. Longer you are here, you will recognize both. When the ones who attack begin to bother you, put them on your "Ignore List," and the problem will be solved.

I'm saying this without any idea how you stand on the issue being argued. I'm just explaining the nature of the beast here.

 

[newlife7]

One more thing was Paul not obeying 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 when He withstood Peter to his face about not eating with the Gentiles in the book of Galatians? No Paul loved Peter and wanted him to see the truth kind of like I'm doing here.

 

[Grandpa]

One more thing was Paul not obeying 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 when He withstood Peter to his face about not eating with the Gentiles in the book of Galatians? No Paul loved Peter and wanted him to see the truth kind of like I'm doing here.

Why did Paul withstand Peter to his face and not be as a jew to win him, or as one under the law to win him?

Answer: Because Peter called himself a Christian and was a teacher and should have well known better.

 

[Elin]

Try this example of Paul's on newlife7. It's Bible and has to work well. Just sayin'
1 Corinthians 9:19-22
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews
I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law,
as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

Note the "I became as under the law," and not "I was under the law."

[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Are you saying we are to keep the law for the sake of law keepers' salvation?

 

[Elin]

Your assumptions. I knew at the beginning, and that's about all I read for years. NT that is. I just never rejected what I hadn't read at that point.

"I never rejected what I hadn't read at that point". . .what does that mean?

 

[Elin]

Such is the nature of the beast here on the BDF of CC Brother............there are a few here who will do such, but there are also people here who will discuss issues with Christian love and common courtesy. Longer you are here, you will recognize both. When the ones who attack begin to bother you, put them on your "Ignore List," and the problem will be solved.

I'm saying this without any idea how you stand on the issue being argued.
I'm just explaining the nature of the beast here.

As there was with Paul, there will always be contention with those who advocate observing the Mosaic regulations.

 

[just-me]

Note the "I became as under the law," and not "I was under the law."


Are you saying we are to keep the law for the sake of law keepers' salvation?

Try this example of Paul's on newlife7. It's Bible and has to work well. Just sayin'
How did you get that out of what I posted to newlife7?See post 306

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law,
as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;[SUP]
21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

These are strictly Paul's words that you are quoting in post 306. I'm not saying anything. I'm sure you can answer your own question cause all you have is Paul's writings here.

 

[just-me]

"I never rejected what I hadn't read at that point". . .what does that mean?

When I was first a believer in Christ Jesus, I knew His word was all true before I had read it all. It has something to do with faith and trust.

 

[p_rehbein]

My first comment dealt with which Laws are not valid. As I stated for me, I do not believe they have any effect upon my walk with Christ. This next list is a list of Laws that, if nothing else, are surely a good and Godly way to live. Many of them are covered by the Two Greatest, I realize that, but I wonder how many here are aware of them?

They are provided as FYI ONLY. For consideration and as an example of how some of the 613 Laws go beyond the Old Testament/First Covenant days.

To know there is a God — Ex. 20:2

1. To love Him —Deut. 6:5
2. To fear Him — Deut. 10:20
3. To sanctify His Name — Lev. 22:32
4. Not to profane His Name — Lev. 22:32
5. Not to try the LORD unduly — Deut. 6:16
6. To emulate His ways — Deut. 28:9
7. To cleave to those who know Him — Deut. 10:20
8. To love other Jews — Lev. 19:18
9. To love converts
10. Not to embarrass others — Lev. 19:17
11. Not to oppress the weak — Ex. 22:21
12. Not to speak derogatorily of others — Lev. 19:16
13. Not to take revenge — Lev. 19:18
14. Not to bear a grudge — Lev. 19:18
15. Not to inquire into idolatry — Lev. 19:4
16. Not to follow the whims of your heart or what your eyes see — Num. 15:39
17. Not to blaspheme — Ex. 22:27
18. Not to worship idols in the manner they are worshiped — Standard->Ex. 20:6 Yemenite->Ex. 20:5
19. Not to worship idols in the four ways we worship God — Standard->Ex. 20:6 Yemenite->Ex. 20:5
20. Not to make an idol for yourself — Standard->Ex. 20:5 Yemenite->Ex. 20:4
21. Not to make an idol for others — Lev. 19:4
22. Not to listen to a false prophet — Deut. 13:4
23. Not to prophesize falsely in the name of God — Deut. 18:20

Not to perform acts of magic — Deut. 18:10

1. Men must not wear women's clothing — Deut. 22:5
2. Women must not wear men's clothing — Deut. 22:5

To pray every day — Ex. 23:25

 

[p_rehbein]

1. Not to have sexual relations with women not thus married — Deut. 23:18
2. Not to withhold food, clothing, and sexual relations from your wife — Ex. 21:10
3. To have children with one's wife — Gen. 1:28
4. Not to have sexual relations with your mother — Lev. 18:7
5. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife — Lev. 18:8
6. Not to have sexual relations with your sister — Lev. 18:9
7. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife's daughter — Lev. 18:11
8. Not to have sexual relations with your son's daughter — Lev. 18:10
9. Not to have sexual relations with your daughter — Lev. 18:10
10. Not to have sexual relations with your daughter's daughter — Lev. 18:10
11. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter — Lev. 18:17
12. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her son's daughter — Lev. 18:17
13. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter — Lev. 18:17
14. Not to have sexual relations with your father's sister — Lev. 18:12
15. Not to have sexual relations with your mother's sister — Lev. 18:13
16. Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother's wife — Lev. 18:14
17. Not to have sexual relations with your son's wife — Lev. 18:15
18. Not to have sexual relations with your brother's wife — Lev. 18:16
19. Not to have sexual relations with your wife's sister — Lev. 18:18
20. A man must not have sexual relations with an animal — Lev. 18:23
21. A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal — Lev. 18:23
22. A man must not have sexual relations with a man — Lev. 18:22
23. Not to have sexual relations with your father — Lev. 18:7
24. Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother — Lev. 18:14
25. Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife — Lev. 18:20
26. Not to swear falsely in God's Name — Lev. 19:12
27. Not to take God's Name in vain — Standard->Ex. 20:7 Yemenite->Ex. 20:6
28. Not to deny possession of something entrusted to you — Lev. 19:11
29. Not to swear in denial of a monetary claim — Lev. 19:11
30. To swear in God's Name to confirm the truth when deemed necessary by court — Deut. 10:20

 

[p_rehbein]

To give charity — Deut. 15:8

2. Each individual must ensure that his scales and weights are accurate — Lev. 19:36
3. Not to commit injustice with scales and weights — Lev. 19:35
4. Not to possess inaccurate scales and weights even if they are not for use — Deut. 25:13
5. Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property — Deut. 19:14
6. Not to kidnap — Standard->Ex. 20:14 Yemenite->Ex. 20:13
7. Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt — Lev. 19:13
8. Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession — Standard->Ex. 20:15 Yemenite->Ex. 20:14
9. Not to desire another's possession — Standard->Deut. 5:19 Yemenite->Deut. 5:18
10. Not to murder — Standard->Ex. 20:13 Yemenite->Ex. 20:12
11. Not to accept monetary restitution to atone for the murderer — Num. 35:31

Not to kill the murderer before he stands trial — Num. 35:12

2. Not to put a stumbling block before a blind man (nor give harmful advice) — Lev. 19:14
3. Help another remove the load from a beast which can no longer carry it — Ex. 23:5
4. Help others load their beast — Deut. 22:4
5. Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload) — Deut. 22:4
6. Not to insult or harm anybody with words — Lev. 25:17
7. Not to cheat a convert monetarily — Ex. 22:20
8. Not to insult or harm a convert with words — Ex. 22:20

Not to muzzle an ox while plowing — Deut. 25:4
Not to appoint judges who are not familiar with judicial procedure — Deut. 1:17
Judge righteously — Lev. 19:15

 

[p_rehbein]

2. Anybody who knows evidence must testify in court — Lev. 5:1
3. Carefully interrogate the witness — Deut. 13:15
4. A witness must not serve as a judge in capital crimes — Deut. 19:17

Not to curse your father and mother — Ex. 21:17

2. Not to be a rebellious son — Deut. 21:18
3. Mourn for relatives — Lev. 10:19

I hope some here take the time to read through these, and let me know their thoughts concerning them.

 

[Least]

Titus 1:12-14 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. QED

Great verses.

Fables from that passage is defined as:


AV - fable 5; 5

1) a speech, word, saying
2) a narrative, story
2a) a true narrative
2b) a fiction, a fable
2b1) an invention, a falsehood

The part that says, "commandments of men,:" men in that passage is defined as:

AV - man 552, not tr 4, misc 3; 559

1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels
1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
into a mistake or prompted to sin
1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt
and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman

Some of the definitions that go with the word man are also listed in the definition of "carnal."

The passage isn't speaking of the truth that is written. It's speaking of made up things.

1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
into a mistake or prompted to sin

The opposite of faithfulness.

 

[KohenMatt]

1. Anybody who knows evidence must testify in court — Lev. 5:1
2. Carefully interrogate the witness — Deut. 13:15
3. A witness must not serve as a judge in capital crimes — Deut. 19:17

Not to curse your father and mother — Ex. 21:17

1. Not to be a rebellious son — Deut. 21:18
2. Mourn for relatives — Lev. 10:19

I hope some here take the time to read through these, and let me know their thoughts concerning them.

Good stuff p_r. I posted this as well last year.

the thing that strikes me about these laws is that they're good things. Aside from the physical sacrifices, they sound like things Christianity would be wise in practicing more often.

 

[p_rehbein]

Good stuff p_r. I posted this as well last year.

the thing that strikes me about these laws is that they're good things. Aside from the physical sacrifices, they sound like things Christianity would be wise in practicing more often.

Most of them are covered by the Laws of man, and possibly the Two Greatest Commandments given by Jesus which kinda indicates that we should - at the very least - be aware of them.

But, then, I'm a Legalist I suppose............

 

[SarahM777]

Most of them are covered by the Laws of man, and possibly the Two Greatest Commandments given by Jesus which kinda indicates that we should - at the very least - be aware of them.

But, then, I'm a Legalist I suppose............

I don't know but I thought it was all pretty simple

Romans 13

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 John 3

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,[SUP][b][/SUP] if the world hates you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? [SUP]18 [/SUP]Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: [SUP]20 [/SUP]If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God [SUP]22 [/SUP]and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. [SUP]24 [/SUP]The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.


Galatians 5

[SUP]13 [/SUP]You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[SUP][a][/SUP]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]15 [/SUP]If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[SUP][c][/SUP] you want. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [SUP]21 [/SUP]and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[SUP]22[/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,[SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[p_rehbein]

Sure, as I said.............

Did you read through the list? How many of the Laws found there do we teach our children every day? How many of them are man's Laws? Do we acknowledge them (man's laws) and obey them? Do we fuss about someone saying, "Hey, there's a law against that?" Do we say, "Oh, don't worry, so I lied under oath, I love you, so it's all good?"

Just saying............there are some there that are life lessons to be taught and lived by. Not especially as the Law of Moses, but as pretty good life lessons.

 

[SarahM777]

Sure, as I said.............

Did you read through the list? How many of the Laws found there do we teach our children every day? How many of them are man's Laws? Do we acknowledge them (man's laws) and obey them? Do we fuss about someone saying, "Hey, there's a law against that?" Do we say, "Oh, don't worry, so I lied under oath, I love you, so it's all good?"

Just saying............there are some there that are life lessons to be taught and lived by. Not especially as the Law of Moses, but as pretty good life lessons.

Yes,but how many of us look at them through the lens of love and not as a list of dos and don'ts?