Yes, He is. And maybe He made His Salvation Plan in Christ and in that sense saved us before time began.
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Yes, He is. And maybe He made His Salvation Plan in Christ and in that sense saved us before time began.
Bottom line. We are saved by grace through faith and not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
I've made plain my beliefs and why. I answered every question you asked. Do you still refuse to answer my question?
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, (also see Romans 4:2-3) many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.
The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. (James 2:18) That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." (James 2:21) He was shown to be righteous.
The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. (James 2:18) That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." (James 2:21) He was shown to be righteous.
I'll answer like this...
If you know what is wrong and what seperates you from Jesus, and choose to sin then you are seperated from your saviour.
Until you repent and ask for forgiveness you remain seperated. While seperated you are not saved.
We need to be born again.. walk in the Spirit. Die to self and live for Jesus.
Jesus knows all things so there is no hiding what is in our hearts.
By faithfully surrendering self to Jesus, which is being born again, you will naturally obey. But if we sin we can quickly repent.. Jesus came to save us FROM SIN not IN SIN
I understand that disobedience will interrupt fellowship with God, but it doesn't interrupt our relationship in Christ. Some here seem to be suggesting that one maintains their relationship through obedience, and that obedience is what keeps one in Christ.
This was the impetus for the question.
What you're mixing up is "Cause" and "Effect". The CAUSE of what Abraham, and Rahab did. and what JUSTIFIED THEM was their FAITH.
What they did was the natural EFFECT of their FAITH - i.e. the demonstration of it. a Christian is BORN AGAIN BY FAITH, not works. The NATURAL EFFECT of their faith will be WORKS.
As "Melancthon's Dictum" states: "It is FAITH ALONE that saves, but the FAITH THAT SAVES will never be alone"
Maybe you should use scripture because I already said you are being vague. I showed you the 1st commandments more than once so maybe you need to be clearer.
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Believer08
Guest
The original post clearly used scripture which states Abraham was justified by his works but you guys don't even believe in what's written. Use that beautiful brain GOD gave you. Faith WITHOUT works is dead. You will be judge according to your works so how can yall say this??
Grace is only given to those who keep the commandments that is what Paul is teaching. Before Paul was converted he kept the law but he was lost since he didn't believe in Jesus, you need both. Jesus is the law giver and you need to walk in his law.
Revelation 20: 12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
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Believer08
Guest
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.25 ¶ Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.25 ¶ Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
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Believer08
Guest
And they never will, because it refutes their doctrine of faith only/alone. Until people decide to understand that James and Paul are talking about different kinds of works, then they will never understand the point of James 2. That is the problem believing in faith alone without any act of obedience. James 2 poses the problem for people who believe obedience to God be saved is not essential. Their doctrine will contradict the Bible!!
J & P describe the relationship between faith and works from different angles.
James says that saving faith is manifested by good works;
Paul says that saving faith precedes good works.
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Believer08
Guest
All I can say is James said not by faith only (v24) while many on here says by faith only/alone. I have a choice. I can believe an uninspired man 2000 years later, or an inspired man associated with the Lord. I choose to believe James.
NOW - pay attention to the context that you've totally ignored.
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Believer08
Guest
I’m ignoring the context? That’s funny, because it is YOU who state no works justify, yet James says they do. You also say faith only saves, while James does not. Your problem is you are in direct opposition of an inspired man. I can believe an uninspired man 2000 years later, or an inspired man associated with the Lord. I choose to believe James.
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Believer08
Guest
Lesson by Michael Gill
BOTH James and Paul use the EXAMPLE of Abraham's obedient faith to speak about WORKS...
PAUL says justification is NOT of WORKS - of the OLD Law...
...and...
JAMES says justification IS of WORKS – the works of GOD/faith.
Recognize there is NO contradiction in what these two men of God preached!!
Each is speaking about... a DIFFERENT type of WORKS !!
BOTH Paul and James speak of the SAME TYPE of “faith” - the type of FAITH that Abraham had... an OBEDIENT faith!
(cf. Romans 1:5, 16:26, 2Ths. 1:8, Hebrews 5:9, 10:39)
From about the middle of Romans chapter 2 through chapter 4, the “works” Paul deems as UNsatisfactory in man's “justification by faith” are...
...the WORKS of the OT law...
...which required PERFECT law keeping!
Abraham's TYPE of faith (trust in and obedience to God) and was looked upon as righteousness by God!
Paul admonishes for the Roman brethren to "walk in the steps" of that TYPE of faith - 4:12 - that Abraham possessed... an OBEDIENT faith!! Obedience to God is NOT OPTIONAL!
Those WORKS provided by GOD's grace remain (cf. Titus 2:11-12), which WORKS earn nothing and allow no boasting (merit) – these being the WORKS of faith/righteousness, as PROVIDED FOR man, by GOD for man's obedience...
...which require CONSISTENT law keeping!
- - -
JAMES 2 speaks about the WORKS of "faith" - NOT the "works of the Law".
James also mentions Abraham’s TYPE of faith at 2:21 - which references Genesis 15:6 - the SAME passage Paul references at Romans 4:3.!
James has some things to say about a "faith without [God's] works" in chapter 2:
Vs. 14 - cannot save.
Vs. 17 – it is dead.
Vs. 18 – cannot be seen.
Vs. 20 – it is dead.
Vs. 26 – it is dead.
A FAITH complemented WITH the works of GOD is:
Vs. 22 – made perfect.
Vs. 24 – is the type of active faith by which man is justified.
James references this TYPE of works at verses 21 and 25 – the type of works that “justify” the one that believes in God, and James uses Abraham and Rahab as examples, with their WORKS of OBEDIENCE providing them with a SAVING faith.
BOTH Paul and James, while speaking about Abraham's obedient faith, speak in the context of a DIFFERENT TYPE of WORKS....
BOTH James and Paul use the EXAMPLE of Abraham's obedient faith to speak about WORKS...
PAUL says justification is NOT of WORKS - of the OLD Law...
...and...
JAMES says justification IS of WORKS – the works of GOD/faith.
Recognize there is NO contradiction in what these two men of God preached!!
Each is speaking about... a DIFFERENT type of WORKS !!
BOTH Paul and James speak of the SAME TYPE of “faith” - the type of FAITH that Abraham had... an OBEDIENT faith!
(cf. Romans 1:5, 16:26, 2Ths. 1:8, Hebrews 5:9, 10:39)
From about the middle of Romans chapter 2 through chapter 4, the “works” Paul deems as UNsatisfactory in man's “justification by faith” are...
...the WORKS of the OT law...
...which required PERFECT law keeping!
Abraham's TYPE of faith (trust in and obedience to God) and was looked upon as righteousness by God!
Paul admonishes for the Roman brethren to "walk in the steps" of that TYPE of faith - 4:12 - that Abraham possessed... an OBEDIENT faith!! Obedience to God is NOT OPTIONAL!
Those WORKS provided by GOD's grace remain (cf. Titus 2:11-12), which WORKS earn nothing and allow no boasting (merit) – these being the WORKS of faith/righteousness, as PROVIDED FOR man, by GOD for man's obedience...
...which require CONSISTENT law keeping!
- - -
JAMES 2 speaks about the WORKS of "faith" - NOT the "works of the Law".
James also mentions Abraham’s TYPE of faith at 2:21 - which references Genesis 15:6 - the SAME passage Paul references at Romans 4:3.!
James has some things to say about a "faith without [God's] works" in chapter 2:
Vs. 14 - cannot save.
Vs. 17 – it is dead.
Vs. 18 – cannot be seen.
Vs. 20 – it is dead.
Vs. 26 – it is dead.
A FAITH complemented WITH the works of GOD is:
Vs. 22 – made perfect.
Vs. 24 – is the type of active faith by which man is justified.
James references this TYPE of works at verses 21 and 25 – the type of works that “justify” the one that believes in God, and James uses Abraham and Rahab as examples, with their WORKS of OBEDIENCE providing them with a SAVING faith.
BOTH Paul and James, while speaking about Abraham's obedient faith, speak in the context of a DIFFERENT TYPE of WORKS....
I don't see how this subject is so complicated we are justified by works with faith because faith produces works naturally if you do not have works then you do not have saving faith and works or no works it doesn't change your salvation you cannot lose what it isn't yours because you are not your own anymore you gave your life to Christ so you cannot lose what you do not own anymore and if you don't have works that doesn't make you lose salvation it just pputs a distance in your relationship with God.
I agree!!! now find out what he REALLY said, instead of your "Theology" about him. Chuckle!! Luther had the same problem you do in the beginning.