Who and what are the two beast of Revelation 13 and mark 666?

[Chaps]

In my experience it gets shut down before it really starts, but there are a few on here who keep it on the down low.
I am just learning but it has changed my life, set me free.

I am not able to message but if you have the ability feel free. I promise to tone down my intensity, can't help it is genetic. lol

Ha, well Revelation is one of my favorite books. I know a bit about Preterism, but would be interested in asking questions and learning more. I (obviously) really like my view and feel it is a very empowering and insightful way to read the book. IF pms are a paid thing, maybe someday in the near future I will have that capability. If so, I will hit you up then

 

[TMS]

Do you think Daniel's prophesies apply to today.
Dan 2 is a basic time line.
It describes the second coming of Jesus.

God said He would allow the little horn to persecute the saints for 1260 years.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

42 months ....30× 42=1260

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

3 and a half years = 1260 days.

Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Who persecuted the faithful for 1260 years.?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Do you think Daniel's prophesies apply to today.
Dan 2 is a basic time line.
It describes the second coming of Jesus.

God said He would allow the little horn to persecute the saints for 1260 years.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

42 months ....30× 42=1260

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

3 and a half years = 1260 days.

Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Who persecuted the faithful for 1260 years.?

It will be the little horn, the antichrist.

I don't understand why he would "think to change times and laws." I can understand him wanting to change laws, especially that it will benefit him and prohibit Christians (like when Nazi Germans prohibited Jews from a lot of things to live normal lives). But what does it mean, "to change times?" Maybe set a curfew for Christians?


🏖️

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Can you give an example? It’s true that Preterists ascribe most of Revelation to the destruction of Jerusalem. I am not a Preterist, however, and so I see it as both/and rather than either/or.

some is oast some is present in johns day when he wrote it and some is future from his day

here’s an example the seven headed beast John saw in chapter 13 is being explained what it means in chapter 17

“And there are seven kings:

five are fallen, ( past )

and one is,( present )

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. ( future )



And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. ( past but not present in johns day )

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”( future )
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the whole book is like that it’s showing things from the past , things that were occurring in johns present day and also things that would happen in the future

at he intent of the book was to show what was about to happen in the near future but the content of the book contains past present and future context

The ot prophets are the way to grasp revelation

 

[Chaps]

some is oast some is present in johns day when he wrote it and some is future from his day

here’s an example the seven headed beast John saw in chapter 13 is being explained what it means in chapter 17

“And there are seven kings:

five are fallen, ( past )

and one is,( present )

and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. ( future )



And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. ( past but not present in johns day )

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”( future )
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the whole book is like that it’s showing things from the past , things that were occurring in johns present day and also things that would happen in the future

at he intent of the book was to show what was about to happen in the near future but the content of the book contains past present and future context

The ot prophets are the way to grasp revelation

I dont disagree with this that the book refers to the past, present and future. I am not a preterist. I just dont think that John is referring to one specific fulfillment…which is why I think there are cyclical visions that increase in severity (seven seals, seven trumpets, seven angels, seven plagues, seven bowls of wrath, etc.) Also, I would be careful with how we interpret the numbers in Revelation. I think people tend to pick and choose which numbers to count and which ones to view symbolically. Most people agree that phrases such as ”seven spirits of God” Jesus having “seven eyes and seven horns” and so forth are symbols for things like omniscience and omnipotence. Likewise the measurements of the walls of the New Jerusalem are numbers that represent absolute security, etc. Why would heaven have walls and what does it matter how many cubits tall they are? Seven trumpets, seven seals, seven bowls of wrath, 144,000 (12x12x10x10x10) are all symbolic numbers than need to be weighed, not counted

In the same way, the horns of the beast and so forth are representative of the power and influence of Satan throughout the globe. In my opinion, ALL the numbers of Revelation are symbolic as they are almost all multiples of 7, 10 or 12 which represent things like perfection, completion and totality. Even the number of the beast, 666, refers to ”the number of man” and indicates a carnal, worldly focus rather than a spiritual one. On that note, I think it is interesting that some interpreters insist that the ”mark of the beast” is an actual, physical mark, chip or tattoo, but make no such demand of the next verse in 14:1 that refers to the mark of Father “written on their foreheads.”

So, I think it is more consistent to see all the numbers as symbols rather than picking some to count and others to symbolize.

 

[Chaps]

It will be the little horn, the antichrist.

I don't understand why he would "think to change times and laws." I can understand him wanting to change laws, especially that it will benefit him and prohibit Christians (like when Nazi Germans prohibited Jews from a lot of things to live normal lives). But what does it mean, "to change times?" Maybe set a curfew for Christians?


🏖️

IMO, this was already fulfilled during the days of Antiochus Epiphanes IV. In reference to changing times and laws, I think it had to do with him trying to prevent the Jews from celebrating the feasts in their calendar, circumcise their children and obey dietary restrictions set in their covenant with God.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

IMO, this was already fulfilled during the days of Antiochus Epiphanes IV. In reference to changing times and laws, I think it had to do with him trying to prevent the Jews from celebrating the feasts in their calendar, circumcise their children and obey dietary restrictions set in their covenant with God.

Ah okay. I believe in dual fulfillment of certain prophecies in the Bible though.

Antiochus Epiphanes IV fulfilled the near occurrence of the prophecy while a future occurrence of it will fulfill it in full. Antiochus Epiphanes IV gives us an idea of what the final antichrist will be like. He was a Greek Hellenistic king who ruled the Seleucid Empire from 175 BC until his death in 164 BC at 40 years old.


🏖️

 

[Omegatime]

Three kings and nations conquered by the antichrist are Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia and the antichrist becomes the 8th.

Reference Dan 11:42 42 He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt; and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall follow in his train.

Rev 17:11

As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to perdition.

No dual Fullment here

 

[SilverFox7]

I love prophecy …. Around here though it seems like an invite to arguments to discuss much of it I have a lot of ehh contrary understandings from the popular things I read here so I basically avoid talking bout it very much

because prophecy seems so mysterious and broadly able to be interpreted , because it’s based on figures and imagery and statements that are cryptic and partial and foretelling latter things ect people form really differing opinions on it and get passionate I’ve noticed so I sort of try to stay out of it lol mostly


Im always happy to discuss any prophecy you would like to suggest or discuss with me though I dont see an argument between us happening . Even if we dont fully agree on something we just listen and discuss

And that's the way it should be, Pilgrim, when it comes to controversial subjects like prophecy. Arguing leads nowhere other than increasing the divide between opposing parties. Listening, tactfulness, and love should be at the heart of every discussion we have as disciples of Jesus Christ.

It's interesting to speculate about "end times" prophecy, and I especially look for specific messages given to us as God's people, so we aren't deceived by Satan and his "beast":

Revelation 13:4-9

New King James Version

4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [a]continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [b]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

Satan is the one who is the power behind the beast, and he is easily exposed by his "blasphemy against God" and everything God represents. The deception will be so significant that apart from the saints, "all who dwell on the earth will worship him"--the beast and ultimately the devil. Thankfully, this lowest of low points in human history will only last 3.5 years.

I love what John says to sum this section up by referring to "the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If anyone has an ear, let him hear." Our power comes from Jesus the "Lamb", and we are written in His Book of Life. We need to listen to Jesus and be filled with faith that He will lead us through any trial and tribulation that we face in this fallen world. The Lamb of God stands in stark contrast to the beast of the dragon.

I will take a look at reference material I have related to Revelation 13 and comment on a few specifics later that stand out to me like the number 666, which some believe refers to emperor Nero.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And that's the way it should be, Pilgrim, when it comes to controversial subjects like prophecy. Arguing leads nowhere other than increasing the divide between opposing parties. Listening, tactfulness, and love should be at the heart of every discussion we have as disciples of Jesus Christ.

It's interesting to speculate about "end times" prophecy, and I especially look for specific messages given to us as God's people, so we aren't deceived by Satan and his "beast":

Revelation 13:4-9

New King James Version

4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [a]continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [b]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

Satan is the one who is the power behind the beast, and he is easily exposed by his "blasphemy against God" and everything God represents. The deception will be so significant that apart from the saints, "all who dwell on the earth will worship him"--the beast and ultimately the devil. Thankfully, this lowest of low points in human history will only last 3.5 years.

I love what John says to sum this section up by referring to "the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If anyone has an ear, let him hear." Our power comes from Jesus the "Lamb", and we are written in His Book of Life. We need to listen to Jesus and be filled with faith that He will lead us through any trial and tribulation that we face in this fallen world. The Lamb of God stands in stark contrast to the beast of the dragon.

I will take a look at reference material I have related to Revelation 13 and comment on a few specifics later that stand out to me like the number 666, which some believe refers to emperor Nero.

“Satan is the one who is the power behind the beast, and he is easily exposed by his "blasphemy against God" and everything God represents. The deception will be so significant that apart from the saints, "all who dwell on the earth will worship him"--the beast and ultimately the devil. Thankfully, this lowest of low points in human history will only last 3.5 years.”

I dont see the 3.5 years to be a literal measurement of the time period . this is one of the things I see differently from most folks when it comes to prophecy and popular interpretations of it.

I see the numbers to be the same as the imagery to be representative of an understanding from scripture. And not actual literal measurements of earthly time but it’s only an old fools opinion so nothing to write home about lol

i do agree with everything your saying regardless of that part however especially we’ll just all of it .

you notice how in revelation things first happen in heaven then happen on earth ?

For instance this happens

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.


And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:7-10‬ ‭

But at same time it results in this on earth

“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

…And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:12, 17‬ ‭

 

[SilverFox7]

you notice how in revelation things first happen in heaven then happen on earth ?

Yes. We are and will be engaged in the battle as Christ's warriors as well. Woe to those who are living when Satan and his clan are cast down to earth. That will be the most brutal and vicious war this world has ever experienced, and we've had some wicked ones throughout our history.

Ephesians 6:11-18

New King James Version

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the [a]wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [b]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

God provides us with all of the spiritual tools we need to defend ourselves against the forces of evil. And, it's not like we are going to allow the devil and this world to take pot shots at us where we utilize truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, and salvation to go on the defensive. The opportunity will come for utilizing the sword of the Spirit to launch a devastating and decisive counterattack with the word of God.

The battle belongs to the Lord! We are his willing soldiers.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes. We are and will be engaged in the battle as Christ's warriors as well. Woe to those who are living when Satan and his clan are cast down to earth. That will be the most brutal and vicious war this world has ever experienced, and we've had some wicked ones throughout our history.

Ephesians 6:11-18

New King James Version

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the [a]wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [b]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

God provides us with all of the spiritual tools we need to defend ourselves against the forces of evil. And, it's not like we are going to allow the devil and this world to take pot shots at us where we utilize truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, and salvation to go on the defensive. The opportunity will come for utilizing the sword of the Spirit to launch a devastating and decisive counterattack with the word of God.

The battle belongs to the Lord! We are his willing soldiers.

did you notice what happens just before he’s cast out of heaven ?

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: ( psalm 2)and

her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭

and then notice who he goes to war against on earth after the man child who was born is taken up to heaven ?

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

watch how he goes to war

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1-2, 4-7‬ ‭

“But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls.

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:12-13, 16-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how in that narrative in revelation the woman with twelve stars in her crown the moon under her feet and sun clothing her ( israel see josephs dreams ) is promised a male child ( son ) and is expecting him to be born ( because it was foretold )

But then the dragon appears in heaven rebels and pulls down a third of the stars and tries to devour the child ? But he fails to devour the man child who would rule all nations and then he is caught up to Gods throne and then the dragon is banned forever losing his place in heaven where he started from and so he then turns his rage onto the rest of the children in earth where he is exiled to who obey God and bear the testimony of Jesus Christ ? The brethren of the male child who was caught up to God ? “ the rest or remnant of her seed “

and then immediately in the next chapter a beast rises up having the same image of the dragon who’s went to make war against them ? Then the beast who rises in the dragons image and receives the dragons temporary authority he begins to persecute the saints and has a temporary authority to do so to overcome them ? Even put them to death ?

And how that all corresponds to what Jesus told his disciples would happen to them and become a testimony for his name and how it would be fulfilled in thier generetion ?

I sort of look at it like it’s showing us the story of what happened in the imagery leading up to what will happen later in the end

“But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:24-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think there was what happened then to Jerusalem and that generation .

“Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:34-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then there’s also this time when Jesus returns

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. …..but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 7-8, 10‬ ‭

I think we can find both short term orophecy and long term in the new testement the end of Jerusalem and fulfillment of Israel’s covenant breaking upon that generation then after they killed him and he ascended into heaven And then the end of the world when Jesus returns from heaven to deliver believers and destroy wickedness forever

haha brother I have some different thoughts about prophecy I don’t really know what to say lol I’m sorry

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes. We are and will be engaged in the battle as Christ's warriors as well. Woe to those who are living when Satan and his clan are cast down to earth. That will be the most brutal and vicious war this world has ever experienced, and we've had some wicked ones throughout our history.

Ephesians 6:11-18

New King James Version

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the [a]wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [b]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

God provides us with all of the spiritual tools we need to defend ourselves against the forces of evil. And, it's not like we are going to allow the devil and this world to take pot shots at us where we utilize truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, and salvation to go on the defensive. The opportunity will come for utilizing the sword of the Spirit to launch a devastating and decisive counterattack with the word of God.

The battle belongs to the Lord! We are his willing soldiers.

I love tbis

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the [a]wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [b]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

“God provides us with all of the spiritual tools we need to defend ourselves against the forces of evil. And, it's not like we are going to allow the devil and this world to take pot shots at us where we utilize truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, and salvation to go on the defensive. The opportunity will come for utilizing the sword of the Spirit to launch a devastating and decisive counterattack with the word of God.”

i was hearing in my head an old hymn we used to sing as I was reading way back in Sunday school

“onward Christian soldiers marching as to war with the cross of Jesus going on before ….like a mighty army moves the church of God , brothers we are treading where the saints have trod …”

Paul often used great illustrative imagery of a war and battle armor and a shield and sword he’s really effective at communicating the message and understanding of freedom and life in Christ

 

[maxwel]

Who and what are the two beast of Revelation chapter 13? And what is the number of the beast 666?

One beast is Taylor Swift.

"And the first beast shall rise, and with a great voice speak all manner of wickedness upon her exes."



I'm just quoting from memory... it may be off a little.

.

.

 

[Chaps]

Ah okay. I believe in dual fulfillment of certain prophecies in the Bible though.

Antiochus Epiphanes IV fulfilled the near occurrence of the prophecy while a future occurrence of it will fulfill it in full. Antiochus Epiphanes IV gives us an idea of what the final antichrist will be like. He was a Greek Hellenistic king who ruled the Seleucid Empire from 175 BC until his death in 164 BC at 40 years old.


🏖️

Thanks for your reply. I also believe in dual fulfillments of the Bible. However, I think the concept of ”the Antichist” is wholly lacking in the NT. Usually, the passages that people point to regarding this figure are found in 1 John and 2 Thessalonians. I, however, feel neither of these texts are referring to a world leading figure that is a satanic figure that leads the world into “Great Tribulation.”

First, 1 John does not refer to “an Antichrist” but to “antichrists” that were present during John’s day. Clearly, these individuals were false teachers who taught twisted messages regarding the person and work of Christ. Thus, they were not people posing to be Christ, but people who were misrepresenting who Jesus was and what he accomplished.

Second, 2 Thessalonians “man of sin” I think is clearly referring to Satan. Paul’s basic point to these believers is to assure those who felt that they already missed the Second Coming or would miss it if they died (1 Thess), that this was not the case. He simply says that they would know that Christ had not returned until “the man of sin” was revealed and destroyed. As long as evil exists in the world, the figure behind that evil was still active and thus Christ had not returned. When Christ returns, that figure would be revealed and destroyed by the breath of his mouth…thus ending the tyranny of the one who holds the whole world under his power (1 John 5:19). I don’t think this message would be of comfort to the Thessalonians if the point was that they would know they had not missed the Second Coming as long as an evil, world leading figure had not risen to the scene. For, as you know, the Roman Emperor could easily be thought to be such a character and thus they could think: “Maybe Nero is the Antichrist and he is revealed and I have might miss the Second Coming after all.”

Third, the “Great Tribulation” spoken of in Revelation is clearly a present reality for John and his readers. In fact, John begins his letter by saying, I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus…”. It seems to me, that this tribulation has begun since the resurrection as Revelation points out that since the resurrection, the devil has been cast down and makes war with the saints. This is the tribulation we now face. Christians have been murdered throughout the world for millennia since the resurrection. In some places in the West, Christians have been somewhat blinded to the level of persecution Christians face throughout the world. In John’s day, Christians were burned on stakes and fed to lions. If that is not tribulation, I do not know what is. To suggest that this level of persecution and suffering is not a Great tribulation I find is both inaccurate and not consistent with what the NT speaks of the “last days” which began after the resurrection (cf. Acts 2:17; 2 Tim. 3:1; Heb 1:2).

Anyway, thanks for the dialogue. I appreciate your thoughts and input.

 

[cv5]

did you notice what happens just before he’s cast out of heaven ?

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: ( psalm 2)and

her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭

and then notice who he goes to war against on earth after the man child who was born is taken up to heaven ?

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Don't forget this reason for Satan being kicked out of heaven:

Rev 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

There is good reason to believe that these are the newly raptured Bride.

Furthermore, the devil is cast out some time about the mid-point of the 7 year trib. Satan immediately enters the "last Judas", the "end time Goliath", the end time "son of perdition", the anti-Christ. ONLY THEN, does the entire world submit to this newly empowered Satan-man (the counterfeit God-man Jesus Christ). Because he is unkillable as far as they know.

Rev 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

And consider: the holy angels have suffered chaos and anguish since BEFORE the fall of Adam up to this present day.
They only get relief at verse 10. Finally. And they rejoice because.....its almost over. And Satan is no longer in their midst tempting and tormenting them.

 

[SilverFox7]

I dont see the 3.5 years to be a literal measurement of the time period . this is one of the things I see differently from most folks when it comes to prophecy and popular interpretations of it.

I can understand your perspective on this as there is a great deal of symbolism in Revelation that should not be taken literally as some other members have noted in this forum.

I do think the 3.5 years could actually be a literal time period for the beast to be in power just before Christ returns because John says "...he was given authority to continue for forty-two months" (Rev. 13: 5). This correlates with the 1260 days Daniel references as well, and John said earlier in his vision:

Revelation 11:2-3

New King James Version

2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Note there are two specific references here to the potential 3.5 years the beast will be in authority, and the two witnesses will be empowered by God and "will prophesy" for that same time period.

Here's a great verse from chapter 11 that gets into the symbolic aspect of John's message, and it hits on a key point to consider with Babylon present and future state prior to Jesus' return:

Revelation 11:8

New King James Version

8 And their dead bodies [the two witnesses who are killed by the beast after the 3.5 years are complete] will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [a]our Lord was crucified.

Why would God inspire John to reference "the great city", Jerusalem, as Sodom and Egypt? I think this really gets to the heart of any city, nation, and this world in general where our spiritual state on the whole can be concretely expressed using Sodom, Egypt, and even Babylon to depict our fallen state as a race that is in rebellion against our God on the whole.

While Babylon has historical significance dating back to the early parts of our civilization (i.e. the tower of babel) and the greatest city ever constructed in ancient history, Babylon in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq), "Babylon the Great" appears to be the height of our depravity as human civilization separated from our Creator, and it appears we will reach the lowest point in Babylon's cultural and spiritual wasteland just prior to the 2nd coming of Christ:

Revelation 17:5

New King James Version

5 And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

Babylon is alive and well, and her harlotry pollutes a large part of our planet today. It will likely get worse (the tribulation) before it gets better (Jesus' promised return), and that's where my focus and hope in end times prophecy lies:

Revelation 19:11-16

New King James Version

Christ on a White Horse

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [a]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [b]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [c]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

 

[cv5]

I dont see the 3.5 years to be a literal measurement of the time period . this is one of the things I see differently from most folks when it comes to prophecy and popular interpretations of it.
‭

Yes it is. This is obviously the fact of the matter.

When did Jesus "arrive" to present Himself as King to Israel?
Precisely 173,880 days from 445BC at the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus aka 490-7=483 (360 day) years.

What remains of the 70 X 7 years appointed to Israel? One week of years.....7 years precisely.

The final week of Daniel 9, which is appointed to ISRAEL and Jerusalem, remains to be fulfilled.
And in Revelation Chapter 6-19.....it is fulfilled.

Dan 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:25
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Dan 9:26
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (3-1/2 years) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I can understand your perspective on this as there is a great deal of symbolism in Revelation that should not be taken literally as some other members have noted in this forum.

I do think the 3.5 years could actually be a literal time period for the beast to be in power just before Christ returns because John says "...he was given authority to continue for forty-two months" (Rev. 13: 5). This correlates with the 1260 days Daniel references as well, and John said earlier in his vision:

Revelation 11:2-3

New King James Version

2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Note there are two specific references here to the potential 3.5 years the beast will be in authority, and the two witnesses will be empowered by God and "will prophesy" for that same time period.

Here's a great verse from chapter 11 that gets into the symbolic aspect of John's message, and it hits on a key point to consider with Babylon present and future state prior to Jesus' return:

Revelation 11:8

New King James Version

8 And their dead bodies [the two witnesses who are killed by the beast after the 3.5 years are complete] will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [a]our Lord was crucified.

Why would God inspire John to reference "the great city", Jerusalem, as Sodom and Egypt? I think this really gets to the heart of any city, nation, and this world in general where our spiritual state on the whole can be concretely expressed using Sodom, Egypt, and even Babylon to depict our fallen state as a race that is in rebellion against our God on the whole.

While Babylon has historical significance dating back to the early parts of our civilization (i.e. the tower of babel) and the greatest city ever constructed in ancient history, Babylon in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq), "Babylon the Great" appears to be the height of our depravity as human civilization separated from our Creator, and it appears we will reach the lowest point in Babylon's cultural and spiritual wasteland just prior to the 2nd coming of Christ:

Revelation 17:5

New King James Version

5 And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

Babylon is alive and well, and her harlotry pollutes a large part of our planet today. It will likely get worse (the tribulation) before it gets better (Jesus' promised return), and that's where my focus and hope in end times prophecy lies:

Revelation 19:11-16

New King James Version

Christ on a White Horse

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [a]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [b]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [c]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

Amen brother I can see other peoples perspective being possible also

“he was given authority to continue for forty-two months" (Rev. 13: 5). This correlates with the 1260 days Daniel references as well, and John said earlier in his vision:”

yes that’s part of my point “times time and a half time “ three and a half years “ fourty two months “twelve hundred sixty days “

3.5 years

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭

“And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

( 3,5 years )

I believe one measure of theee and a half represents the old testement time period and the other three and a half represents the New Testament time period nearly everything in revelation correlates to other prophecy

One of the issues I have with looking at it as literal is nothing else in the whole book is literal even time periods

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭

i don’t think this is telling us to watch for a worldwide riegn of eleven kings that’s going to last for one literal hour .

See here where it’s talking about the beast with ten horns here it says it lasts for fourty two months there it says it lasts an hour ?

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1, 3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

another thing is the beast John sees is representing 18 kingdoms in one image show didn’t happen over th we and a half years it tooo hundreds of years Babylon rose up to power then media Persia then Greece eventually Rome

Awee John tells us the beast he saw is includes five kingdoms that had already fallen one that was ruling in his oreeent day and another that would rise soon

a then he tells of a second coming of one of those seven kings who rises up with ten others ….

i see revelation as the same all the way through even the time periods to be representative of prophetic concepts in the ot

abut again this is just my own different idea about it just like many other have theories about the book like yours I can see the possibilities and why people look at it like that also

 

[SilverFox7]

Don't forget this reason for Satan being kicked out of heaven:

Rev 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

it's good to have insight into how the devil feels about us as Christians. He accuses us before "our God day and night," and I'm sure he would love to rip us to shreds if God allowed it.

This verse from Revelation reminds me of Satan coming before God back in Job's day to accuse him as well (e.g. Job 1: 9-11). "Roaring lion" and "dragon" are apt descriptions of our adversary.