Who is God... Really?!

[Tigger2]

Dear trust-in-the-name:
Not at all. They (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are all eternal. The Father is the eternal cause of two eternally existing persons. Since the Father is eternal, everything in Himself that He causes must be eternal. If Jesus Christ is not caused, He would have been incarnate in eternity before He was incarnate in time, and He would have always been incarnate. But this is clearly not the case. He was clearly a man. He began at a specific point in time. Does this mean, as God, He was not eternal. His divine nature always existed as the LOGOS, the Word of God. It's just that His human nature became incarnate at the point in time when the Ever-Virgin Mary said "YES" to God the Father, and then the LORD Jesus, Who was eternally begotten by the Father, was conceived by the power of the Father in the Holy Spirit at a point in time in Nazareth. You cannot show that the Son and the Spirit cause the Father, but it is Church tradition that the Father causes the Son and the Father. The Son could not cause the Father, because, besides being true God, He is true man, and a man could not cause God to be. No. Causation in God does not at all necessitate that there was ever a time when the Son and the Spirit did not exist. Since the Father is eternal, anything in Himself that He causes must be eternal, thus the eternal Son of God and the eternal Holy Spirit. This is the divine Mystery of the Orthodox Catholic Faith (Jude 3). In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Ever Virgin Mary??? What a totally ridiculous concept. When she was impregnated by the Holy Spirit she was virgin, at the moment Jesus came forth the hymen was broken, so there fore she was no longer a Virgin. She also had other children as Jesus had brothers & sisters.

 

[Scotth1960]

Ever Virgin Mary??? What a totally ridiculous concept. When she was impregnated by the Holy Spirit she was virgin, at the moment Jesus came forth the hymen was broken, so there fore she was no longer a Virgin. She also had other children as Jesus had brothers & sisters.

Dear Tigger2,
Can you find a writing from the first 500 years of Church history that believes the Scriptures say that?
What do you do with Ezekiel 44:1-2? Can the NT contradict the OT? The OT says the gate was shut. The Church Fathers understood this gate to be the womb of the virgin. Also, where does the NT say "the children of Mary and Joseph". If it doesn't say it that explicitly, we should not believe it! Brothers and sister can mean cousins. Scripture sometimes uses the term brethren in terms of any close male relative, not necessarily an actual blood brother. Anyway, at the time Jesus came forth, her hymen was not broken. Christ's birth was supernatural, not natural, as Christ is God manifest in the flesh. Without violated the holy seal of her holy womb, Christ appeared miraculously outside of the body of the ever-virgin Mary. To believe otherwise is ugliness, heresy, and sin. It tramples down on the holy things of God. It tramples down on the traditions of the apostles. Some Protestants, in their quest to find human rights for themselves, and for women preaches, in violation of 1 Corinthians 14 and so on, allow and procure abortions for women. Abortion is one of the fruits of private interpretation of the Protestant reformation, in its liberal form; Luther may have not intended it, but it matters not. His insistence on "sola individual" alone with the Bible (which is what sola Scrpture amounts to), leads to modern Protestant liberalism. Denigrating the ever-virginity of Mary, advocating condoms, all other illicit relations, abortions, the playboy mentality. All of these are the fruits of the modern age we who have sinned need to be delivered from. God save us. Scott Erie PA

 

[zone]

Anyway, at the time Jesus came forth, her hymen was not broken. Christ's birth was supernatural, not natural, as Christ is God manifest in the flesh. Without violated the holy seal of her holy womb, Christ appeared miraculously outside of the body of the ever-virgin Mary.

wow. just wow.
there you have it.

just gotta make mary the Queen of Heaven....no matter what has to be contrived to make it happen. never heard this before but i'll have to look into it.

 

[Scotth1960]

As background, I was raised as a Trinitarian by

loving godly parents and went on to get a Trinitarian college education and then into

Trinitarian Pastoral ministry. I believed Trinity, taught Trinity, and declared anything

non-Trinity as anathema just like the majority of Trinitarians do. Then I heard the basics

of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and received salvation and was scripturally baptized.

After being grounded in the truth of the Word, I've spent the intervening 13 years in deep

prayer and study of the Word while fasting many months at a time. My one prevailing

prayer has been for the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him

(Ephesians 1:17). I've exhaustively studied Church history, and have read every

Ante-Nicene writing extant. I've researched the lives and beliefs of every early church

father and every permutation of Christian doctrine, as well as the philosophical and

gnostic beliefs of all the influential men of renown.

I say all this simply as an introduction and an overview of the means of my leading of the

Spirit. This is not eisegesis of my own view or a personal opinion; it is a thorough and

prayerful long-term exegesis that I have very nearly given my physical life for in fasting

nigh unto death. That process may or may not mean anything to readers, but I want to

clarify that this isn't just some academic intellectual opinion from my own mind.

I affirm the following:


There is One Deity.

The Father is Deity.

The Holy Spirit is Deity.

The Word (Son) is Deity.

These Three are One Deity.

The Father is Eternally Pre-Existent.

The Holy Spirit is Eternally Pre-Existent.

The Word is Eternally Pre-Existent.

The Father is Uncreated and Unbegotten.

The Holy Spirit is Uncreated and Unbegotten.

The Son is Uncreated and the Only Begotten.

The Father is not the Holy Spirit nor the Son (Word).

The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son (Word).

The Word (Son) is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.

The Son proceeded forth and came from God, Sent by the Father.

The Holy Spirit proceedeth from the Father, Sent by the Father and the Son.

(The Holy Spirit proceedeth NOT from both the Father and Son, though Sent by Both.)

Jesus is the Son of God and is Fully Divine, Begotten of the Father by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is the son of man and is fully human with a rational soul, born of the Virgin by the

Holy Spirit.

The Virgin Birth of Jesus was a Supernatural Procreative Act of God, not a Creative Act.

God hath made Jesus both Lord and Christ. He is the Lord Jesus Christ.


I'm not any forumulation of Trinitarian, Binitarian, Unitarian, Arian, Sabellian, Tritheist, or

Ditheist. I'm not Gnostic, JW, SDA, LDS, or any World Religion of any kind. If I had to

describe the truth in theoligcal terms, I'd refer to it as Merismos Monotheism. It is the

pure understanding of God as One Divinity, untainted by the doctrines and traditions of

men.

There are many understandings involved in knowing the whole truth:


The Rhema-Logos Word

The rhema-logos word

The Constitution of God

The Constitution of Man

The Creation of Adam

The Creation of Eve

The Life in the Blood

The Inward Progression of Sin

The Outward Progression of Sanctification

The Composition of the Tabernacle

The Composition of the Temple

The Temple Not Made with Hands

The Propagation of Human Souls-Spirits

The Virgin Birth

The Transcendence of Jesus

The Transcendence of Man

Uncreated Life vs. Created Life

The Earnest of Our Inheritance

The Redemption of the Purchased Possession

In My Father's House Are Many Mansions

...ad infinitum...

I'll begin with the basics and build a framework for understanding the truth. There is

substantial exegesis of Scripture beyond what I initially present, but I'm trying to keep it

scaled down for simplicity and general understanding.

"In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. The

same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was

not anything made that was made. ...And the Logos was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and

truth." -John 1:1-3,14

Logos and Rhema are inseparable, though distinct. They both comprise the spoken word,

but are two parts of that spoken word. There can be no Logos without Rhema.

Rhema is the substance content that is the subject matter that is thought and spoken

about. Logos is the reason, wisdom, and intelligent thought and expression of that subject

matter. Rhema is the Divine Content of the Divine Expression; Logos is the Divine

Expression of the Divine Content. Both the Rhema and Logos precede the utterance. To be

spoken, the Rhema-Logos is borne forth from the internal depths of one's essence,

containing the very substance of that essence in the external speaking forth from the

internal. It is borne by the breath (pneuma: spirit).

Rhema-Logos is the total substance of the complete essence of God's Self, externalized

from silence to expression by the breath of His Spirit. The internal Word became the

external Son, eternally pre-existent to proceed*forth and come from God.

Logos is the intelligent thought and speaking forth of all that is contained in its

counterpart, Rhema. Logos is the rational reason, wisdom, intelligence, and thought of

God spoken forth in the word or discourse of His plan and arrangement to reveal Himself

in and to His creation. It is his thorough contemplation of pondering, knowing, and

expressing outwardly and externally from Himself. It is the Divine Expression.

That which is being reasoned, contemplated, pondered, and thought to be outwardly

expressed is the Rhema. Rhema is the substance content of Himself... God OWN Self.

Everything that God IS is within the Rhema portion of the spoken word. It is the subject

matter of Divine Content. The Logos reasons and thinks to speak forth the entire

substance of content that is God's OWN Self.

The Rhema-Logos precedes the act of the utterance. God silently planned and arranged

within Himself everything that He was afterwards about to utter through His Word; while

He was thus planning and arranging with His own wisdom and reason, He was actually

causing the very substance of His own essence to become Word, borne forth by His breath

after it was initiated by His will (thelema).

He thought and willed to speak forth the entirety of Hismelf upon His breath, which was

the Word. His mind and will and emotion thought and chose and felt to utter the Word,

uttering the internal Rhema by the Logos to become the external Son.

God's OWN Rhema-Logos spoke forth Himself as flesh. His OWN Self as flesh. Not AS a

separate "person". Not THROUGH a separate "person". His OWN Self, that ultimately

become the person (prosopon) of Jesus Christ.

The Infinite Uncreated God as Spirit uttered Himself forth to become flesh. Nothing had

ever been external to God before He spoke. His speaking begat that which was internal to

become external. As He spoke, all creation came into existence as the realm in which He

would visibly and tangibly reveal His invisible intangible Self to mankind who were made in

His image and likeness.

Jesus is literally God embodied in flesh. Jesus is NOT another "person", but the person

(prosopon) of God.

(More coming. Next post imminent.

Dear pneumapsuchesoma and friends.

Who did Jesus Christ claim to be? Didn't He claim to be God, the Son of God?

"One of the most difficult things for people to accept about Christianity is the exclusive

claim made by Jesus to be God and the only Savior of the world. This claim causes

scandal to many, both those (ostensibly) within and those outside the Orthodox Church --

a scandal that is simply unavoidable. Outside Christianity, many actively resent any claim

that Jesus is God and the only Savior of the world. Yet this is indeed Christ's claim, from

which there is no honorable escape. C.S. Lewis and others have rightly noted that there

are only three logical options to explain Christ's making this claim: (1) that He was

insane; (2) that He was dishonest; or (4) that Jesus is who He says He is. To be sure, one

does not have to accept Jesus' claims, but it is simply silly to contend that He did not

make then. To be a Christian, however, one must embrace the Lord's exclusive claims

about Himself, scandal and all. ...

"... God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is One and ... salvation is bestowed only by and

through Him. ..." (pages 1-2: WHAT ABOUT THE NON-ORTHODOX. By Fr. David Tillman.

Ben Lomond, CA: Conciliar Press, n.d.).

God save us. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Tigger2]

Dear Tigger2,
Can you find a writing from the first 500 years of Church history that believes the Scriptures say that?
What do you do with Ezekiel 44:1-2? Can the NT contradict the OT? The OT says the gate was shut. The Church Fathers understood this gate to be the womb of the virgin. Also, where does the NT say "the children of Mary and Joseph". If it doesn't say it that explicitly, we should not believe it! Brothers and sister can mean cousins. Scripture sometimes uses the term brethren in terms of any close male relative, not necessarily an actual blood brother. [/size]Anyway, at the time Jesus came forth, her hymen was not broken. Christ's birth was supernatural, not natural, as Christ is God manifest in the flesh. Without violated the holy seal of her holy womb, Christ appeared miraculously outside of the body of the ever-virgin Mary. To believe otherwise is ugliness, heresy, and sin. It tramples down on the holy things of God. It tramples down on the traditions of the apostles. Some Protestants, in their quest to find human rights for themselves, and for women preaches, in violation of 1 Corinthians 14 and so on, allow and procure abortions for women. Abortion is one of the fruits of private interpretation of the Protestant reformation, in its liberal form; Luther may have not intended it, but it matters not. His insistence on "sola individual" alone with the Bible (which is what sola Scrpture amounts to), leads to modern Protestant liberalism. Denigrating the ever-virginity of Mary, advocating condoms, all other illicit relations, abortions, the playboy mentality. All of these are the fruits of the modern age we who have sinned need to be delivered from. God save us. Scott Erie PA

I am almost at a loss for words. Talk about being blinded by a theology. So the baby Jesus just miraculously passed thru her stomach without any labor pains huh. Never in all my days have I ever heard anything like this. Her hymen was never broken. Where in the world did you get this trash from? This is blindness at it's ugliest. Satan has told you this & your church evidently has swallowed it lock stock & barrel.

 

[AnandaHya]

Tigger2 some people on this forum all I do is pray for them. Its in God's hands.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

Dear Tigger2,
Can you find a writing from the first 500 years of Church history that believes the Scriptures say that?
What do you do with Ezekiel 44:1-2? Can the NT contradict the OT? The OT says the gate was shut. The Church Fathers understood this gate to be the womb of the virgin. Also, where does the NT say "the children of Mary and Joseph". If it doesn't say it that explicitly, we should not believe it! Brothers and sister can mean cousins. Scripture sometimes uses the term brethren in terms of any close male relative, not necessarily an actual blood brother. [/size]Anyway, at the time Jesus came forth, her hymen was not broken. Christ's birth was supernatural, not natural, as Christ is God manifest in the flesh. Without violated the holy seal of her holy womb, Christ appeared miraculously outside of the body of the ever-virgin Mary. To believe otherwise is ugliness, heresy, and sin. It tramples down on the holy things of God. It tramples down on the traditions of the apostles. Some Protestants, in their quest to find human rights for themselves, and for women preaches, in violation of 1 Corinthians 14 and so on, allow and procure abortions for women. Abortion is one of the fruits of private interpretation of the Protestant reformation, in its liberal form; Luther may have not intended it, but it matters not. His insistence on "sola individual" alone with the Bible (which is what sola Scrpture amounts to), leads to modern Protestant liberalism. Denigrating the ever-virginity of Mary, advocating condoms, all other illicit relations, abortions, the playboy mentality. All of these are the fruits of the modern age we who have sinned need to be delivered from. God save us. Scott Erie PA

LOL!

This is what you get when you add to scripture.