Who is receiving the Spirit?

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Scholars and Theologians make this claim because they were imprisoned like Paul was for doing as Paul and to be well known to the Apostle they were traveling because not every Apostle went where Paul did.

But there's other women leaders mentioned in the church.

I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is a deaconess of the church that is in Cenchr

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey. It's just simply that Junia was well known to the apostles and thought well of (some think Junia can also be a man's name so we're not even sure whether Junia was male or female), but Junia was not an apostle.

I agree with you that Phoebe was a deaconess from Cenchrea (and very helpful to many people). That's what it says in the Bible!

 

[Magenta]

Totally irrelevant. All the apostles were men.

Mary Magdalen was the first one Jesus sent to testify of his resurrection.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey. It's just simply that Junia was well known to the apostles and thought well of (some think Junia can also be a man's name so we're not even sure whether Junia was male or female), but Junia was not an apostle.

I agree with you that Phoebe was a deaconess from Cenchrea (and very helpful to many people). That's what it says in the Bible!

I actually got it from the Church Fathers from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Century A.D.

The idea that Junia was a woman was largely unquestioned in the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Origen, Pelagius, Jerome, Ambrosiaster and John Chrysostom all recognised Junia as a woman and apostle, and did so unquestioningly.


Origen said that Junia was a woman, an apostle in some sense for whom a “considerable difference”

Jerome (4th-5th century) ... claim where the feminine name Junia was altered to the masculine name Junias. ... The Apostle Junia

Pelagius claim junia was an apostle

Ambrosiaster claim junia was an apostle

In the first millennium of Christianity, Junia was read as being described by Paul as an apostle. For example, John Chrysostom wrote: “Greet Andronicus and Junia . . . who are outstanding among the apostles”: To be an apostle is something great.

 

[Cameron143]

I actually got it from the Church Fathers from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Century A.D.

The idea that Junia was a woman was largely unquestioned in the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Origen, Pelagius, Jerome, Ambrosiaster and John Chrysostom all recognised Junia as a woman and apostle, and did so unquestioningly.


Origen said that Junia was a woman, an apostle in some sense for whom a “considerable difference”

Jerome (4th-5th century) ... claim where the feminine name Junia was altered to the masculine name Junias. ... The Apostle Junia

Pelagius claim junia was an apostle

Ambrosiaster claim junia was an apostle

In the first millennium of Christianity, Junia was read as being described by Paul as an apostle. For example, John Chrysostom wrote: “Greet Andronicus and Junia . . . who are outstanding among the apostles”: To be an apostle is something great.

Were there other church fathers who said otherwise?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

To receive the Holy Ghost means He comes to dwell inside individuals. It's part of the NT rebirth. This truth was established on the day Jesus shed forth the Holy Ghost:

"And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:2-4

amen Jesus made a promise about the Holy Ghost in the gospel it is tbat promise coming to fulfillment when a person receives his spirit it doesn’t matter how we say it it’s just a promise he made to fill his disciples all of them forever with his spirit of holiness.

We can say receive the spirit , the holy ghost fell upon all of them , god sent the spirit of his son into our hearts , we were filled with the Holy Ghost, we were baptized in the spirit ….he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost ect it’s all a reference to a believer receving Jesus spirit inside of thier hearts and mind through believing the gospel

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All of the references are just always about the simple promise Jesus made to his disciples in the gospel “ I’ll send my spirit to dwell in you “

every reference to the Holy Ghost and man is about man receiving that promise of Gods spirit the spirit of Jesus Christ our Lord dwelling inside of our minds and hearts through the gospel and belief in the doctrine tbat taught us about the Holy Spirit and how to receive him

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Were there other church fathers who said otherwise?

Isn’t God the church Father

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Were there other church fathers who said otherwise?

I just typed: are there church fathers who say junia was not an apostle?

It said this person...

The sole voice of dissent from the first four centuries of Christian history is Ephiphanius, whose famously unreliable writings also claim that Priscilla (the wife of Aquila cf Acts 18:2) was a man.
^
lol this guy is claiming a guy is married to a guy

So NO!

 

[Cameron143]

Isn’t God the church Father

The original Godfather.

 

[Cameron143]

I just typed: are there church fathers who say junia was not an apostle?

It said this person...

The sole voice of dissent from the first four centuries of Christian history is Ephiphanius, whose famously unreliable writings also claim that Priscilla (the wife of Aquila cf Acts 18:2) was a man.
^
lol this guy is claiming a guy is married to a guy

So NO!

Your source is Google?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Your source is Google?

I use 3 search engines but you can look for yourself only 1 is claiming no.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I consider church fathers to be those within 500 years of the Apostles and Jesus.

Those within past 500 years are just Scholars and Theologians but nowhere close enough to the "source" itself.

If I want to know something, I believe someone within 500 years from the original source knows more factually than someone 1500 years away knows.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What we discuss today.
I would trust someone 100 to 500 years from now to know about our conversation today than someone 1500 years from now.

 

[Cameron143]

What we discuss today.
I would trust someone 100 to 500 years from now to know about our conversation today than someone 1500 years from now.

So if I showed you an earlier source that disagreed with your present position on a subject, you would change your view on the topic?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Mary Magdalen was the first one Jesus sent to testify of his resurrection.

That is incorrect. When you harmonize the four accounts, ALL THE WOMEN were the first to testify of the resurrection. Mary stayed behind and met the Lord then she also testified. It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not. (Mark 16:10,11).

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

So if I showed you an earlier source that disagreed with your present position on a subject, you would change your view on the topic?

If it's a single source and not several, I doubt it since so many said junia was a woman and an apostle. But I wouldn't mind knowing who else since it only gave me the one name.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When we come to the resurrection account, we note that the women who brought spices to the tomb of Christ came UNBELIEVING in the resurrection (as did all the apostles and disciples). But the fact that they were present at the sepulchre meant that the angels would tell them about Christ's resurrection, and they would tell the others. But Mary lingered while the other women left. Then she followed. And Mark tells us that all the women were involved in telling the apostles.

There is no question that Christian women have been -- and are -- very important both in the home and in the local church. At the same time God has given men and women very specific roles and that is also important. They do not minimize the role of women, but they show us the proper function of both men and women.

 

[Cameron143]

If it's a single source and not several, I doubt it since so many said junia was a woman and an apostle. But I wouldn't mind knowing who else since it only gave me the one name.

I'm speaking in general.
The plain reading of the verse in question is inconclusive on the matter in my opinion.

 

[Magenta]

That is incorrect. When you harmonize the four accounts, ALL THE WOMEN were the first to testify of the resurrection. Mary stayed behind and met the Lord then she also testified. It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not. (Mark 16:10,11).

It is not incorrect. You are simply wrong, as the women who went to Christ's tomb in Mark 16 were NOT sent by Jesus, and in fact were too afraid to tell anyone, and in Luke 24, nobody instructed them to report to the other apostles... they did it on their own. It was in John 20:11_20 where Jesus sent Mary Magdalene alone to tell the other apostles. Mary Is Magdalene was in fact the first one sent by Jesus to testify of His resurrection.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I'm speaking in general.
The plain reading of the verse in question is inconclusive on the matter in my opinion.

I agree and why I went and researched the church fathers who were closest to the source and especially Jerome who translated the Greek to Latin.

The modern day arguments I read dealt with if she is a woman then no way an apostle.

And I thought, how could modern day people know such a thing without it just being their own opinion.

So I researched 2 things.
What did church fathers believe Junia was male/female and did they claim she/him was an apostle.

And I see no reason to doubt their word since they're literally closest to the literal source.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I actually got it from the Church Fathers from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Century A.D.

The idea that Junia was a woman was largely unquestioned in the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Origen, Pelagius, Jerome, Ambrosiaster and John Chrysostom all recognised Junia as a woman and apostle, and did so unquestioningly.


Origen said that Junia was a woman, an apostle in some sense for whom a “considerable difference”

Jerome (4th-5th century) ... claim where the feminine name Junia was altered to the masculine name Junias. ... The Apostle Junia

Pelagius claim junia was an apostle

Ambrosiaster claim junia was an apostle

In the first millennium of Christianity, Junia was read as being described by Paul as an apostle. For example, John Chrysostom wrote: “Greet Andronicus and Junia . . . who are outstanding among the apostles”: To be an apostle is something great.

If that is what you want to believe, then go for it! I see no harm in that.