Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

Why Faith also Justifies !

According to Romans 8:33, it is God who justifies.

We are said to be Justified by Faith in that, not because Faith effects ones Justification, but because it is effected /generated into the ones already yet Justified

If they are "already yet justified", there is no need for faith. That is one of the problems with your whole scheme of erroneous dogma.

God tells us He imputes righteousness to those who believe:

Romans

4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.


4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Romans 4:20-24 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform. And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Because you read Scripture through the lens of your erroneous dogma, you refuse to comprehend what is the Scriptural meaning of the verse.


From the beginning, salvation has been through faith. We see this all the way back in Genesis 4 when God imputed righteousness to Abel because of Abel's faith:

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Those who do not believe God's truth when they hear it are the ones who restrain the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

God does not say that the unbelievers do not have faith to believe. What God tells us is that they reject the truth. They reject God.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope. The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


According to John 3:16-17, the ones who are justified are those who believe ... the whosoever believeth





It is not "impossible for Christ to have died for them".

It is possible for Christ to have died for them and they reject the most precious gift of salvation
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No sorry, The Christ of the bible didn't die for all mankind, the part of mankind He died for has been Justified by His Death.

 

[brightfame52]

you can't even stay on track with the discussion:

Here is your claim - Post 1257

Believers have been Justified before God by the Faith of Christ or Faithfulness of Christ.​

Here is my response to your claim - Post #1326

Not according to Scripture​

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Romans 4:​

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3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness. ​

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4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

​

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith [the believer's faith] is counted for righteousness.​

​

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vs 3 – Abraham believed. The verse does not say what you claim.​

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vs 4 – the faith of the one believing is counted for righteousness.​

​

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Quit making stuff up. Just read Scripture as written.​

Now you return to your dogmatic bloviation that the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ is insufficient to cover all mankind ... i.e. the whole world.

Again, I reiterate ... quit making stuff up. Just read Scripture as written.
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Yes again believers are those who Christ Justified by His death/blood. Rom 5:9 If one isn't Justified, Christ didnt shed His Blood for them. The Justified ones, made so, by the death/blood of Christ, shall be given Faith to believe.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is inherent in all mankind. Even atheists have faith. The problem atheists have is they place their faith in the lie that there is no God.
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No Faith is not given to all mankind. Paul says 2 Thess 3:2

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

To say all men have faith is to say all men have the fruit of the Spirit since Faith is a fruit of the Spirit of Christ Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[brightfame52]

Again, under your dogma if the "all men" of Rom 5:18 refers only to "all the elect", then only the "elect" were under condemnation.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men [according to brightfame52, this is only the “elect”]
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Again, if Christ died for someone, it put away their sins, their unrighteousness, God will remember them no more. Heb 9:26

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb 10:17-18


17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Now how can one Christ died for, and put away their sins, ever die in their sins, their unrighteousness ? Their unbelief ?

 

[brightfame52]

Again, under your dogma if the "all men" of Rom 5:18 refers only to "all the elect", then only the "elect" were under condemnation.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men [according to brightfame52, this is only the “elect”]
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Exactly it is all the Elect. That's who Christ died for Rom 8:33-34

 

[brightfame52]

brightfame52 aka accuser of the brethren.
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Don't you believe that there are people Christ died for that die in their sins unjustified?

 

[brightfame52]

Nope. The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


According to John 3:16-17, the ones who are justified are those who believe ... the whosoever believeth





It is not "impossible for Christ to have died for them".

It is possible for Christ to have died for them and they reject the most precious gift of salvation
.

Those who believe do so because they have been justified by Christ death.

 

[brightfame52]

you can't even stay on track with the discussion:

Here is your claim - Post 1257

Believers have been Justified before God by the Faith of Christ or Faithfulness of Christ.​

Here is my response to your claim - Post #1326

Not according to Scripture​

​

Romans 4:​

​

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness. ​

​

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.​

​

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith [the believer's faith] is counted for righteousness.​

​

​

vs 3 – Abraham believed. The verse does not say what you claim.​

​

vs 4 – the faith of the one believing is counted for righteousness.​

​

​

Quit making stuff up. Just read Scripture as written.​

Now you return to your dogmatic bloviation that the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ is insufficient to cover all mankind ... i.e. the whole world.

Again, I reiterate ... quit making stuff up. Just read Scripture as written.
.

I never said anything about the suffieny of Christ Blood,. His Blood Justified everyone He died for. Is that sufficient enough? Now if a person remains unjustified and does in their sins, Christ did not shed one drop of His precious blood for them

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ has taken care of the sin issue. However, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18), reject the Lord Jesus Christ:

Those who reject the sacrifice of Himself (Heb 9:26) will stand before the judgment seat

Excerpt from "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"​

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The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.​

​

https://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html​

.

If Christ died for a person He died for their unbelief and shall obtain mercy for unbelief Rom 11:32 and 1 Tim 1:13,16

 

[brightfame52]

John 10:26 KJV - 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

The Lord Jesus Christ had already said unto them. He told them Who He was:

The problem wasn’t that Jesus was unclear about who He was and where He came from. The problem was that the religious leaders rejected the Shepherd because they suppressed the truth in unrighteousness.


Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechó which means to suppress, hinder, restrain.
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You off on a rabbit trail, however the reason why some people will never believe in Jesus Christ and shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 its because they were never part of His Sheep that He lay down His Life for Jn 10:11,15 ! The Sheep because Christ laid down His Life for them, will be given the gift of Faith in order to believe on His Name Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[brightfame52]

Why don't you just believe what is written? Instead of the mental gymnastics you go through to support your erroneous dogma, just believe what God tells us ...

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

Again Faith/Believing is the fruit of having been Justified. Everyone Justified by the blood of Christ will believe in Him, for certainty.

 

[brightfame52]

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


You rip Rom 5:18 from the context within which it sits to prop up your erroneous dogma.

You forget what you read in Rom 4:20 through Rom 5:1.



Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

John 1:29 that world has been Justified unto life, it has no sin upon it, Christ took it away.

 

[brightfame52]

Your continuous repetition of this erroneous dogma does not equal what is written in Scripture.

Just read and believe what is written in Scripture:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


The key to understanding why the whole world is not saved is shown in John 3:16-17 ... that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Those who reject that which God has provided are the ones who perish ...
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Christ put away the sins of the elect before they had any being. If one for whom Christ died came to faith in 2002, Christ had already died for their sins centuries prior and doing so had put away their sins before they had being.

 

[brightfame52]

Read the verse again, brightfame52:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

Through Adam, sin entered into the world. Sin results in death.

Because all descendants of Adam sin, death passes to all ... not because anyone "sinned even before they had being or existence" as you erroneously claim.





I do not reject what is written in Romans 5.

I reject your erroneous dogma.

Your erroneous dogma rejects not only what is written in Romans 5, your dogma rejects what is written in all of Scripture.
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Do you not believe men sinned in Adam before they had an being ? Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

You see, by one man Adam, all have sinned.

 

[brightfame52]

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


You rip Rom 5:18 from the context within which it sits to prop up your erroneous dogma.

You forget what you read in Rom 4:20 through Rom 5:1.



Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

again all for whom Christ died, receive Justification of life

 

[brightfame52]

According to Romans 8:33, it is God who justifies.





If they are "already yet justified", there is no need for faith. That is one of the problems with your whole scheme of erroneous dogma.

God tells us He imputes righteousness to those who believe:

Romans

4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.


4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Romans 4:20-24 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform. And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead





Because you read Scripture through the lens of your erroneous dogma, you refuse to comprehend what is the Scriptural meaning of the verse.


From the beginning, salvation has been through faith. We see this all the way back in Genesis 4 when God imputed righteousness to Abel because of Abel's faith:

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Those who do not believe God's truth when they hear it are the ones who restrain the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

God does not say that the unbelievers do not have faith to believe. What God tells us is that they reject the truth. They reject God.
.

Did you understand why Faith also Justifies ? It brings Justification to the conscious of the Justified.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is inherent in all mankind. Even atheists have faith. The problem atheists have is they place their faith in the lie that there is no God.
.

Man naturally does have faith, but its worthless in regards to Spiritual and Divine things Lk 8:13

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

All mankind doesnt have the Faith of Gods Elect birthed in them by the Spirit Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

 

[brightfame52]

More on Justification before Faith !

The Justification that all men have who Christ died for, and that without them doing anything, they have it even while they are His Enemies Rom 5:10, it consists in forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7, which does correlate with non imputation of sin Rom 4:7-8, whereby the sins forgiven are never charged to their account against them, it also denotes God accepting them into His Divine Favor as being Just, Righteous, and accepts them as if they have never sinned; and again this is before they believe or obey the Gospel ! 11

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No sorry, The Christ of the bible didn't die for all mankind, the part of mankind He died for has been Justified by His Death.

Those who believe do so because they have been justified by Christ death.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


As you can see, brightfame52, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind and God imputes righteousness to those who believe.


Sadly, some reject the Lord Jesus Christ, even though He gave His life for them.
.