Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

No Faith is not given to all mankind. Paul says 2 Thess 3:2

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Not all believe the gospel and, therefore, they do not embrace the Christian faith, and many oppose the Christian faith.

To say all men have faith is to say all men have the fruit of the Spirit since Faith is a fruit of the Spirit of Christ Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Using your logic, mankind cannot love [Greek agapé] either … and yet we see unbelieving mankind can love:

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved [Greek agapaó] darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Again, under your dogma if the "all men" of Rom 5:18 refers only to "all the elect", then only the "elect" were under condemnation.

Again, if Christ died for someone, it put away their sins, their unrighteousness, God will remember them no more.

Again, under your dogma if the "all men" of Rom 5:18 refers only to "all the elect", then only the "elect" were under condemnation.

Exactly it is all the Elect. That's who Christ died for Rom 8:33-34

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

You again ignore the point, brightfame52, and I do not know if it is because you lack the ability to comprehend, or if you reject because you are in fear that your long-held dogmatic belief is in shambles …

The point is if the "all men" of Rom 5:18 refers only to "all the elect", then only the "elect" were under condemnation.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation


Do you really believe that only the elect were under condemnation ... do you really expect me (or anyone with connected brain cells) to believe that?

Now how can one Christ died for, and put away their sins, ever die in their sins, their unrighteousness ? Their unbelief ?

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechó which means to restrain, hinder.

vs 19 – clearly God reveals Himself ... even to those who reject Him. They reject God
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[reneweddaybyday]

brightfame52 aka accuser of the brethren.

Don't you believe that there are people Christ died for that die in their sins unjustified?

Now you're just trying to rationalize your bad behavior.

instead of excusing your bad behavior, you should quit accusing believers just because they do not hold to your erroneous dogma.
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[reneweddaybyday]

If Christ died for a person He died for their unbelief and shall obtain mercy for unbelief Rom 11:32 and 1 Tim 1:13,16

More obfuscation on your part.

The Lord Jesus Christ has taken care of the sin issue. However, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18), reject the Lord Jesus Christ:

Those who reject the sacrifice of Himself (Heb 9:26) will stand before the judgment seat

Excerpt from "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.​

​

https://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html​

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[reneweddaybyday]

You off on a rabbit trail

Nope. I showed you that the Lord Jesus Christ had told them and they rejected Him. Their rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ was not because they could not hear, or could not believe. They are without excuse and their rejection will result in consequences to them.

however the reason why some people will never believe in Jesus Christ and shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 its because they were never part of His Sheep that He lay down His Life for Jn 10:11,15 !

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind, the world, the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness will suffer the consequence of their decision to not believe the gospel which is able to save their souls.

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Everything we are and have ... our faith, our intellect, our senses, our emotions, even life itself ... we have because God has given it to us.

I believe God has given faith to all mankind ... and some reject God Who has given everything mankind needs in order to come to Him.

So, what we are told in Philippians 1:29 is that just as God provided everything we need in order to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, God shall supply everything we need in order to remain steadfast and not be terrified by [our] adversaries (Phil 1:28) so we are able to withstand when we suffer for His sake (Phil 1:29):

Philippians 1:

27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
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[reneweddaybyday]

Everyone Justified by the blood of Christ will believe in Him, for certainty.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind, the world, the whole world:


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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[reneweddaybyday]

John 1:29 that world has been Justified unto life, it has no sin upon it, Christ took it away.

sure ... and I've got a bridge to sell you.

"that world" is the world in which you and I live at this time. If there were no "sin upon it", there would be no need for us to look forward to the world that is to come.

Revelation 21:

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

...

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


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[reneweddaybyday]

Christ put away the sins of the elect before they had any being. If one for whom Christ died came to faith in 2002, Christ had already died for their sins centuries prior and doing so had put away their sins before they had being.

Scripture tells us the Lord Jesus Christ is the lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

That does not mean the Lord Jesus Christ "put away the sins" of some sub-set of humanity (the "elect"). The Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of all descendants of Adam, the world, the whole world:


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Do you not believe men sinned in Adam before they had an being ? Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

You see, by one man Adam, all have sinned.

Romans 5:12 tells us that through Adam, sin entered the world.

The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone sinned before they were born.


Romans 5:12 tells us that death passes to all because all sin.

The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone sinned before they were born.


Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


Ezekiel 18:

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Did you understand why Faith also Justifies ?

Faith does not justify. It is God Who justifies.

It brings Justification to the conscious of the Justified.

According to you, it makes no difference whether the "Justified" is conscious of whether he/she is justified cuz he/she is "elect".


Your dogma falls apart on so many levels when scrutinized under the light of Scripture.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Man naturally does have faith

Now you have done a complete 180 from what you submitted in Post #1384

So do you now agree that all mankind has faith ... that mankind has the capacity to believe?

All mankind doesnt have the Faith of Gods Elect birthed in them

Faith is an inherent part of mankind. No one ... not even "Gods Elect" ... has faith "birthed in them". We can be weak in faith due to our rejection of truth; or we can be strong in faith.

When we do not reject truth, God strengthens the faith we do have so that we become strong in faith.

If we reject truth, God can also strengthen our unbelief as He did with pharaoh.

What Does It Mean to Be “Born of the Spirit?”​

​

The Bible says that it is necessary for human beings to be “born of the Spirit” if they want to know the true God and eventually get into heaven. This is not something optional. Rather it is absolutely necessary.​

​

We learn several things about “being born of the Spirit” from Scripture.​

​

First, each of us needs a spiritual rebirth before we can enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus called it being “born again.” As we have each been born physically we also need to be born spiritually.​

​

The reason we need this spiritual rebirth is because none of us can get to heaven based upon our good deeds. Indeed, our sin has separated us from the God of the Bible. Thus, no matter how good we may be, we will never be “good enough.”​

​

The new birth consists in believing in Jesus Christ as Savior. Faith must be placed in Him and Him alone. When we do this we become “born again.”​

​

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Com...hat-does-it-mean-to-be-born-of-the-spirit.cfm​

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[reneweddaybyday]

More on Justification before Faith !

There is no justification before faith as you have been shown over and over in this thread alone (as well as in other threads you have started).

The commentary you submitted in your Post #1399 consists of a conflation of verses in Scripture.

You ripped verses from the context in which they have been placed by the Author of Scripture.

You then manipulated the text to promote your erroneous dogma.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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[brightfame52]

Everyone Christ died for is by His death/blood alone Justified in the sight of God Rom 5:9,19 even though they are not yet Justified by Faith. You see one whom Christ died for does not need to be Justified by Faith in order to be Justified before God or in His sight, for to be Justified by faith is only to benefit the Justified one in knowing of his or her Justification before God, for it is only a necessary consequence of having been Justified before God by the sole obedience of Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Here made Righteous and Justification are the same !

 

[brightfame52]

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


As you can see, brightfame52, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind and God imputes righteousness to those who believe.


Sadly, some reject the Lord Jesus Christ, even though He gave His life for them.
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Once again Jesus Christ didn't die for every individual of mankind, yet He died for every and all Justified person within all mankind.

 

[brightfame52]

Not all believe the gospel and, therefore, they do not embrace the Christian faith, and many oppose the Christian faith.





Using your logic, mankind cannot love [Greek agapé] either … and yet we see unbelieving mankind can love:

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved [Greek agapaó] darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
.

Again all men are not given Faith 2 Thess 3:2

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Faith is given to Gods Elect Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Peter writing to Gods elect said this about being given Faith 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Faith is obtained through God and our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ. If God saves one He gives them Faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

You again ignore the point, brightfame52, and I do not know if it is because you lack the ability to comprehend, or if you reject because you are in fear that your long-held dogmatic belief is in shambles …

The point is if the "all men" of Rom 5:18 refers only to "all the elect", then only the "elect" were under condemnation.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation


Do you really believe that only the elect were under condemnation ... do you really expect me (or anyone with connected brain cells) to believe that?





Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechó which means to restrain, hinder.

vs 19 – clearly God reveals Himself ... even to those who reject Him. They reject God
.

Rom 5:18 the all men refers to all the elect. The all men in Rom 5:18 are the same called the many in Rom 5:19 and they all were by His One Obedience of Christ have been made Just or Righteous, denoting the elect.

 

[brightfame52]

Now you're just trying to rationalize your bad behavior.

instead of excusing your bad behavior, you should quit accusing believers just because they do not hold to your erroneous dogma.
.

Don't you believe that there are people Christ died for that die in their sins unjustified? Yes or No ?

 

[brightfame52]

More obfuscation on your part.

The Lord Jesus Christ has taken care of the sin issue. However, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18), reject the Lord Jesus Christ:

Those who reject the sacrifice of Himself (Heb 9:26) will stand before the judgment seat

Excerpt from "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.​

​

https://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html​

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God shut all the elect of God up into unbelief, in order to show them mercy Rom 11:31-32

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Those Christ died for will be not be condemned for rejecting Him, instead God will be mercifiul to them and save them from their unbelief and give them a heart of Faith to believe/obey.

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind, the world, the whole world:


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

The Jesus Christ I love and Worship died only for the Elect and it Justified them before God.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope. I showed you that the Lord Jesus Christ had told them and they rejected Him. Their rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ was not because they could not hear, or could not believe. They are without excuse and their rejection will result in consequences to them.





The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind, the world, the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness will suffer the consequence of their decision to not believe the gospel which is able to save their souls.





Everything we are and have ... our faith, our intellect, our senses, our emotions, even life itself ... we have because God has given it to us.

I believe God has given faith to all mankind ... and some reject God Who has given everything mankind needs in order to come to Him.

So, what we are told in Philippians 1:29 is that just as God provided everything we need in order to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, God shall supply everything we need in order to remain steadfast and not be terrified by [our] adversaries (Phil 1:28) so we are able to withstand when we suffer for His sake (Phil 1:29):

Philippians 1:

27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
.

All men by nature reject God in Christ, but God Justifieth the ungodly who naturally reject Him.