Who Justifieth the Ungodly

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,337
557
113
I deny your erroneous dogma

I believe the gospel of Christ ... the full gospel ... not your manipulation of Scripture ... your half-truth concerning the gospel of Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

vs 3 - Christ died for our sins = the crucifixion

vs 4 - and He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures = the resurrection


Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Ephesians 1:

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come
.
You deny the saving, healing, Justifying properties of Christs Death for them He died, that is unbelief 1 Pet 2:24-25

4 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
You deny the saving, healing, Justifying properties of Christ
nope ... I deny your erroneous dogma ...

I believe the gospel of Christ ... the full gospel ... not your manipulation of Scripture ... your half-truth concerning the gospel of Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried,
and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

vs 3 - Christ died for our sins = the crucifixion

vs 4 - and He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures = the resurrection


Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Ephesians 1:

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward
who believe, according to the working of his mighty power

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come

.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,337
557
113
His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !2

Another scripture that evidences that those whom Christ died for are by His death alone Justified, made righteous before God, even while they are ungodly sinners in themselves is Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Christ death alone perfected forever them He died for.
Thats there total Justification before God, their perfection and righteousness before God, not based upon their faith, obedience, repentance, water baptism, but solely based upon His Offering, which is His Death.

Also His death alone is what sanctifies them Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus[His Death] Christ once for all.

Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

His own blood was purposed to sanctify His People, His Church, as in Eph 5:25-26

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Now this Sanctifying and Perfecting of those Christ died for is a fact before God even while those He died for are in a ungodly, unbelieving, and rebellious state by nature, because its solely premised on the Offering of Christ ! 20
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Christ death alone perfected forever them He died for.
the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all the descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.




brightfame52 said:
even while those He died for are in a ungodly, unbelieving, and rebellious state by nature
in eternity past ... before God created, formed, and made mankind ... through His foreknowledge, God knew Adam and Eve would fall and, as a result, all descendants of Adam and Eve would be born after the image and likeness of their parents.

in eternity past ... because God knew of the fall of Adam and Eve ... God made provision for all mankind through the offering of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. God reconciled Himself to mankind, even though He knew they would sin.

When a person is born, God does not "hate" him or her ... God is not angry with him or her ... God loves all mankind for God is love (1 John 4:8; 1 John 4:16).

God's anger is kindled when He reaches out to a person and that person continuously rejects God ... a person is not in a "rebellious state" until he or she rejects truth, rejects what is right. And God reaches out to each and every descendant of Adam throughout the lifetime of that person.

Because God reconciled Himself to mankind before the foundation of the world ... we know the issue is when does a man or woman become reconciled to God.

Romans 5:

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


vs 8 - God's love toward mankind is revealed in the death of the Lord Jesus Christ for all mankind while all mankind were yet sinners

vs 9 - being now justified ... we are now justified ... because of what we read in Rom 4:1-Rom 5:1 ... therefore, being justified by faith

vs 10 - the word "reconciled" is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she is justified. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,337
557
113
the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all the descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





in eternity past ... before God created, formed, and made mankind ... through His foreknowledge, God knew Adam and Eve would fall and, as a result, all descendants of Adam and Eve would be born after the image and likeness of their parents.

in eternity past ... because God knew of the fall of Adam and Eve ... God made provision for all mankind through the offering of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. God reconciled Himself to mankind, even though He knew they would sin.

When a person is born, God does not "hate" him or her ... God is not angry with him or her ... God loves all mankind for God is love (1 John 4:8; 1 John 4:16).

God's anger is kindled when He reaches out to a person and that person continuously rejects God ... a person is not in a "rebellious state" until he or she rejects truth, rejects what is right. And God reaches out to each and every descendant of Adam throughout the lifetime of that person.

Because God reconciled Himself to mankind before the foundation of the world ... we know the issue is when does a man or woman become reconciled to God.

Romans 5:

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


vs 8 - God's love toward mankind is revealed in the death of the Lord Jesus Christ for all mankind while all mankind were yet sinners

vs 9 - being now justified ... we are now justified ... because of what we read in Rom 4:1-Rom 5:1 ... therefore, being justified by faith

vs 10 - the word "reconciled" is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she is justified. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
Post 3704 do you understand it ?
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Okay what is it saying ?
I responded to points you brought up ... and rather than rebut with Scripture specific issues I pointed out, you replied with your tired old accusation.

Because you refuse to show from Scripture that Post 3705 is in error, the Post stands as unrefuted ... and your Post 3704 has been Scripturally refuted.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,337
557
113
I responded to points you brought up ... and rather than rebut with Scripture specific issues I pointed out, you replied with your tired old accusation.

Because you refuse to show from Scripture that Post 3705 is in error, the Post stands as unrefuted ... and your Post 3704 has been Scripturally refuted.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.
Evasive comments
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
nope ... truth ... Post 3704 has been Scripturally refuted and Post 3705 is unrefuted.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,337
557
113
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
From Post 3704:
Christ death alone perfected forever them He died for.
the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all the descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.




From Post 3704:
even while those He died for are in a ungodly, unbelieving, and rebellious state by nature
in eternity past ... before God created, formed, and made mankind ... through His foreknowledge, God knew Adam and Eve would fall and, as a result, all descendants of Adam and Eve would be born after the image and likeness of their parents.

in eternity past ... because God knew of the fall of Adam and Eve ... God made provision for all mankind through the offering of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. God reconciled Himself to mankind, even though He knew they would sin.

When a person is born, God does not "hate" him or her ... God is not angry with him or her ... God loves all mankind for God is love (1 John 4:8; 1 John 4:16).

God's anger is kindled when He reaches out to a person and that person continuously rejects God ... a person is not in a "rebellious state" until he or she rejects truth, rejects what is right. And God reaches out to each and every descendant of Adam throughout the lifetime of that person.

Because God reconciled Himself to mankind before the foundation of the world ... we know the issue is when does a man or woman become reconciled to God.

Romans 5:

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


vs 8 - God's love toward mankind is revealed in the death of the Lord Jesus Christ for all mankind while all mankind were yet sinners

vs 9 - being now justified ... we are now justified ... because of what we read in Rom 4:1-Rom 5:1 ... therefore, being justified by faith

vs 10 - the word "reconciled" is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she is justified. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,337
557
113
From Post 3704:

the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all the descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.




From Post 3704:

in eternity past ... before God created, formed, and made mankind ... through His foreknowledge, God knew Adam and Eve would fall and, as a result, all descendants of Adam and Eve would be born after the image and likeness of their parents.

in eternity past ... because God knew of the fall of Adam and Eve ... God made provision for all mankind through the offering of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. God reconciled Himself to mankind, even though He knew they would sin.

When a person is born, God does not "hate" him or her ... God is not angry with him or her ... God loves all mankind for God is love (1 John 4:8; 1 John 4:16).

God's anger is kindled when He reaches out to a person and that person continuously rejects God ... a person is not in a "rebellious state" until he or she rejects truth, rejects what is right. And God reaches out to each and every descendant of Adam throughout the lifetime of that person.

Because God reconciled Himself to mankind before the foundation of the world ... we know the issue is when does a man or woman become reconciled to God.

Romans 5:

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


vs 8 - God's love toward mankind is revealed in the death of the Lord Jesus Christ for all mankind while all mankind were yet sinners

vs 9 - being now justified ... we are now justified ... because of what we read in Rom 4:1-Rom 5:1 ... therefore, being justified by faith

vs 10 - the word "reconciled" is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

The one who is justified by faith (Rom 5:1) is no longer an enemy because he/she is now reconciled. Both parties are now reconciled.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she is justified. At that point, both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (see definition of reconciled translated from Greek katallássō).
.
How were they sanctified and perfected forever according to Heb 10:10,14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
How were they sanctified and perfected forever according to Heb 10:10,14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
alleluia ... funny how they miss that one.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
How were they sanctified and perfected forever according to Heb 10:10,14
you again err because you rip verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them.

Hebrews 10:1-2 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

The words "the comers" is translated from the Greek word proserchomai which means to draw near to God in order to seek his grace and favor (Thayer's Greek Lexicon) ... which is what "worshippers" do.

The proserchomai of vs 1 are the worshippers of vs 2.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we [the comers (vs 1) ... the worshippers (vs 2)] are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,337
557
113
you again err because you rip verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them.

Hebrews 10:1-2 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

The words "the comers" is translated from the Greek word proserchomai which means to draw near to God in order to seek his grace and favor (Thayer's Greek Lexicon) ... which is what "worshippers" do.

The proserchomai of vs 1 are the worshippers of vs 2.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we [the comers (vs 1) ... the worshippers (vs 2)] are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
You deny the sanctifying and perfecting death of Christ, thats unbelief
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
... I deny your erroneous dogma concerning "the sanctifying and perfecting death of Christ".

... and until you respond to Post 3718 (which is a reply to your Post 3716), Post 3718 stands unrefuted and Post 3716 has been refuted.

So, instead of falling back to your tired accusation, please provide Scripture which indicates Post 3718 is in error.


2 Timothy 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.