Who should you pray to the Father or Jesus?

[Muskokaman]

If I remember right is says Jesus is our mediator not intercessor, the Saints intercede in prayer for us in Heaven. Their are basically two viewpoints on the intercession of the Saints, the Lutheran/Anglican view which holds that we cannot ask the Saints to pray for us, but they do pray for all of us. Then theirs the Catholic/Orthodox/Oriental view which holds that we can ask the Saints to pray for us.

ok then what does the scripture say?
my bible says intercessor but mediator means the same thing anyways.
Once again if you ask a saint and not God himself through Jesus is this a correct form of worship?

 

[Muskokaman]

John 20:27-29
New King James Version (NKJV)

27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[a] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


Isaiah 9:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it...........................

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.



It's in our best interest to accept all of God's word..... These scriptures are also His word..Dont try to use to much logic to work God out. But that's what He said about him self

1 Well as for your quote from John. this was after jesus ascencion and Thomas was having a hard time believing he had risen so Jesus said put your hand in my pierced flesh then if you do not believe it is me this makes no referrance to Godhead in any way, rather about keeping faith.
2 Yes Jesus as your second quote pertains to was the first creation by the Father before heaven earth angels etc. Jesus was made
3 Yep the word became flesh alright because God chose HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to come to earth and atone for our sins past, present and future. I.E. the lamb of the world and was born a mortal man who when baptised by John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit come down and rest upon him became manifest in himself so as to bring fulfillment to the prophecies spoken in the OT.

The holy spirit also rested upon the apostles but they were not Gods ONLY son

 

[GaryMac]

Let us see what Jesus said concerning who to pray to Jesus or the Father.

23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
29His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
30Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God(John 16:23-30).


Jesus said when He ascends to heaven to not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father in His name.
Jesus said when He ascends to heaven that He will not to the Father for the saints,but the Father loves them and the ask the Father.
While on earth the disciples asked Jesus to pray for them,and dealt with Jesus to go to the Father for them,which Jesus told them no man comes unto the Father but by Me,so they dealt with Jesus to go to the Father.
But when Jesus ascended,His work being done on earth to go to the Father for the saints,Jesus would not pray to the Father for them,but they go directly to the Father.
Jesus said one day He would show them plainly of the Father,and that He came from the Father and goes back to the Father,then the disciples understood that He is God in a bodily manifestation.


We pray only to the Father in Jesus' name.


13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it(John 14:13-14).


Jesus said when He ascends to heaven ask in His name,and Jesus will do it.


Some people do not know this but Jesus is actually the Father's name,and the Son inherited that name from the Father.
Jesus is fully God and fully man,so Jesus is the name of the Father and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is the name that is above all names,not only in this world but in the world to come.
Jesus is above the name Jehovah but it includes Jehovah.
King Solomon said that the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain God,so how can a temple contain God,and God said My name will be there.
God's name represents His character and attributes.
The name Jehovah was not known until God delivered the Jews from Egypt,which represents physical deliverance,physical salvation.God then used compound names of Jehovah to identify each attribute of Himself to Israel.

The name Jesus could not be known until the time was come for Jesus to be conceived in Mary's womb,which represents spiritual deliverance,spiritual salvation.


12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself(Revelation 19:12).

Jesus is God's name that is above Jehovah but includes Jehovah,for the name Jehovah was not identifying God's supreme name,but a name used for the purpose to identify physical salvation for the Jews,and Jesus is the name of God to identify spiritual salvation to the world,but Jesus would not be God's supreme name because that name only represents spiritual blessings to mankind,and does not reveal all the attributes of God to mankind.


6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace(Isaiah 9:6).


The Son shall be called The everlasting Father.

6Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I(Isaiah 52:6).

The Father said one day He would reveal His new name to them and speak to them,which Jesus said if you have Me then you have seen the Father,and it is the Father in Me,He does the works.

4Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell(Proverbs 30:4).

God will one day reveal a new name,that will be the name of both the Father and Son.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man,so it is the name of both God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.

43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive(John 5:43).

6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word(John 17:6).

26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them(John 17:26).

Jesus came in His Father's name,for Jesus is the name of the Father.

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they(Hebrews 1:4).

Jesus is the name of the Father and the Son inherited that name from the Father.

Jesus is the name of the Father,and we only pray to the Father in Jesus' name,and we do not ask the Son for anything.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you(John 14:26).

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost.

You need to meet the Christ and have in you what Jesus had in him. Only then will you ask him nothing. You are trying to roll your responsibility over ont someone else. It is YOU who is suposed t have what Jesus had.

 

[jandian]

1 Well as for your quote from John. this was after jesus ascencion and Thomas was having a hard time believing he had risen so Jesus said put your hand in my pierced flesh then if you do not believe it is me this makes no referrance to Godhead in any way, rather about keeping faith.
2 Yes Jesus as your second quote pertains to was the first creation by the Father before heaven earth angels etc. Jesus was made
3 Yep the word became flesh alright because God chose HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to come to earth and atone for our sins past, present and future. I.E. the lamb of the world and was born a mortal man who when baptised by John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit come down and rest upon him became manifest in himself so as to bring fulfillment to the prophecies spoken in the OT.

The holy spirit also rested upon the apostles but they were not Gods ONLY son

Sweetie, Thomas referrred to Jesus as" my Lord and my God"

you cant just read the word became flesh without the earlier scriptures that said the Word is God.

And the prophet Isaiah described all that Jesus was and is

But I guess thats what you want to believe, so I aint going to fight

 

[SantoSubito]

ok then what does the scripture say?
my bible says intercessor but mediator means the same thing anyways.
Once again if you ask a saint and not God himself through Jesus is this a correct form of worship?

In the basest sense they mean the same thing, but in a religious sense they have vastly different meanings. The Mediator is Christ who was and is the go between us and the Father, since he bridged the gap sin left so to speak. While the Saints are intercessors; those who pray to God on our behalf. The idea of the prayer of the righteous being more effective goes back to James 5:16b "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.", and who is more righteous than the Saints in Heaven?

Really no one should have a problem with intercessors, since Christians of all stripes have them. The contention comes when the Saints are involved.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Let us see what Jesus said concerning who to pray to Jesus or the Father.

23And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
29His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
30Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God(John 16:23-30).


Jesus said when He ascends to heaven to not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father in His name.
Jesus said when He ascends to heaven that He will not to the Father for the saints,but the Father loves them and the ask the Father.
While on earth the disciples asked Jesus to pray for them,and dealt with Jesus to go to the Father for them,which Jesus told them no man comes unto the Father but by Me,so they dealt with Jesus to go to the Father.
But when Jesus ascended,His work being done on earth to go to the Father for the saints,Jesus would not pray to the Father for them,but they go directly to the Father.
Jesus said one day He would show them plainly of the Father,and that He came from the Father and goes back to the Father,then the disciples understood that He is God in a bodily manifestation.


We pray only to the Father in Jesus' name.


13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it(John 14:13-14).


Jesus said when He ascends to heaven ask in His name,and Jesus will do it.


Some people do not know this but Jesus is actually the Father's name,and the Son inherited that name from the Father.
Jesus is fully God and fully man,so Jesus is the name of the Father and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is the name that is above all names,not only in this world but in the world to come.
Jesus is above the name Jehovah but it includes Jehovah.
King Solomon said that the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain God,so how can a temple contain God,and God said My name will be there.
God's name represents His character and attributes.
The name Jehovah was not known until God delivered the Jews from Egypt,which represents physical deliverance,physical salvation.God then used compound names of Jehovah to identify each attribute of Himself to Israel.

The name Jesus could not be known until the time was come for Jesus to be conceived in Mary's womb,which represents spiritual deliverance,spiritual salvation.


12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself(Revelation 19:12).

Jesus is God's name that is above Jehovah but includes Jehovah,for the name Jehovah was not identifying God's supreme name,but a name used for the purpose to identify physical salvation for the Jews,and Jesus is the name of God to identify spiritual salvation to the world,but Jesus would not be God's supreme name because that name only represents spiritual blessings to mankind,and does not reveal all the attributes of God to mankind.


6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace(Isaiah 9:6).


The Son shall be called The everlasting Father.

6Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I(Isaiah 52:6).

The Father said one day He would reveal His new name to them and speak to them,which Jesus said if you have Me then you have seen the Father,and it is the Father in Me,He does the works.

4Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell(Proverbs 30:4).

God will one day reveal a new name,that will be the name of both the Father and Son.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man,so it is the name of both God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.

43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive(John 5:43).

6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word(John 17:6).

26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them(John 17:26).

Jesus came in His Father's name,for Jesus is the name of the Father.

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they(Hebrews 1:4).

Jesus is the name of the Father and the Son inherited that name from the Father.

Jesus is the name of the Father,and we only pray to the Father in Jesus' name,and we do not ask the Son for anything.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you(John 14:26).

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost.

Yep, exactly. God hath made Jesus both Lord and Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is God's name.

 

[Muskokaman]

In the basest sense they mean the same thing, but in a religious sense they have vastly different meanings. The Mediator is Christ who was and is the go between us and the Father, since he bridged the gap sin left so to speak. While the Saints are intercessors; those who pray to God on our behalf. The idea of the prayer of the righteous being more effective goes back to James 5:16b "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.", and who is more righteous than the Saints in Heaven?

Really no one should have a problem with intercessors, since Christians of all stripes have them. The contention comes when the Saints are involved.

Basest sense..................... religous sense.............how about common sense their differences are zippo, notta, zero alot of semantical dancing around an unsound doctrine is what it sounds like to me!
The prayer of a righteous man should be more effective so we should all learn to be more righteous rather than praying to saints to intervene on our behalf, worshipping them which prayer most assuredly is a form of is heresy and the apostles would say this themselves they never asked anyone to pray to them but to the father who is in heaven in Jesus name not to saints it's toal against what is taught and I seriously cannot see why this is not so evident to Catholics and Orthodoxy when the scripture states exactly how we are to pray and who to an who not to pray to. The evidence was in the garden of gethsemane and on the cross when he asked that those who were murdering him to be forgiven.

Jesus was and is the model, Saints though righteous are far from his level it is his level of piety that we are to strive for and if we fall short, thats why he sacrificed himself for our sins so that those who believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I'm quite disturbed about this question and the many references to God as multiple entities. THIS is why Trinity is such dangerous error. It leads to perceptions of such discreet Godhead threeness that some consider God to be three entities and ponder praying to each.