Who wrote the book of Hebrews?
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I believe all scripture is profitable to all men in all times. I actually inserted myself in your conversation and probably shouldn't have. But the tone and demeanor of a writer is at least in part dictated by his audience. And if something is written to a particular audience it may well require further study for someone in another set of circumstances to fully comprehend. We seem to be seeing the same coin from different angles and have ended up talking about apples and oranges.
The part where God commands to build an ark...was that to you or for you? The part where God commands his people to offer animal sacrifices...is that written to you to obey, or for you to see how God was working in the past? The part where God commands to stone an adulterer...is that written to you to obey, or for your to see how God was working in the past? The part where God warns to not take the mark of the beast...is that to you to obey, or for you to see what will occur in the future?
To you or for you...big difference. The audience makes all the difference.
To you = you're the audience
For you = someone else is the audience
The directions God gave Adam was not the same as the directions God gave Noah. The directions God gave Noah were not the same as the directions God gave Abraham. The directions God gave Abraham were not the same as God gave Moses and the nation of Israel. Pretty elementary to understand, yes? To you and for you...recognize the audience.
“But the tone and demeanor of a writer is at least in part dictated by his audience.”
so now we’re at “ tone and demeanor “?
are you saying shod has a worse disposition towards Jews than he does gentiles ? If not why should the demeanor and tone be different ? They thing is jew and gentile have all been deemed sinners
that’s Gods disposition towards mankind and his demeanor and tone is the same to anyone
but I think since your not talking about the ck tent of Hebrews I do t have any disagreement with you I though you were talking about what the book actually says being intended for Jews and not gentiles since that’s not what your saying I have no disagreement
how is the “ tone and demeanor” different can you elaborate ?
does God speak angrily at Jews and kind towards gentiles ? It might be me not getting it but I don’t at all see what your saying
“The directions God gave Adam was not the same as the directions God gave Noah.”
yeah and the word he spoke to Moses isn’t the same as Jesus spoke in the gospel what’s your point ?
all Christian’s need to accept and believe this
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1 KJV
all Christian’s need to believe God told Adam what he told Adam they shouldn’t get tbhink “ I’m Adam Gods commanding me that “
no Christian should think I’m Noah and this is the time of the flood so I need to Build an ark “
that’s not what I’m saying lol I’m saying the entire Bible is meant to be heard and believed by Christian’s
I’m not saying God told everyone to build an ark to ya a silly argument to make it’s all true I already know you agree to that
whatever instructions God have to israel in the gospel, that is for and applicable to any and everyone Jew or gentile anyone who believes the gospel is my point I’m in. I say calimkng we’re all commanded to build the ark of Noah
So yes I agree we aren’t commanded to build an ark we’re commanded to keep the gospel whether Jew or gentile
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
The Hebrews letter is part of this commission
@Runningman , you have a pure heart. Always seeking the full truth of the matter. As such, you will see God.
I tried answering before but it didn't post so I'll try again.
All writers write to a particular audience. And writers will treat different audiences differently. Even those writing under inspiration.
I gave the example of the gospels of Matthew and Mark.
Matthew wrote to a Jewish audience. His gospel is riddled with OT quotations. Conversely, the gospel of Mark has far fewer. Matthew's audience would more than likely easily made the connections because they already had a dirth of knowledge to draw from. To ask a gentile to make such connections would serve to confuse more than help.
I also used an example of preparing a presentation for work and one for career day at your son's school. Clearly the presentations could contain the same central elements but the deliveries would no doubt be significantly different.
Consider how you might share the subject of salvation with a 5 year old and a 15 year old. Salvation is the same...but if your presentation is to be effective for both your presentation will of necessity be very different.
As far as treating people differently God has always treated people differently. While He is no respected of persons Jesus rebuked Peter when he inquired of the Apostle John's future. And God certainly hasn't come to me speaking from a burning bush? Should I continue watching and praying? Lol.
While imprisoned in Rome at the end of his 4th missionary journey (Acts 28:16-31), Paul writes four epistles, three of which mention Timothy being with him (Philippians, Colossians, Philemon).
And if we place that next to the Farewell offered in Hebrews 13, we see v.19 saying, "And I especially urge you to pray that I may be restored to you soon." and v. 23, "Be aware that our brother Timothy has been released. If he arrives soon, I will come with him to see you." Now, at first glance this would appear to be Paul, a closer at the phrasing, "If he arrives soon, I will come with him to see you," is more revealing of someone apparently waiting for Timothy to arrive where (s)he happens to be at that moment.
Now look at the end of Paul's fifth and final journey while in Rome just before his death, he requests Timothy come to him and bring his cloak he left with Carpus and his scrolls, and ends his letter saying, 'Greet Prisca and Aquila, as well as the household of Onesiphorus"
Ok, back to, "And I especially urge you to pray that I may be restore to you soon." made applicable with someone expecting Timothy's arrival sooner rather than later. Prisca and Aquila had left Rome and looked forward returning to what they knew as home. They went to Corinth, where they met Paul I think, and then settle in Ephesus when Paul went on to Jerusalem, and back to Rome when they are Greeted in Paul's letter to Romans 16.
Of course, I'm mindful of my bias as I lean towards Prisca being the author of Hebrews, or even Pheobe since Paul calls her a deacon of the church at Cenchreae and thus would probably be skilled in writing sermons, especially considering the (coincidently?) conspicuous absence of virtually any information about her.
Anyway, consider taking a look at Hebrews with girl goggles on, without feeling silly about it, read it in a woman's voice I mean, especially of the "voice of God" sentiment throughout, and a madamfying glass look at Hebrews 11: 35-39 under the subject of The Faith of Many, and carefully consider the lead in subject, "Women received back their dead..." is followed by the possibility that the subsequent list of others might be used as a pronoun referring back to the noun 'women' along with they and these?
If anyone can too quickly say, "absolutely not, that's just impossible." then I just know that I don't have to them seriously either.
Oh, and please refrain from any accusations that I'm implying that God is a woman.
And if we place that next to the Farewell offered in Hebrews 13, we see v.19 saying, "And I especially urge you to pray that I may be restored to you soon." and v. 23, "Be aware that our brother Timothy has been released. If he arrives soon, I will come with him to see you." Now, at first glance this would appear to be Paul, a closer at the phrasing, "If he arrives soon, I will come with him to see you," is more revealing of someone apparently waiting for Timothy to arrive where (s)he happens to be at that moment.
Now look at the end of Paul's fifth and final journey while in Rome just before his death, he requests Timothy come to him and bring his cloak he left with Carpus and his scrolls, and ends his letter saying, 'Greet Prisca and Aquila, as well as the household of Onesiphorus"
Ok, back to, "And I especially urge you to pray that I may be restore to you soon." made applicable with someone expecting Timothy's arrival sooner rather than later. Prisca and Aquila had left Rome and looked forward returning to what they knew as home. They went to Corinth, where they met Paul I think, and then settle in Ephesus when Paul went on to Jerusalem, and back to Rome when they are Greeted in Paul's letter to Romans 16.
Of course, I'm mindful of my bias as I lean towards Prisca being the author of Hebrews, or even Pheobe since Paul calls her a deacon of the church at Cenchreae and thus would probably be skilled in writing sermons, especially considering the (coincidently?) conspicuous absence of virtually any information about her.
Anyway, consider taking a look at Hebrews with girl goggles on, without feeling silly about it, read it in a woman's voice I mean, especially of the "voice of God" sentiment throughout, and a madamfying glass look at Hebrews 11: 35-39 under the subject of The Faith of Many, and carefully consider the lead in subject, "Women received back their dead..." is followed by the possibility that the subsequent list of others might be used as a pronoun referring back to the noun 'women' along with they and these?
If anyone can too quickly say, "absolutely not, that's just impossible." then I just know that I don't have to them seriously either.
Oh, and please refrain from any accusations that I'm implying that God is a woman.
i have studied this awhile back and discovered some interesting answers. the TWO best were:
1. this is a sermon preached by Paul and written down by Luke
2. this was someone in the late 2nd Century making a personal outline of the Bible and it became popular enough they added it to the Canon
1. this is a sermon preached by Paul and written down by Luke
2. this was someone in the late 2nd Century making a personal outline of the Bible and it became popular enough they added it to the Canon
Last Chapter The author mentions Timothy, They of Italy Salute you. Paul in Prison ? Yeah , Paul wrote it that's my story and I'm stickin to it . Paul in Romans expounds on the differences of the old and new covenants same in Hebrews. Yeah Paul. I go with Paul.
Most will be going to the consensus on this one, of course, but if Hebrews is God using a woman to express His Voice, I won't be the one taking her talent and giving it to one with ten, just saying. Clearly seeing that that talent has been invested well.
That would be awesome. I would love for Hebrews to have been written by a woman if that’s the truth.
Lots of interesting points here about who the author of Hebrews may be and the case for it being Prisca is plausible. There’s even a pretty solid case for the author being Jesus Himself.
I still am leaning away from the author being Paul for the reasons I stated in the OP for now.
Origen wrote this in the 3rd century regarding the author of Hebrews:
“In the epistle entitled To The Hebrews the diction does not exhibit the characteristic roughness of speech or phraseology admitted by the Apostle [Paul] himself, the construction of the sentences is closer to the Greek usage, as anyone capable of recognising differences of style would agree. On the other hand the matter of the epistle is wonderful, and quite equal to the Apostle's acknowledged writings: the truth of this would be admitted by anyone who has read the Apostle carefully... If I were asked my personal opinion, I would say that the matter is the Apostle's but the phraseology and construction are those of someone who remembered the Apostle's teaching and wrote his own interpretation of what his master had said. So if any church regards this epistle as Paul's, it should be commended for so doing, for the primitive Church had every justification for handing it down as his. Who wrote the epistle is known to God alone: the accounts that have reached us suggest that it was either Clement, who became Bishop of Rome, or Luke, who wrote the gospel and the Acts.” He
Citation:
Origen, quoted in Eusebius, The History of the Church
“In the epistle entitled To The Hebrews the diction does not exhibit the characteristic roughness of speech or phraseology admitted by the Apostle [Paul] himself, the construction of the sentences is closer to the Greek usage, as anyone capable of recognising differences of style would agree. On the other hand the matter of the epistle is wonderful, and quite equal to the Apostle's acknowledged writings: the truth of this would be admitted by anyone who has read the Apostle carefully... If I were asked my personal opinion, I would say that the matter is the Apostle's but the phraseology and construction are those of someone who remembered the Apostle's teaching and wrote his own interpretation of what his master had said. So if any church regards this epistle as Paul's, it should be commended for so doing, for the primitive Church had every justification for handing it down as his. Who wrote the epistle is known to God alone: the accounts that have reached us suggest that it was either Clement, who became Bishop of Rome, or Luke, who wrote the gospel and the Acts.” He
Citation:
Origen, quoted in Eusebius, The History of the Church
A clue as to the sex of the author is here:
Hebrews 11:32
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Apparently the bit about “I… me to tell…” hints the author is referring to themselves in the masculine sense according to what I’ve researched and seen in a concordance. Not proof, but it’s helpful to make an educated guess.
Hebrews 11:32
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Apparently the bit about “I… me to tell…” hints the author is referring to themselves in the masculine sense according to what I’ve researched and seen in a concordance. Not proof, but it’s helpful to make an educated guess.
My point is, as a Christian after the cross, we need to recognize where in the Bible are the directions TO us. Paul’s letters are our main directions. Paul’s letters were given by the Lord to teach the body of Christ how to live in a dark world.
The teachings of Jesus, as well as Paul and Peter, and however wrote Hebrews. They are all the ful and final authority for the faithful (that includes all scripture) and we read it all through the lens of the cross.
Are there any Christians in the book of Matthew? Are those Jews that Jesus was teaching...were they Christians? Did they put their trust in the death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of their sins? Did they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Were they born again? Were they washed by the blood? Were they spiritually circumcised? Were they part of the body of Christ?
Or were they Jews, the lost sheep of the house of Israel?
At quick glance I would accept this as compelling. However, I'm forever looking more closely, as evidenced by my extreme nearsightedness
Trying to follow this clue in v.32 but am seeing "what," which is accusative/nueter/singular, as the direct object of "I more say" and I see (you) or the addressed in the letter, as implied "telling (you) of" as the direct object of telling, which is shown as accusative/masculine/singular
I'll have to defer judgment to a professor of Greek grammar here, when one comes readily available, of course.
