Whoever cares to answer

[Jimbone]

Yes, amen, We who preach the whole truth of God, are giving God all the glory and praise. But those who preach an unholy message of free, easy believism, are shaming God and are not giving God glory. It is not to God's glory when the church turns faith in God into an unholy, immoral thing that produces ungodly persons who shaming God to the world, by claiming to be saved be faith only and are still carnal as goats. God rightly hates the lies from those who claim to be of the TRUTH. The message of salvation is the change God makes in our heart, the new born child of God, is a NEW CREATION of GOD, " all things have become new" "all things are of God" 2Cor. 5:17-18 from walking in the darkness of sin to walking in the Light of God: JESUS.! In 2Cor.5:17-18 We see sanct, "a new creation" first, then Justi. second."reconciled". Most teaching today is messed up. with Justi. as the WHOLE salvation, making Santi, a second work of God. God saves by GRACE! GRACE produces the new birth first ,to people of faith in Jesus, then GRACE produces true saving, committing, working faith,out of the new birth. SO, "the just live by faith", they "live" for God's glory because of a true faith of good works, and love to God. False believers and The Devil will never "live" for Jesus, or "love" Jesus because their faith is only intellectual, not loving with the heart and life. Love to God, Hoffco

Man I agree with this so much. There is nothing I hate more then the teaching that you can be saved and be regenerated by the Holy Spirit and keep living the same sinful way as before. To me this strips Jesus of His power and makes His scarifies nothing more than a "free pass" to heaven that you decide you deserve. The people that oppose this view always seem to name it "work based salvation". I can't even seem to get through to them that the Work don't buy salvation, or come before it at all. After we are saved and regenerated by Him for free and by faith alone, we then show the works, not the other way around. Jesus does CHANGE US when we are saved and you can't be a "New Creature" if you're the exact same.

 

[fredjames]

Man I agree with this so much. There is nothing I hate more then the teaching that you can be saved and be regenerated by the Holy Spirit and keep living the same sinful way as before. To me this strips Jesus of His power and makes His scarifies nothing more than a "free pass" to heaven that you decide you deserve. The people that oppose this view always seem to name it "work based salvation". I can't even seem to get through to them that the Work don't buy salvation, or come before it at all. After we are saved and regenerated by Him for free and by faith alone, we then show the works, not the other way around. Jesus does CHANGE US when we are saved and you can't be a "New Creature" if you're the exact same.

The 'New Creature' my dearly beloved, are called to hear and practice, or in other words of CHRIST also 'abide' to be set free according to the New Covenant order, for all born again believers. In them consist of HIS commandments and instructions of spirit and life to the church today. And this what the Apostles testified, by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, have been written and established in the New Covenant.

The difficulty is we are running in carnal/flesh that wars against the HOLY SPIRIT, and stop us from what we want to do.

 

[LEPIDUS]

Because you see sin as dirty filth and feel guilty if you do.And your main Goal is to be as Christ like as possible.now if you dont feel something like that or anything then id examin your Christian walk..more then likely somethings wrong..judged by deeds for reward by what your true intent was by doing so..other judgement dont really think it matters if finally youll be tossed into the lake of fire .non beliver

People like to jump into conclusion all the time. I disregard post like the one above.

Re: Whoever cares to answer

Originally Posted by Patnubay
Because grace needs acceptance before it becomes yours. And you can only accept grace thru faith. And faith is dead without deeds. Hence the equation will be : NO DEED = NO FAITH
and NO FAITH = NO GRACE

So God's grace on you will always be dependent on your deed.

I always tell myself this: how can I say I love God ( faith ) when I can't love the person beside me ( deed).



This is the closest answer to what I was looking for. Lets take it a bit further, Jesus summed up the Ten Commandments in two love God with all your heart, mind and soul and love thy neighbor like thyself, but these two don't replace the Ten Commandments it only magnifies them as to how they are suppose to be kept.

2 John 1

4 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father.5 And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.6And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.

So yes although we are saved by grace, we will be judged by our deeds. Although we are saved by grace Christ also gave us the foundation on how to walk in Love, by keeping The Commandments.​

 

[Hoffco]

To Jimbone and fredjames for confirming my post #154. To LEPIDUS, I agree with your post 163 but I would say, SINCE, we are saved by God's powerful transforming GRACE, God can judge us by our works for eternal life or for damnation; Keeping in mind, that God's judging our works is done on a curve, because our works are always imperfect, therefore, the real bases for our salvation is always, Jesus' works, active and passive, He always did His Father's will, perfectly, for us. Our holiness is never the BASES for our salvation. I agree we must obey God's laws from/of the N.T. which repeats the Moral laws of all the ten commandments,O.T., and adds holiness principles for us to judge for ourselves as to what what is holy for us in our given situation, like should we have a TV. PC. car etc. love Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Please, keep in mind, the Bibles definition of Grace is, God's transforming power and forgiving love, all UNDESERVED. Love Hoffco

 

[LEPIDUS]

To Jimbone and fredjames for confirming my post #154. To LEPIDUS, I agree with your post 163 but I would say, SINCE, we are saved by God's powerful transforming GRACE, God can judge us by our works for eternal life or for damnation; Keeping in mind, that God's judging our works is done on a curve, because our works are always imperfect, therefore, the real bases for our salvation is always, Jesus' works, active and passive, He always did His Father's will, perfectly, for us. Our holiness is never the BASES for our salvation. I agree we must obey God's laws from/of the N.T. which repeats the Moral laws of all the ten commandments,O.T., and adds holiness principles for us to judge for ourselves as to what what is holy for us in our given situation, like should we have a TV. PC. car etc. love Hoffco

We are not saved by doing these works, we do these works because we are saved. No one should try to be saved by doing them.

 

[Hoffco]

We are not saved by doing these works, we do these works because we are saved. No one should try to be saved by doing them.

Your first sentence is right; But your 2nd and last sentence is dead wrong. The whole Bible tells us we are motivated by God, to do good, and to gain eternal life. Only good people are saved. Jh.3:21 tells us, only good, born again people, who are made holy God ,and do good works, will receive Jesus as their Savior and Lord. You are missing half of your Bible. God will judge you as an unfaithful servant, you may not be saved, I am not the judge of that,: But, I will judge your message as false. Love Hoffco

 

[LEPIDUS]

Your first sentence is right; But your 2nd and last sentence is dead wrong. The whole Bible tells us we are motivated by God, to do good, and to gain eternal life. Only good people are saved. Jh.3:21 tells us, only good, born again people, who are made holy God ,and do good works, will receive Jesus as their Savior and Lord. You are missing half of your Bible. God will judge you as an unfaithful servant, you may not be saved, I am not the judge of that,: But, I will judge your message as false. Love Hoffco

This is from another post I made in another thread.

Thank you for explaining, and yes you are correct Paul was rebuking them for trying to be saved by keeping the law like tradition, by technicalities how the pharisees were doing, instead of keeping them how Jesus taught. Nowhere does he say they are done away with.

The point I'm making is that because we are saved we want to do the will of God. Obey his commandments, by the example of Christ.

And by the way you are double minded. I read some of your post,you agree and contradict people who say the same.

 

[Jason0047]

Since you are speaking of Abraham, allow me to add...

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Some people think salvation is a license to sin because Jesus paid all their sins (Including all their future sins whereby they do not have to confess of their sins and or live for God). This is one wrong extreme called "Antinomianism." The other wrong extreme is saying that you are not saved by the work of the cross but you are saved by a "To Do List." or Man made Legalism (Like baptismal salvation, etc.). One has to realize that Abraham was saved (i.e. born again or circumcised in heart spiritually) when he first believed God. His belief was accounted to him as righteousness before he actually obeyed. Why did he obey? Was it because he was extra special? No. He obeyed because he was transformed spiritually by God. He was born again spiritually by God and had a relationship with the Lord. Does Abraham deserve all the glory for the good works that he did within his life? No. While Abraham will be rewarded for his works, Abraham (Like all believers) are merely abiding in the righteousness of God. Abraham was merely allowing God to do the "good work" within him. In other words, God (Christ) ultimately does the "good work" within the believer. It's not you. For if it was you, then Jesus would not say that we can do nothing without Him.

 

[Jason0047]

For it's why the elders cast down their crowns before Jesus.

 

[Elin]

Some people think salvation is a license to sin because Jesus paid all their sins (Including all their future sins whereby they do not have to confess of their sins and or live for God). This is one wrong extreme called "Antinomianism." The other wrong extreme is saying that you are not saved by the work of the cross but you are saved by a "To Do List." or Man made Legalism (Like baptismal salvation, etc.). One has to realize that Abraham was saved (i.e. born again or circumcised in heart spiritually) when he first believed God. His belief was accounted to him as righteousness before he actually obeyed. Why did he obey? Was it because he was extra special? No. He obeyed because he was transformed spiritually by God. He was born again spiritually by God and had a relationship with the Lord. Does Abraham deserve all the glory for the good works that he did within his life? No. While Abraham will be rewarded for his works, Abraham (Like all believers) are merely abiding in the righteousness of God. Abraham was merely allowing God to do the "good work" within him. In other words,
God (Christ) ultimately does the "good work" within the believer. It's not you.
For if it was you, then Jesus would not say that we can do nothing without Him.

God does it all in us, then crowns us for the work he did in us, which is why we cast down our golden crowns around the glassy sea.

 

[newbirth]

I agree and will add...any righteous works done by anyone is done by Jesus dia the Holy Spirit in YOU and it is Christ that does the work and not we ourselves!

the scriptures say we are created unto good works.....
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You can give him all the praise and all the glory ...but you have to do the work....

 

[twotwo]

If we are saved by grace, why are we judged by our deeds?

It is because we are saved to do good deeds. This is as simple as that.

As it is written: “For he that doeth wrong shall receive again for the wrong that he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.”

How could we become a good person if God does not open our eyes?

 

[newbirth]

We are not saved by doing these works, we do these works because we are saved. No one should try to be saved by doing them.

so if we don't do them we disobey God and we are still saved? It is not called trying to be saved...it is called abiding in Him...

 

[newbirth]

Some people think salvation is a license to sin because Jesus paid all their sins (Including all their future sins whereby they do not have to confess of their sins and or live for God). This is one wrong extreme called "Antinomianism." The other wrong extreme is saying that you are not saved by the work of the cross but you are saved by a "To Do List." or Man made Legalism (Like baptismal salvation, etc.). One has to realize that Abraham was saved (i.e. born again or circumcised in heart spiritually) when he first believed God. His belief was accounted to him as righteousness before he actually obeyed. Why did he obey? Was it because he was extra special? No. He obeyed because he was transformed spiritually by God. He was born again spiritually by God and had a relationship with the Lord. Does Abraham deserve all the glory for the good works that he did within his life? No. While Abraham will be rewarded for his works, Abraham (Like all believers) are merely abiding in the righteousness of God. Abraham was merely allowing God to do the "good work" within him. In other words, God (Christ) ultimately does the "good work" within the believer. It's not you. For if it was you, then Jesus would not say that we can do nothing without Him.

If He said we can do nothing without Him......how does that translate He is doing the work.....He dwells in us ,He gave us all things that pertain to life and godliness and you still want him to do the work....
2 Peter 1


[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[Jason0047]

If He said we can do nothing without Him......how does that translate He is doing the work.....He dwells in us ,He gave us all things that pertain to life and godliness and you still want him to do the work....

On various topics in the Bible, the Scriptures are written sometimes from two different perspectives. For example: In the Scriptures, sometimes it appears that God does not know certain things and yet other times it appears that God does indeed know all things. Is this a contradiction in Scripture? No, most certainly not. One perspective or set of Scriptures teach that God is eternal and knows all things and the other perspective is written from the perspective of how God relates to man from a human perspective. It's the same with the topic of faith vs. works. In Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul essentially says we are saved by grace and not of works. Yet James essentially says in James 2:17 that faith without works is a dead faith. This leads us to the teaching within Scripture that tells us that God is the One who ultimately does the work within the believer. How so?

Well, here is a list of verses that tell us that it is God (Christ) that does the work in a believer's life.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22, 23, 24 (cf. Matthew 7:16, 18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26, 27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

 

[Jason0047]

For James and Paul go together. Like two sides of the same coin, they don't conflict with each other; they compliment each other. Both teach us something vital. Paul looks at what goes on internally; James talks about the external results. Paul says, "We're saved by faith." James says, "This is what saving faith looks like."

In other words, works do not save in and of themselves. Works are just the natural result of a true faith (Which is when a person repents of their sins and accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior for real). Jesus is the source of salvation (1 John 5:12). It's not you. Salvation is in Jesus Christ. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (Both in Justification and in Sanctification). For Jesus deserves all the glory, honor, and power.


Source:
http://www.str.org/articles/faith-an...paul-vs.-james

 

[Kerry]

So what difference does it make?

 

[Jason0047]

So what difference does it make?

Properly understanding salvation is a matter of spiritual life or spiritual death. I mention the extreme wrong views in Post #169 above.

 

[Kerry]

So there is more than the cross?