Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

[IamWhoIam]

when God created the universe and everything within it, did that take God faith to turn out like it is? or did God already know the beginning and end of it all?, Faith do people have this faith to know what tomorrow and the next will bring.

 

[MarcR]

Hi DR...I had a a nice surprize a few days ago from our Father God...He told me that He has given me a gift of faith...I have been walking with our Lord for these past 22 months feeling shaky more then feeling secure, It was making me miserable in my walk, I asked God to show me why I feel this way, and He told me He has given me His gift called faith, well once I looked up the word faith, my whole walk has changed, He now has me seeking Him to find out who I am in Christ, and now I am walking in my faith, a precious gift from God and I am using it...Knowing my faith is a gift from God has secured me from being shaky...His gift of faith to me is mine to have faith in Him, trusting, leaning and relying on Him, when I put my faith in Him, He will grow my faith through Him when I show my faithfulness in trials and tribulations...Correct me if I am wrong, I am stretching out here and eager to learn...xox...

You have it exactly right! Also you do us a service to remind us of the rightness of it. It is not that most of us don't know (most of us do); it is that we often get ahead of the Lord and fall on our faces.

 

[Depleted]

there is a man hate evil but do evil, Paul hate sin but his flesh did sin

but there is a man love do evil and do evil

every body do evil but some love o it some hate but do


Roman 7
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

a man not able to do good, not even Paul.

but Paul hate sin.

no body able to do good, but there are people doing sin and love sin, and there are people hate sin but doing sin

verse 21 say he that do truth come to Me.

who do truth, even Paul do sin.

my interpretation is every one that love doing truth though. fail like Paul, consider doing truth, when Paul kill Stephen he think he is doing truth, so he love doing truth, finally Jesus show him what is the right to do the truth, and he come tho the light.

True again. But then again, you're talking about Paul, not his before-regeneration-name man, Saul.

And, again, read everything he said before this -- all the way back to Romans 1. Because everything up to this is pointing to this. He went, step-by-step through every possible way Man can save himself -- the Law, morality, being born into the right nation (Israel) -- and none of it worked. Even Paul -- PAUL, the dude he got Christianity the rightest -- couldn't do what he wanted to do. And he wanted to follow Christ, but his members warred. Nothing worked. And, then he goes on to tell what does work in the next chapter -- God!

We're actually agreeing quite a bit, but you're staring at the little picture with a microscope, and I'm looking up at the creator of the little-picture you're seeing. Left to ourselves, we're going to fall apart as fast as two pans of freshly made chocolate cake put together at the rounded tops. The only thing that keeps us together is the Lord. Bask in him, and the rest falls in place, even with warring members.

 

[MarcR]

Amen 1ofthem...I must admit I have to be very careful now in what I post...A few times I have posted what I believed the Holy Spirit has shown me only for someone to come along and rip it apart and tell me that what I have posted is wrong...I want to post what I have learnt, and I really do appreciate guidance to correct me if need be, only few will correct in a gentle manner, that`s what makes all the difference to me, someone who is loving in their ways with a gentle spirit, not a harsh cold reply which can often lead to babes or imature in the Lord to never post again, thank you for your reply, the Holy Spirit will always give me eyes to see and ears to hear...xox...

You certainly do NOT need to be careful what you post! You post what is on your heart. If you get nasty responses they should be ignored. Those are not your problem or your responsibility.


You have a sweetness of spirit that reminds the rest of us of what the Lord wants from us.
Those who get nasty are those who don't want to be reminded.

 

[Depleted]

Thank you Rosemary!

Right in the middle of a verbal war you post something gentle and uplifting.

You posted earlier that you have only been walking with the Lord for a little more than 2 months; but IMO you are showing more christian maturity than many who claim to have been saved for many years.

You are a blessing to the forum and I hope others recognize it as I do.

 

[Depleted]

I believe that you are correct. I believe that the criteria is that God has foreknowledge of who is predisposed to accept Jesus. That is the only way "you have not chosen Me but I have chosen you"; and "whosoever will may come" can be simultaneously true.

I remain an optimist. I think the criteria was "the foolish." It's the only way I fit.

 

[Depleted]

yep I believe God not chose on random, for example Paul, he love to do the truth, in order to do the truth, he kill Stephen, he love to do the truth in wrong way, than God chosen him to do the truth in correct way.

the thief on the cross love to do the truth, but fail, why I believe the thief love to do the truth?
because he said, we deserve punishment, but Not Him

the thief defend the truth, though he fail to do it. Even Paul after accepted Jesus fail to do the truth and he admitted

he do what he hate, he love to do the truth but he fail, what happen to us, we not more than Paul, yes we love to do the truth but we do what we hate.

And good examples of who the foolish are. Saul was foolish enough to think it was his duty to kill believers in Christ.

The thief on the cross? Who gets put on a cross for stealing? Restitution was big back then. We certainly don't usually go around killing thieves today. Exactly how foolish do you have to be to take stealing all the way to the penalty of a torturous death?

And yet, Jesus saved them both. Who can get why he chose either beyond he did say he'd take the foolish to confound the wise?

He always has. Gideon was hiding in a thresher cove. David was a kid who thought he could kill lions and giants with a sling. Moses was hiding in the wilderness for forty years fearful his adopted dad, the Pharaoh, would find out he killed a soldier. These too were foolish people, until the Lord changed them.

We have good company.

 

[IamWhoIam]

You have it exactly right! Also you do us a service to remind us of the rightness of it. It is not that most of us don't know (most of us do); it is that we often get ahead of the Lord and fall on our faces.

do you believe faith is gift from God of not your own doing but God placed faith in you, your faith?

 

[MarcR]

Just read through the thread, after answering Marc's query!

No wonder I turned Reformed! The alternative, at least as presented here by many, makes no sense, and is totally human centred, instead of God centred!

As far as Calvin, never read him, never met him, although I do have a copy in English of his Institutes on my Kindle which I got for free, which I have not read. I'm thinking I will read the French version instead, for a little challenge and review. Some day!

In the meantime, I just keep reading my Bible and studying it faithfully. I pray and seek God daily. And over and over, the sovereignty of God is vital.

Then, there is the cross, so rejected by some calling themselves saved on this thread! The cross, as it represents not just the death of Jesus, but our sin, is essential!

"And even though you were dead in your transgressions and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he nevertheless made you alive with him, having forgiven all your transgressions. 14 He has destroyed what was against us, a certificate of indebtedness expressed in decrees opposed to us. He has taken it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 Disarming the rulers and authorities, he has made a public disgrace of them, triumphing over them by the cross." Col. 2:13-15 NET

Notice how IT - our sin - our debt - is nailed to the cross? Hmm, some people are short on knowing and understanding redemption in this forum, it sure seems to me!

I favor the two major pre-reformation reformers. Jan Huss and Meno Simons.

Calvin impaled the heads of those who disagreed with him on his picket fence. This is hardly what Jesus had in mind when he told us to love our enemies. Luther persecuted the Jewish people; which is totally contrary to Hos chapter 2 and Jeremiah chapter 34. I prefer to learn from those whose lives portray a lifestyle of obedience.

 

[MarcR]

Whose faith did the old testament saints have?

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

I am persuaded that the OT saints were saved the same way we are (by the faith they were given), but with less information.

 

[davida]

Why then, does God create those who He will not draw to Him (if we have no choice)?

 

[Depleted]

what would be the faith of Jesus? what does this involve?

John 5:19 [FONT=&quot]So Jesus said to them, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.[/FONT]

 

[IamWhoIam]

Jesus did not give His disciples the gift of faith, that needed to be mustered up by the disciple, all throughout the four gospels these gentlemen had little faith, yet became such believers that their faith superseded that of the muster seed.

 

[Magenta]

Why then, does God create those who He will not draw to Him (if we have no choice)?

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." John 12:32

 

[1ofthem]

Ok, I just don’t get it folks…Don’t WE have to believe in order to be saved? And I’m saying don’t WE have to believe not JESUS cause we know that Jesus already believes…

In order to do so, seems to me that would take just a little faith from us, right? If we say God gives us all faith to believe then aren’t we saying that he is also responsible for unbelief in some people because he didn’t give them faith? We know Jesus won’t deny himself even when we are faithless, he is still faithful. But seriously, don’t we have to take that first step, to believe and then depend upon him to increase our faith?

So I mean really, don’t we have to have faith as small as a mustard seed to begin with… just like the guy who was asking for Jesus to heal his son. He said Lord I believe help my unbelief…In my opinion, he had to have a small amount of faith to say Lord I believe and ask Jesus to increase his belief. Just my thoughts here, but I don’t think it would have worked if he said Lord I don’t believe at all…

Mark 9:23-24
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. [SUP]24[/SUP]And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

 

[IamWhoIam]

John 5:19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

Thats a good quote and is exactly what the faith of Jesus is, in that Jesus doesn't go by faith but what He sees the father do and done likewise.

 

[Depleted]

Why then, does God create those who He will not draw to Him (if we have no choice)?

We do have a choice. We chose to stay in the darkness to hide our sins.

As for why does God create those he will not draw to him?

Well? The people at Babel were dispersed across the globe.

Pharaoh unwillingly let God's people go.

Baalaam didn't fair well, but served his purpose.

The people that should have been slaughtered in the Promise Lands are still warring against Israel.

King Saul died after toughening up David.

Nineveh and Edom are gone. (Nineveh was saved at one time, but that went south eventually.)

Pontius Pilate and Herod served their purposes.

Nero certainly served his purpose.

Pope Leo X served his purpose, as did Charles V.

No Hitler and we would have never heard of the Ten Booms.

This is God we're talking about. Not like something skipped his notice and he didn't use it. Yesterday marked the 15th anniversary of the falling of the Trade Towers. That served God's purposes too -- some for the good of his people, and some for the bad of all others. Just because we don't always know how God is working it out doesn't mean God's not working it out just right. Downright perfectly.

 

[Depleted]

Jesus did not give His disciples the gift of faith, that needed to be mustered up by the disciple, all throughout the four gospels these gentlemen had little faith, yet became such believers that their faith superseded that of the muster seed.

Read the Gospel of John as if you were there. I read Jesus's words and see him in action and think of the disciples, "Are you nuts? Why are you following some guy who just told you to eat his body and drink his blood?" Would you follow that guy now? It's. Just. Gross!

And yet, what other choice is there? He has the words of life? Yeah. That's not logical. The Lord gave me that. He gave those disciples that. He gives us faith.

 

[Depleted]

Ok, I just don’t get it folks…Don’t WE have to believe in order to be saved? And I’m saying don’t WE have to believe not JESUS cause we know that Jesus already believes…

In order to do so, seems to me that would take just a little faith from us, right? If we say God gives us all faith to believe then aren’t we saying that he is also responsible for unbelief in some people because he didn’t give them faith? We know Jesus won’t deny himself even when we are faithless, he is still faithful. But seriously, don’t we have to take that first step, to believe and then depend upon him to increase our faith?

So I mean really, don’t we have to have faith as small as a mustard seed to begin with… just like the guy who was asking for Jesus to heal his son. He said Lord I believe help my unbelief…In my opinion, he had to have a small amount of faith to say Lord I believe and ask Jesus to increase his belief. Just my thoughts here, but I don’t think it would have worked if he said Lord I don’t believe at all…

Mark 9:23-24
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. [SUP]24[/SUP]And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Really asking?

Or out to argue?

 

[Depleted]

Thats a good quote and is exactly what the faith of Jesus is, in that Jesus doesn't go by faith but what He sees the father do and done likewise.

What's the difference? Isn't that what faith is?