Why… we are not… and will not… go through the Tribulation.

[GaryA]

Revelation 12:6 and 12:14 are referring to the same 'event'.

 

[Aslanfriend]

Every time this subject comes up and someone says we need to be major doomsday preppers, I'm always left with the question: Where in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt hurry and stockpile your barns or houses with dry goods as much as possible to survive the not being able to buy/sell thing?"....And "If thou doesn't, be prepared for you and your family to die a slow painful death of starvation." Where?

 

[iamsoandso]

Greetings,

First part of the Tribulation (satan/antichrist not yet here - Rev 13:1-10, "And I...saw a beast rise up..." ):

Revelation 12:6
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days [42 months - Rev 13:5]. KJV

Second part of the Tribulation (satan/antichrist is here - Rev 13:11-18, "and I beheld another beast..."):

Revelation 12:14
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time [??? months, presumably 5 months - Rev 9:5 & 10], from the face of the serpent. KJV

These are direct acts of God, and satan and his minions are powerless to harm these two groups of Christians. However, if we continued Rev 12:14 above, and follow it down a couple more verses, we see that satan then goes away and attacks other Christians.

Who is being referred to as "they" in verse 9 if not the devils minions? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24.htm

 

[Truthnightmare]

Who is being referred to as "they" in verse 9 if not the devils minions? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24.htm

The “they” are humans in verse nine.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

This is speaking of the Elect being delivered up to the antichrist for conversion, and also that they (the Elect) will be betrayed (turned-in) by their own family and friends to the antichrist for conversion. These family members mean well when they cause the Elect to be identified and seized for conversion by the antichrist and his minions, but they do err:

Mark 13:11-13
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (KJV)

 

[GaryA]

Every time this subject comes up and someone says we need to be major doomsday preppers, I'm always left with the question: Where in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt hurry and stockpile your barns or houses with dry goods as much as possible to survive the not being able to buy/sell thing?"....And "If thou doesn't, be prepared for you and your family to die a slow painful death of starvation." Where?

I believe that Christians will not have to be concerned about "taking the mark" as much as "not worshipping the beast" - because, the way I read it - they are going to kill all those who will not worship the beast and then force the mark on those who are left because they were willing to worship the beast.

 

[GaryA]

Every time this subject comes up and someone says we need to be major doomsday preppers, I'm always left with the question: Where in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt hurry and stockpile your barns or houses with dry goods as much as possible to survive the not being able to buy/sell thing?"....And "If thou doesn't, be prepared for you and your family to die a slow painful death of starvation." Where?

I think that people are preppers today - not so much because of the 'buy/sell thing' - but, rather - because of what is expected between now and then...

 

[iamsoandso]

I believe that Christians will not have to be concerned about "taking the mark" as much as "not worshipping the beast" - because, the way I read it - they are going to kill all those who will not worship the beast and then force the mark on those who are left because they were willing to worship the beast.

Yes when they sat the nation back up that had received the wound by the sword and worshiped it as if it were of God they were doomed...

 

[ewq1938]

Every time this subject comes up and someone says we need to be major doomsday preppers, I'm always left with the question: Where in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt hurry and stockpile your barns or houses with dry goods as much as possible to survive the not being able to buy/sell thing?"....And "If thou doesn't, be prepared for you and your family to die a slow painful death of starvation." Where?

The parable of the ten virgins. The wise made sure to have enough oil, while the foolish did not and had none and no light in their lamps and missed the bridegroom. Only the wise will stock up to have what they need. Instead of oil let's use food and supplies for daily life. The 5 wise ones would have enough to survive, but the 5 foolish would not.

Noah and the Ark is about preparing for a difficult time. Without stocking the Ark ahead of time, much suffering and death would have occured on the boat during the flood. YOU have to supply and fill your own Ark like Noah did or else be like the 5 foolish virgins and not have enough.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Every time this subject comes up and someone says we need to be major doomsday preppers, I'm always left with the question: Where in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt hurry and stockpile your barns or houses with dry goods as much as possible to survive the not being able to buy/sell thing?"....And "If thou doesn't, be prepared for you and your family to die a slow painful death of starvation." Where?

In the Bible, is there anywhere where trouble was coming and a man of God prepped for it?

 

[iamsoandso]

In the Bible, is there anywhere where trouble was coming and a man of God prepped for it?

Start at Genesis 1:1 and go from there,,,,Adam was told to tend the earth/garden,,then Noah built an Ark and the animals and the 8 went in to replenish the earth,,,then go to Genesis 41 where Joseph explains the 7 years of good and 7 years of bad,,,,,work your way all the way across to the Revelation. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/41.htm

 

[Truthnightmare]

Start at Genesis 1:1 and go from there,,,,Adam was told to tend the earth/garden,,then Noah built an Ark and the animals and the 8 went in to replenish the earth,,,then go to Genesis 41 where Joseph explains the 7 years of good and 7 years of bad,,,,,work your way all the way across to the Revelation. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/41.htm

Cool, so Noah was a prepper.

 

[iamsoandso]

Cool, so Noah was a prepper.

Our Lord Jesus even told you that if those days were not cut short all flesh would perish and so for the elects sake they were...

 

[Truthnightmare]

Our Lord Jesus even told you that if those days were not cut short all flesh would perish and so for the elects sake they were...

I agree.

 

[iamsoandso]

I agree.

And the ultimate of all those who foresaw to prepare for the end,,, the first born of all creation was your Savior Jesus Christ https://biblehub.com/interlinear/colossians/1-15.htm

 

[DJT_47]

What about all of the things that happen 'Immediately after the tribulation of those days'...? (and after that)

Matthew 24:29-31 / Mark 13:24-27 / Luke 21:25-27

Are you saying that all of it has already occurred?

Only Matt 24 uses the words "end of the world" or age and somewhat seems to infer both the destruction of the temple and the end of the world/age are in the same time frame or a continuation of the same event. Neither Mark nor Luke read this way nor state or infer this as the case.

And in terms of the great tribulation itself, read the history of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and you will clearly see this to be that event described, and not some other futuristic event that has not yet occurred. Many good articles can be found on line. Also, pay close attention to how Jesus responds in the various texts and to whom his words are addressed such as in his use of the word "you". Jesus response as recorded appears to also weave in and out of the two events (destruction of the temple and events of his second coming). And only in Matt are the words "immediately after" used.

Matthew 24:3

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mark 13:4

4Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Luke 21:7

7And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

The thing is that a good majority of 'Christians' are just like the Pharisees and Sadducees.They rather serve themselves than build a temple that can pass through the flames like the three men in Daniel.
When referencing King Nebuchadnezzar to the image of the beast,why was he the head?Cause he was the head of his church.He placed himself in the high place.He thought himself as a god and wanted people to worship him.

This honestly depresses me.I entertain sin.We are like the money changers and the people who would go and buy their things.
Because I place things in the temple that should not be there.If God were to come passover with fire now,my temple would burn up to rubble.People like me will be in the great tribulation.

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

 

[GaryA]

Only Matt 24 uses the words "end of the world" or age and somewhat seems to infer both the destruction of the temple and the end of the world/age are in the same time frame or a continuation of the same event. Neither Mark nor Luke read this way nor state or infer this as the case.

To obtain the best "picture" of the Olivet Discourse, all three accounts need to be examined together.

I made this chart/table to make it easy to do just exactly that:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Olivet_Discourse.html

Please look at it and tell me if it makes sense to you.

Also be sure to look at the 'Chronological Order' chart/table below the main one.

And in terms of the great tribulation itself, read the history of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and you will clearly see this to be that event described, and not some other futuristic event that has not yet occurred.

I clearly see a whole spectrum of 'events' over a span of ~2000 years - and not some collection of 'events' in a short period of time - past or future.

The 'great tribulation' that Jesus spoke of has a 'beginning' and an 'ending'. I clearly see the 'beginning' - I do not see the 'ending'. Therefore, let me ask again...

What about all of the things that happen 'Immediately after the tribulation of those days'...? (and after that)

Matthew 24:29-31 / Mark 13:24-27 / Luke 21:25-27

Are you saying that all of it has already occurred?

For the 'great tribulation' that Jesus spoke of to have come-and-gone circa 70 A.D., both the 'beginning' and 'ending' - and, all-in-between - would have to have occurred circa 70 A.D.

In our history - compared to scripture - I only see the 'beginning' of the 'great tribulation'.

So - when did those 'Immediately after the tribulation of those days' things occur?

Because, if they did not occur circa 70 A.D., then - the 'great tribulation' started circa 70 A.D. and has not reached its end yet.

I have no doubt whatsoever that it did indeed start circa 70 A.D. - that is exceedingly clear in scripture.

That is why I say that we are in it now - and that - it will end at some point in our future.

Jesus response as recorded appears to also weave in and out of the two events (destruction of the temple and events of his second coming).

Yes - the time frame does jump around a bit; however, it is not a back-and-forth between the two events you mention here. The 'general' time frame moves forward from the time of the Olivet Discourse until the Second Coming of Christ. The events of circa 70 A.D. are included/mentioned.

(Again - take a look at both the main chart/table and the 'Chronological Order' chart/table on the web page linked to above.)

And only in Matt are the words "immediately after" used.

That does not change anything - all three accounts have to be taken together.

 

[GaryA]

If only - people would let go of the error they were taught - and, understand that the 'tribulation' of the Church throughout history IS the 'great tribulation' that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:21.

People like to use the words 'Great Tribulation' to describe what they think is a [short] 7-year End Times Scenario. However, there really is no such thing in the Bible. Jesus said that there shall be 'great tribulation' - He did not say that there would be a 'Great Tribulation' [period]. Everyone needs to understand this.

The Bible tells us exactly - in relative 'event' terms - when the 'great tribulation' (that Jesus spoke of) starts - and, when it ends.

History has shown us with certainty that the 'starting' mark-in-time was circa 70 A.D. - but, has yet to show us the 'ending' mark-in-time.

There is no 7-year 'prophetic' End Times period.

That idea comes from severely misinterpreted scripture.

The 'great tribulation' that Jesus referred to has already started - we are in it now.

The 'great tribulation' that Jesus referred to includes the Dark Ages and all of the wars and other human 'troubles' that have occurred over the past ~2000 years.

It will end at some point in the future - when the Two Witnesses "show up on the scene" to begin their prophecy/testimony.

Folks - you have to look at it from God's time frame.

The time span of the prophecy of both Revelation and the Olivet Discourse is a long one and not a short one.

 

[GaryA]

No. I didn't say that at all. Hasn't yet happened, but the tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24 did

When - precisely - did it end?

 

[GaryA]

The Great Tribulation is in Jeremiah 30 called "the time of Jacob's trouble"

The 'time of Jacob's trouble' is Armageddon and not the 'Great Tribulation'.

Jacob's trouble is the trouble that will come upon the nations for the way they have treated the Jews

Jacob's trouble is the trouble that will come from the nations upon Israel.