Why are both Jesus and lucifer referred to as the morning star,

[de-emerald]

but yes, there is:

..every beast after its kind, all cattle after their kind, every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort. And they went into the ark to Noah, two by two, of all flesh in which is the breath of life. ​

(Genesis 7:14-15)​

​

And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. ​

(Genesis 7:21-22)​

​

All have the same breath​

(Ecclesiastes 3:19)​

This is why there is indication that animals have a soul, that God did indeed breath life into the animals and all living bodies. perhaps this is the same for the stars. because they have a natural body.

What i ment was the bible doesnt actually say God breathed life into the animals like he did with adam and eve, and it doesnt mention That God has breathed life into the stars, but jesus mentions the stars as having a natural body just like the animals do and humans and then Jesus says where there is a natural body there is a spiritual body.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Now does the Bible say that Lucifer actually took a third of the angels, or did we make assumptions. Is it possible that the dragon is a legitimate heavenly body, and not Lucifer? Is it possible that the stars swept at Earth is a meteor shower of epic proportions. When I read Revelations in the light of this ancient story, it sure does add perspective. Read Revelations 6, large earthquake, islands moved out of place, stars falling like figs, the sky rolls back like a scroll (atmosphere being tugged by gravitational pull of a large flyby heavenly body), rulers, generals hiding themselves in the military bases built into the sides of the mountains. This is what starts the tribulation. This is the reason Vatican built the worlds largest infrared telescope and nicknamed it the Lucifer lens. Then when questioned, declared it’s because they knew what was coming.

It’s just a different perspective.

Your perspective is legit. The dragon is indeed Lucifer and he is also a legitimate heavenly body floating in the deep. The deep is the empty place we call outer space. The great tribulation is coming. There are many UFO's sightings being reported nowadays and the Vatican knew about all this. Maybe the fallen angels from space are coming to Earth ahead of their master.


Rev 12;3-4

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth

Rev 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Leviathan in the Deep

Gen 1:2

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Job 40:1

Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?

Job 40:31-32

He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

 

[Yahshua]

yep the translation i posted was from the niv, your quite right its worded differently in the kjv what youve just posted, does that mean the niv is incorrect ?.

In certain areas of scripture, yes, the NIV is very incorrect. The weakness of modern translations is, in their attempt to simplify the language (innocently enough) they absorbed words and phrases that weren't in the original Hebrew & Greek copies; words and phrases that were added to the text by English scribes in their best attempt to "interpret and explain" the Hebrew concepts being conveyed.

I feel the original 1611 KVJ (not the new KJV) is a better translation because it shows these additions in italics. making it easier to read the original translated text...and many times the meaning of a passage can change when these additions are removed. It was demanded that these additions were italicized by protestants who were adamant about not adding to the Almighty's word potentially changing it.

For example...

Colossians 2:16-17 Original KJV
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


The "is" in verse 17 is italicized in the original KJV. This means there wasn't an equivalent Greek word there to be translated but the word was added by English scribes anyhow. This one word has led to later translations like NIV going even further.


Colossians 2:16-17 NIV
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.


This one small addition has now grown into a doctrine completely divorced from Paul's original point.


Incorrect message: No one should judge the believer to do any of those things because the truth of all of it is Christ.

Paul's original point: Only the "body of Christ" is to judge the believer in what he eats, drinks, and follows (not those pagans who were judging and persecuting Gentiles who had converted to the faith).

...even the tense of verse 17 has been changed to support the new doctrine...


KJV: ...Which are [present tense] a shadow of things to come [future tense]
NIV: ...These are [present tense] a shadow of the things that were to come [past tense]


Colossians 2:16-17 [properly rendered modern translation when "is" is removed]
16 Therefore, do not let anyone judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days - which are a shadow of things still to come in the future - except fellow believers (not pagans).


"Let no one judge you in this new faith you're practicing except fellow believers. These practices are a shadow of good things still to come." - Paul

 

[John146]

yep the translation i posted was from the niv, your quite right its worded differently in the kjv what youve just posted, does that mean the niv is incorrect ?.

NIV Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

Yes, the niv is incorrect here and many other places.

 

[MattforJesus]

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Lucifer was created with an innocent nature so he was considered the morning star but he was created with a choice and when he fell then he was not the morning star.

Maybe because Lucifer was head of the angels he was considered the morning star and could of kept any of them from rebelling but he led a rebellion and some angels followed him.

It would of never entered Adam and Eve's mind to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil unless an outside source tempted them so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she said straight away that they could not eat of the forbidden tree for that is all she could know and think.

So Satan tempted her with an alternate reality that they would be like gods an exalted position from their current position and possibly God could not go against them in their exalted state then Eve ate of the tree and sinned then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she was not hurt and did not die and he ate of the fruit and sinned.

So it could be that only Lucifer had a choice and the rest of the angels did not have a choice and maybe all they could know and think was allegiance to God and then Lucifer made the choice to rebel and gave then angels an alternate reality like he gave Eve that they would be exalted which caused some of the angels to rebel.

It could be no angel or human had a choice but Lucifer and he caused the angels to see an alternate reality to the angels and caused some to rebel and caused Adam and Eve to see an alternate reality that caused them to rebel.

It could of been that if Lucifer never wanted to rebel then there would be no rebellion of any angel for they would not be able to rebel on their own for they would not be able to think about doing it, and then there would be no rebellion of Adam and Eve.

Maybe if Lucifer never rebelled then God would of not created humans.

 

[AandW]

Isaiah 14:12 KJV

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!




No mention of morning star in Isaiah in KJV. Lucifer is the falling star but Jesus is the bright morning star.

Had the KJV used the Tanakh for its Hebrew, it would read:
12 How have you fallen from heaven, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations.
באֵ֛יךְ נָפַ֥לְתָּ מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם הֵילֵ֣ל בֶּן־שָּׁ֑חַר נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ לָאָ֔רֶץ חוֹלֵ֖שׁ עַל־גּוֹיִֽם:

 

[justahumanbeing]

Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

This above passage says lucifer is the morning star

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star” (Revelation 22:16).

This above passage says Jesus is the morning star

Another couple of questions i have for this thread is are the stars in the sky at night also angels and is Jesus a star in the sky at night the heavens.


4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.


There seems to be indication above that the fallen angels of this world where stars in the sky at night. but theres also something else going on with this scripture,

Who is the woman who was about to give birth ?

Last question and is our sun an angel of some sort, because our sun is a star also.

Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Regarding the question about the morning star, It could be just symbolic reference as some people suggested in this thread. And stars are not to be confused with beings or people. God alone is to be worshiped. Jesus is the Son of God, so we worship Him. He is our Saviour.

It's given in the Old Testament that we are to worship God alone.

The woman in the book of Revelation can be interpreted as the Church/Israel/God's people. I'm not making this up, this is according to Christian theology. And in the Bible, it is written in the books of Prophecy that a redeemer will be born in Israel. This passage talks about Jesus. Jesus is the child. The dragon is understood to be Satan. The woman is interpreted to be The Church, Virgin daughter Israel, according to some theologians, Mary, the mother of Jesus. And of course, there is mention of Michael the archangel in this passage as well.

What the passage deals with is Satan's war with Jesus and how Jesus defeated Satan and conquered all sin on the cross. That's why Satan could not devour the Child. Because Jesus is incorruptible by sin. As for the flight of the woman from the dragon, it could be interpreted as the flight of the people of God from Satan and God keeping His people protected from the clutches of the Dragon for the thousand or so years as mentioned in the passage. That is the theological interpretation of this passage.

 

[Huckleberry]

I think it is interesting just how many interpretations there are. What is the point of Scripture if nobody understands it? How can you teach it accurately? My interpretation is so far removed from what is common or accepted.

Let’s say you only have one thousand words to describe what you see. You have to describe something so weird and mind blowing but the diction just hasn’t been invented yet. Everything has to be figurative because what you are describing can only be illustrated in the terms that are common.

Our technology today would appear devine four thousand years ago. Even what has been translated was interpreted according to assumptions over a thousand years ago. Today knowledge has been increased. The language has developed at the rate of our technology. The question: What did Moses, Isaiah, Jesus, John “see”, as they tried to record it for people to understand?

For instance, if you saw a messenger (angel) descending in a ball of light from the heavens (star) we would probably say it was an extra-terrestrial (above earth) encounter. They said the same thing. Heavenly, above earth literally means the same thing as extra-terrestrial.

There is a story written down about a dying star Nibiru, that appears red on an orbit that circles our sun. It drags meteors and space debris behind it. Now does the Bible say that Lucifer actually took a third of the angels, or did we make assumptions. Is it possible that the dragon is a legitimate heavenly body, and not Lucifer? Is it possible that the stars swept at Earth is a meteor shower of epic proportions. When I read Revelations in the light of this ancient story, it sure does add perspective. Read Revelations 6, large earthquake, islands moved out of place, stars falling like figs, the sky rolls back like a scroll (atmosphere being tugged by gravitational pull of a large flyby heavenly body), rulers, generals hiding themselves in the military bases built into the sides of the mountains. This is what starts the tribulation. This is the reason Vatican built the worlds largest infrared telescope and nicknamed it the Lucifer lens. Then when questioned, declared it’s because they knew what was coming.

It’s just a different perspective.

This "Nibiru" you speak of, aka "Phaeton", wasn't a star,
but a planet which existed between Mars and Jupiter.
Somehow it was destroyed, resulting in the asteroid belt,
the untold number of asteroids/comets/meteors orbiting the sun,
and the devastation of Mars, Mercury, Earth and our Moon.
The asteroids, comets, and meteors bombarded our
inner solar system, and the evidence is overwhelming.
The Earth's crust was cracked up like an eggshell,
and its canopy of water disintegrated and fell over a 40 day period.
I.e., it's what caused the Great Flood.
I'm not saying the destroyed planet was the
dwelling place of the sons of God mentioned
in Genesis 6, but I'm not not saying that either.

 

[de-emerald]

Stars are used as a metaphor or symbol usually referring to angels in scripture. That doesn't mean actual stars are angels. In Genesis it says 'He made the stars' - not talking about angelic beings.

“As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. (Revelation 1:20).
Here we see a quote diesctly from The lords mouth saying the stars are angels, which completely puts your interpretation to question.

“He counts the number of the stars; He gives names to all of them. (Psalm 147:4)
Has to be a reason for every star being given a name.
Again this would hold your interpretation to question,that the stars are just symbols. normaly you give a living being a name. which would suggest they are angelic beings also.


“When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have ordained;” (Psalm 8:3)

Here again we see that theres something else going on with the stars, God has ordained the stars.
to ordain also means to do the lords work, to be given spiritual power, which again would question your belief that stars are just symbols.

Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.” (Matthew 2:2)

Here again we see more evidence of Jesus being a star in the heavens.

“And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven. (Deuteronomy 4:19)

Here we people worshiping the stars rather than God, perhaps the stars that went bad. have now become the other Gods.
The bible says do not worship or show any effection towards any other Gods ? (so who are those other Gods) perhaps theese stars that where being worshipped are the other Gods. Not like God, but theese stars started behaving like Gods. ? one of those stars being the anointed cherub and quite possibly lucifer, who quite possibly was a leader of the angels who are (the stars)

stars forever.

“Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. (Daniel 12:3)

who are the stars that lead people to righteousness in the above scripture for ever and ever ?

In Genesis it says 'He made the stars' - not talking about angelic beings.

“God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; the stars also. (Genesis 1:16)

I believe your quoting from this verse, am i correct ?. I would like to add my ten cence on this, i personaly think it would be narrow minded to believe the stars just give of light based upon all that ive just quoted.
People where killed for worshiping the stars and bowing down to them. but on the other hand the stars where known to bow down to God also.
(Genesis 37:9)
“Now he had still another dream, and related it to his brothers, and said, “Lo, I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.

here we the stars the bowing down to God i believe but not sure, so perhaps there is a deeper spiritual meaning going on with stars rather than the stars justs gust giving of light. or just being symbols etc.

 

[de-emerald]

Regarding the question about the morning star, It could be just symbolic reference as some people suggested in this thread. And stars are not to be confused with beings or people. God alone is to be worshiped. Jesus is the Son of God, so we worship Him. He is our Saviour.

It's given in the Old Testament that we are to worship God alone.

The woman in the book of Revelation can be interpreted as the Church/Israel/God's people. I'm not making this up, this is according to Christian theology. And in the Bible, it is written in the books of Prophecy that a redeemer will be born in Israel. This passage talks about Jesus. Jesus is the child. The dragon is understood to be Satan. The woman is interpreted to be The Church, Virgin daughter Israel, according to some theologians, Mary, the mother of Jesus. And of course, there is mention of Michael the archangel in this passage as well.

What the passage deals with is Satan's war with Jesus and how Jesus defeated Satan and conquered all sin on the cross. That's why Satan could not devour the Child. Because Jesus is incorruptible by sin. As for the flight of the woman from the dragon, it could be interpreted as the flight of the people of God from Satan and God keeping His people protected from the clutches of the Dragon for the thousand or so years as mentioned in the passage. That is the theological interpretation of this passage.

The saying God moves in mysterious ways is definately true here. there is some deeper meaning here to the stars. Jesus born a baby was quoted as having a star in the heavens.
Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.” (Matthew 2:2).

Is it possible that other people like the leaders of the twelve tribes of isreal our stars in the heavens or the twelves apostles, ?

 

[Hungry]

This "Nibiru" you speak of, aka "Phaeton", wasn't a star,
but a planet which existed between Mars and Jupiter.
Somehow it was destroyed, resulting in the asteroid belt,
the untold number of asteroids/comets/meteors orbiting the sun,
and the devastation of Mars, Mercury, Earth and our Moon.
The asteroids, comets, and meteors bombarded our
inner solar system, and the evidence is overwhelming.
The Earth's crust was cracked up like an eggshell,
and its canopy of water disintegrated and fell over a 40 day period.
I.e., it's what caused the Great Flood.
I'm not saying the destroyed planet was the
dwelling place of the sons of God mentioned
in Genesis 6, but I'm not not saying that either.

That’s not the same story I’m referring to. The one I am, is written by Sumerians. It’s the story of the Anunnaki who genetically manipulated their DNA to create a slave species (Adam) to mine gold. They come from one of the 3 planets that orbits the star that orbits our sun. As the story goes they use the gold to create some sort of atmospheric force field against solar radiation. What I find interesting is that modern scientists suggested that creating a similar dust with aluminum can help fortify our electromagnetic field. I was curious if that had anything to do with the chemtrails. There is suspicion about geoengineering but it may be preparing for end times. Anyways I find many similarities in their story about their overseers mating with the slaves (humans) like in Genesis 6. Anyways every time their planet/star returns it creates havoc for Earth. Depending on Earth’s proximity it can be mild or complete devastation.

I’m not saying this story is Biblical or accurate. I am saying that it can’t be dismissed entirely. There is congruency in some elements. It would explain how it appears civilizations reach a stage of technology then get wiped out unexplainably. It makes sense how the Earth seems old and new. I believe the Bible. I don’t think much of the Sumerian story is accurate but some of it sure answers some nagging questions. The characters don’t fit but the scenario seems likely. We are preparing for the end of this age. Then we rebuild. Then the next time it appears Earth is destroyed entirely. Enter: new heaven, new earth.

 

[justahumanbeing]

The saying God moves in mysterious ways is definately true here. there is some deeper meaning here to the stars. Jesus born a baby was quoted as having a star in the heavens.
Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.” (Matthew 2:2).

Is it possible that other people like the leaders of the twelve tribes of isreal our stars in the heavens or the twelves apostles, ?

I am not a big believer in astrology honestly. I was just trying to explain that people cannot become stars. Maybe, some people look to the stars to interpret the signs of times in the future and what not. Jesus' birth was foretold by prophets and a star is not to be confused with a person. It is of no significant importance to us and can and is often used by astrologers of today to deceive a person based on the day they were born and under what star they were born. This really happens.

You have to take into account the number of babies born. Two babies born on the same day, same hour, same second do not end up having the same lives. It defies logic and rationality. One baby ends up in the gutter while another enjoys a different life being born into a rich family. That's why I would never believe in the stars. Because they can deceive.

I believe in our Lord Jesus Christ and in His infinite mercy. That keeps me going in this world. Nothing else.