Why Calvinism is NOT biblical

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LW97 said:
How am I arminian?
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Anyone who is not Calvinist is AUTOMATICALLY Arminian in their book. It does not even matter if you never heard of Jacobus Arminius or the Five Points of the Remonstrants.

And there is no point telling Calvinists that they have "another" gospel. The brainwashing is total. You could liken it to cultic brainwashing.
 
shrume said:
The future for people who are saved is certain. The Christian new birth is permanent.

The future for people who are not saved is uncertain. They have up until their death to make a decision for Christ.
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So God does not know how they will end?
 
trofimus said:
The question is so simple that its hard to imagine how can your answer be both yes and no.

Its either certain or not. There is nothing between.
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I see the answer being simple.

It's yes and no.

Yes from God's perspective. Since He knows the end from the beginning.

And no from our perspective because whosoever calls out to Him shall be saved.
 
shrume said:
I do not believe either of those are true.

Prophecies come true because God makes them happen, not because He "lives outside of time" and knew they would.

God works within His creation.
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But we are not talking about prophecies, we are talking about general order of things.
 
Cee said:
I see the answer being simple.

It's yes and no.

Yes from God's perspective. Since He knows the end from the beginning.

And no from our perspective because whosoever calls out to Him shall be saved.
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Ok. But our perspective is limited, God's perspective is not, therefore His perspective is the complete one and the objectively true one.
 
trofimus said:
Ok. But our perspective is limited, God's perspective is not, therefore His perspective is the complete one and the objectively true one.
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Sure I agree, but He also allows us to make free choices. He knows the consequences of them. We do not. But what's incredible is that for those who love Him He also works it all out for good.
 
Cee said:
Sure I agree, but He also allows us to make free choices. He knows the consequences of them. We do not. But what's incredible is that for those who love Him He also works it all out for good.
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Are your choices certain?
 
trofimus said:
So your future is predestined.
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From His viewpoint, but that's not what predestination means. Predestination means I am destined to be conformed into the image of Christ. Eternal life is to know Him. As I know Him, I discover who I am like. The call of Christ is upward. He is drawing me up to lay ahold of what Christ already laid ahold of for me. Yes God knows my choices, but as evidenced by Adam & Eve we can disobey Him. And that unfortunately carries consequences because His ways are far greater than ours. But we can rejoice in knowing that He is at work behind the scenes causing all things to work out for good.
 
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Cee said:
From His viewpoint, but that's not what predestination means. Predestination means I am destined to be conformed into the image of Christ. Eternal life is to know Him. As I know Him, I discover who I am like. The call of Christ is upward. He is drawing me up to lay ahold of what Christ already laid ahold of for me. Yes God knows my choices, but as evidenced by Adam & Eve we can disobey Him. And that unfortunately carries consequences because His ways are far greater than ours. But we can rejoice in knowing that He is at work behind the scenes causing all things to work out for good.
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I do not know why the certainity of your faith is different than a certainity of anything else in your life and why its a different type of predestination for you.

Your birth was predestined, your death is predestined, your day tomorrow is predestined, also your salvation is predestined.
 
Proverbs 16:9 (AMP) A man’s mind plans his way [as he journeys through life], But the Lord directs his steps and establishes them.
 
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trofimus said:
I do not know why the certainity of your faith is different than a certainity of anything else in your life and why its a different type of predestination for you.

Your birth was predestined, your death is predestined, your day tomorrow is predestined, also your salvation is predestined.
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Not sure what you're saying about the certainty of my faith? I am certain that I am saved because whosoever shall call upon Him shall be saved. And I've called out to Him.

As far as predestination here's a Scripture about it:

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

Those God foreknew (He knows the end from the beginning). He predestined me to be conformed (transformed) into the image of His Son. So that He would have many brothers.

His predestination is that I would be a son of God. And that I would grow in knowledge of Him. This is the work of Holy Spirit. He is my Teacher. He trains me up in righteousness.
 
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trofimus said:
I do not know why the certainity of your faith is different than a certainity of anything else in your life and why its a different type of predestination for you.

Your birth was predestined, your death is predestined, your day tomorrow is predestined, also your salvation is predestined.
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Cee said:
From His viewpoint, but that's not what predestination means. Predestination means I am destined to be conformed into the image of Christ. Eternal life is to know Him. As I know Him, I discover who I am like. The call of Christ is upward. He is drawing me up to lay ahold of what Christ already laid ahold of for me. Yes God knows my choices, but as evidenced by Adam & Eve we can disobey Him. And that unfortunately carries consequences because His ways are far greater than ours. But we can rejoice in knowing that He is at work behind the scenes causing all things to work out for good.
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this and your other post make sense both from a biblical viewpoint and also satisfies an apparent contradiction in scripture

Calvinists seem to just throw away verses like john 3:16 and offer no solution for an apparent contradiction

God is not limited by time so He knows what will happen which is not the same thing as making it happen
 
the character of God is not in question

however the character of Calvin is in question

which is another little item conveniently overlooked in this, yet another deja vu, thread
 
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7seasrekeyed said:
the character of God is not in question

however the character of Calvin is in question

which is another little item conveniently overlooked in this, yet another deja vu, thread
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I'll be honest it's weird to me when people say Calvinism is Biblical. I don't know of any other teacher that is given such a carte blanche recommendation. I know many excellent teachers, but I rarely agree with them on everything. Where I disagree with Calvin is his handling of grace. I don't believe Scripture teaches us grace is irresistible.
 
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