Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?
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Here's where I'm at with it: I see it the same way as you do in that we have body, spirit, and soul.
Hebrews 4:12
The word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I also believe that the spirit does not die.
Why do you think that the spirit of man has no consciousness? Is there verses for this? The only ones that I can think of is in reqards to when Adam sinned we became spiritually dead....Which as far as I can tell, means the spirit still exists but is separated from God.
Here is what God says sin did to us:
Isaiah 59
1 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Hebrews 4:12
The word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I also believe that the spirit does not die.
Why do you think that the spirit of man has no consciousness? Is there verses for this? The only ones that I can think of is in reqards to when Adam sinned we became spiritually dead....Which as far as I can tell, means the spirit still exists but is separated from God.
Here is what God says sin did to us:
Isaiah 59
1 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Pardon me. I was not clear: the soul, when dead, ends the consciousness of man. Our spirit was given by God and is compatible with Him because it is of Him. It is “a man’s spirit” but only in stewardship. It did not originate with us. It came from God. Our soul was created to be compatible with creation, it is how we deal with the world. Our body manifests the rule of either the soul or the spirit (through His Spirit).
When man dies, the spirit returns to God who gave it. If the soul of the man was subject to the Spirit of God (having died to himself and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior) his soul will live forever with the Lord as well. He will be given a new body that is compatible with an eternal existence.
If the man was ruled by his soul (the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life) and was unredeemed, upon death his spirit returns to God but his soul will be destroyed in the lake of fire. When this man is destroyed he no longer has being.
When man dies, the spirit returns to God who gave it. If the soul of the man was subject to the Spirit of God (having died to himself and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior) his soul will live forever with the Lord as well. He will be given a new body that is compatible with an eternal existence.
If the man was ruled by his soul (the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life) and was unredeemed, upon death his spirit returns to God but his soul will be destroyed in the lake of fire. When this man is destroyed he no longer has being.
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So what happens at the second ressurrection since man is a tripart being? God gives back the spirit or man becomes an evil spirit who cannot die?
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2 KJV
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Ephesians 2:2 KJV
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Luke 12:45-48
But suppose that servant says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and he begins to beat the menservants and maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
47That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded.
Luke 12:57-59
And why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58Make every effort to reconcile with your adversary while you are on your way to the magistrate. Otherwise, he may drag you off to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and the officer may throw you into prison. 59I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the very last penny.”
Luke 16:19-31
Now there was a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in joyous splendor. 20And a beggar named Lazarus lay at his gate, covered with sores 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side And the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side.
24So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.’
25But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. 26And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’
27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’
29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’
30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
This last one especially has a lot to say. I know that you don't trust any English translations, so I ask: What do these all say in the greek? You say to argue by our experiences and not scripture. Before I knew God I still had great experiences which I took as evidence that he loved me. Many Islamic people would say the same. So would Hindus, Buddists, Mormons, and Catholics. Yet, all of these people speak of different Gods. Christianity has one God, and if we just have a feeling in our heart, we have no God at all. Either Christ is true or he isn't, it doesn't matter how you feel or believe. When I was a young dude I liked to believe that I was Buzz Lightyear. Long story short, I'm not.
See, God is love. He loves so much that he hates seeing evil. Earlier this week someone did something wrong to my mother. I was ready to send them a very angry evil. So, how must God feel when he sees people murder, adulter, and destroy his creation? Jesus also sad that even calling someone else a fool is murder in God's sight. He said that lusting was adultery in God's sight. How many times have you been unjustly angry or lusted?
The issue isn't God, it's you. You have a low view of what true love is. It hurts, I know. However, I don't say that to just condemn you. I have to go to God every day to confess an evil heart. He doesn't just pardon, he cleanses of sin totally. Go to God, through Jesus Christ. Not some made up Jesus in your head, but the real Christ. Ask Him what the truth is, and search his word. If you want to do it in the Greek, then do it. We need truth, not fiction. Well, I'm praying for you.
But suppose that servant says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and he begins to beat the menservants and maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
47That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded.
Luke 12:57-59
And why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58Make every effort to reconcile with your adversary while you are on your way to the magistrate. Otherwise, he may drag you off to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and the officer may throw you into prison. 59I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the very last penny.”
Luke 16:19-31
Now there was a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in joyous splendor. 20And a beggar named Lazarus lay at his gate, covered with sores 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side And the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side.
24So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.’
25But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. 26And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’
27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’
29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’
30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
This last one especially has a lot to say. I know that you don't trust any English translations, so I ask: What do these all say in the greek? You say to argue by our experiences and not scripture. Before I knew God I still had great experiences which I took as evidence that he loved me. Many Islamic people would say the same. So would Hindus, Buddists, Mormons, and Catholics. Yet, all of these people speak of different Gods. Christianity has one God, and if we just have a feeling in our heart, we have no God at all. Either Christ is true or he isn't, it doesn't matter how you feel or believe. When I was a young dude I liked to believe that I was Buzz Lightyear. Long story short, I'm not.
See, God is love. He loves so much that he hates seeing evil. Earlier this week someone did something wrong to my mother. I was ready to send them a very angry evil. So, how must God feel when he sees people murder, adulter, and destroy his creation? Jesus also sad that even calling someone else a fool is murder in God's sight. He said that lusting was adultery in God's sight. How many times have you been unjustly angry or lusted?
The issue isn't God, it's you. You have a low view of what true love is. It hurts, I know. However, I don't say that to just condemn you. I have to go to God every day to confess an evil heart. He doesn't just pardon, he cleanses of sin totally. Go to God, through Jesus Christ. Not some made up Jesus in your head, but the real Christ. Ask Him what the truth is, and search his word. If you want to do it in the Greek, then do it. We need truth, not fiction. Well, I'm praying for you.
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What are you talking about? God gives us every reason to believe the Bible. It proves itself by many prophecies hundreds and thousands of years in advance. The whole books of Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, and Ezekial, with many others. But even then, that is not the Bible's largest argument. It's the Cross. If Christ was raised from the dead, then He is true and holy. If not, then we are fools. See, the Christian church radically grew in the first century, and what was the message: Christ was tortured and rose from the dead for sins. The early church focused their ministry in Jerusalem, where Jesus was killed and rose. If Jesus didn't rise and the bible isn't true, then why did Jews in Jerusalem believe?
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I figured I should add one more thing. I have issues with assurance sometimes. I don't doubt God, but I tend to wonder if I have been truly saved or not. Often, I have to go to God every day to get this issue figured out. Even so, I have found him faithful every moment, even in my doubts. While my issues in this area are evil, I know that he can cleanse me. And little by little, he does. I say this mostly to encourage you: Go to the one God who can cleanse you. Why should we just go to some God made up in our head? I don't want something fake, and hopefully you don't either. So, I just wanted to add that so that you wouldn't feel like I was just saying: "Well, you're just wrong and there is no hope for you. How do you ever think you could come to know God?" Lord willing, I'm going to get on my knees tonight in Christ's name, I invite you to join me. I don't know how He will respond, but even if He cuts me down then I know it is loving discipline. If you've been worshipping a God made up in your head, I did too. I was a false convert for 17 years. Even so, since He saved me, I wouldn't go back for anything. Sure, it's harder. The way can be discouraging sometimes. People tend to not like it when I follow Christ over something else. These things being true, I bow my knee with one hope. Christ says "Come to me." I hope that tonight He will take me into the secret places, the Holy of Holies of communion with the one true God. I hope He will do the same with you, even if for the first time.
In case you still aren't convinced (God just started moving on me and I feel there is more to be said): Even now I can hear the same words he said to Israel: "Comfort, comfort my people." If you saw with a proper vision how wickedly I have treated Him, how little I have loved Him, you would surely think it worthy for God to send me to an everlasting Hell. I certainly know it to be so. Instead, Christ bore that full brunt of eternity on my behalf. And yet, even I have hope of being drawn away in communion with Him tonight. I've messed up so much, but the one true God is so mighty to save. His hand is not shortened that it cannot redeem, only because he stretched out his arm to slay his only son in our place. So, call out to him. He isn't deaf, unlike some image we concoct in our heads. Now, I'm gonna go to my God and continue reading through Romans. If He is willing, then I hope to have the Spirit pour His own love into my heart. What a mercy, and what a God. Let us all press on to know, love, and serve the one true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.
In case you still aren't convinced (God just started moving on me and I feel there is more to be said): Even now I can hear the same words he said to Israel: "Comfort, comfort my people." If you saw with a proper vision how wickedly I have treated Him, how little I have loved Him, you would surely think it worthy for God to send me to an everlasting Hell. I certainly know it to be so. Instead, Christ bore that full brunt of eternity on my behalf. And yet, even I have hope of being drawn away in communion with Him tonight. I've messed up so much, but the one true God is so mighty to save. His hand is not shortened that it cannot redeem, only because he stretched out his arm to slay his only son in our place. So, call out to him. He isn't deaf, unlike some image we concoct in our heads. Now, I'm gonna go to my God and continue reading through Romans. If He is willing, then I hope to have the Spirit pour His own love into my heart. What a mercy, and what a God. Let us all press on to know, love, and serve the one true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.
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The devil (Satan) gets destroyed in the lake of fire.
Hebrews 2:14
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
1 Corinthians 15:26
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 20:14
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Hebrews 2:14
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
1 Corinthians 15:26
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Revelation 20:14
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
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Precious friend, Mark_L, thanks for sharing - I made your statement easier
to read with the above breaks in paragraphs. I will pray for you.
May God Help with your assurance:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of ETERNAL Life!
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
to read with the above breaks in paragraphs. I will pray for you.
May God Help with your assurance:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of ETERNAL Life!
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
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Hell isn't eternal; if it was then it would mean that sin will never fully be eradicated. Psalm 37:38 says
"But transgressors will be altogether destroyed;
The posterity of the wicked will be cut off."
Here it makes it clear that sinners and sin either them will be destroyed. If hell was eternal then sin would always exist, and we'd never be rid of it, but God ultimately wants sin to be destroyed.
"But transgressors will be altogether destroyed;
The posterity of the wicked will be cut off."
Here it makes it clear that sinners and sin either them will be destroyed. If hell was eternal then sin would always exist, and we'd never be rid of it, but God ultimately wants sin to be destroyed.
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The reason for so many erroneous interpretations of this, is because of expositors interpretation of the word "Destroyed." The three Greek words olethros, apoliea and apollumi, do not imply annihilation (extinction), but mean complete loss of well being, eternal ruination.
Think about all of the people who committed suicide. They did this with the belief that they would cease to exist and you're saying that God is going to give them their desire. All sin is against God and they will suffer eternal punishment, because that is what God has deemed.
You have explain the scripture which says that the smoke of their torment will ascend up forever and ever. And they that they shall have no rest day of night. One would have to exist in order to experience having no rest day or night.
There is so much scripture which points to eternal punishment that it should not even need to be debated.
Think about all of the people who committed suicide. They did this with the belief that they would cease to exist and you're saying that God is going to give them their desire. All sin is against God and they will suffer eternal punishment, because that is what God has deemed.
You have explain the scripture which says that the smoke of their torment will ascend up forever and ever. And they that they shall have no rest day of night. One would have to exist in order to experience having no rest day or night.
There is so much scripture which points to eternal punishment that it should not even need to be debated.
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In response to Jocund:
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).
684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Destruction in red is the word apoleia. Please take notice of what is highlighted in red above. The word does not imply annihilation, be complete loss of well being, eternal ruination.
It's easy to disagree to a post. But back up that disagreement with scripture, as I did above.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).
684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Destruction in red is the word apoleia. Please take notice of what is highlighted in red above. The word does not imply annihilation, be complete loss of well being, eternal ruination.
It's easy to disagree to a post. But back up that disagreement with scripture, as I did above.
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That does not imply eternal conscious torment. That's your addition to Matthew 7:14.
It's more likely to imply annihilation, destruction, and eternal ruin given the context.
684. apóleia
Strong's Concordance
Original Word: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apóleia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-o'-li-a)
Definition: destruction, loss
Usage: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
The wide gate does not lead to life, meaning that being alive forever in hell isn't a possibility. The only possiblity for life is through the narrow gate.
Simply put: The wide gate leads to destruction not life. The context absolutely suggests death for those who go through the wide gate. The meaning of destruction in Matthew 7:13 is definitely annihilation.
It's more likely to imply annihilation, destruction, and eternal ruin given the context.
684. apóleia
Strong's Concordance
apóleia: destruction, lossOriginal Word: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apóleia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-o'-li-a)
Definition: destruction, loss
Usage: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin.
Matthew 7:13-14(KJV)13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
The wide gate does not lead to life, meaning that being alive forever in hell isn't a possibility. The only possiblity for life is through the narrow gate.
Simply put: The wide gate leads to destruction not life. The context absolutely suggests death for those who go through the wide gate. The meaning of destruction in Matthew 7:13 is definitely annihilation.
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