Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?
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Salvation is part of the Second Coming of Christ package.
Hebrews 9:28
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Those who do not obey the gospel of Christ will not receive salvation.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
It holds true that those who do not obey (obeying is a conscious and deliberate decision) the gospel of Christ will perish prior to His return.
2 Peter 3:9 isn't saying that in order to receive salvation one needs to wait for Jesus to return to repent, rather that if one has not already repented prior to the return of Jesus then they will perish.
Hebrews 9:28
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Those who do not obey the gospel of Christ will not receive salvation.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
It holds true that those who do not obey (obeying is a conscious and deliberate decision) the gospel of Christ will perish prior to His return.
2 Peter 3:9 isn't saying that in order to receive salvation one needs to wait for Jesus to return to repent, rather that if one has not already repented prior to the return of Jesus then they will perish.
First of all, I am well aware that the meaning of the translated word "forever" does not always mean forever. The Greek word aion/aionios can mean 'a cycle of time, an age or eternal, i.e. never ending. Regarding your examples, such as mixing Jude with Ezekiel, this is not a good comparison.
"Sodom’s fiery judgment is ‘eternal’ (Jude 7),
The above is referring to the eternal judgment of the people of Sodom, after the death of the bodies, where they will spend eternity in the lake of fire
"until… God ‘will restore the fortunes of Sodom’ (Eze. 16:53-55)."
While this part in Ezekiel is referring to God restoring Sodom on the earth.
And secondly, in your examples you have shown something to be eternal and then restored in order to prove that punishment in the lake of fire is temporary, i.e. those who get tossed in are burned up. However, none of scriptures that we have presented to you have any such restorations or retractions. For example:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Your not going to find any other scripture that contradicts or retracts the word 'destruction' to non-destruction. And as I have pointed out to you many times, the Greek word 'apoleia' translated 'destruction' does not imply nonexistence/annihilation. It states this right in the definition of the word.
Regarding your attempt at cross-referencing scriptures, the context must be addressed first. What you are doing is the same thing that amillennists do to disprove the meaning of a literal thousand years by going to Psalm 50:10 and then applying the same meaning from there to Rev.20 when Satan is bound for a thousand years. The context reveals the meaning of the use of a word or the meaning of what is being conveyed.
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HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).
684 /apṓleia ("destruction") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being (Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).
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As you can see from the definition of the word apoleia above (in Red), it does not imply annihilation. Therefore, the apoleia/destruction that Jesus is referring to in the scripture is referring to eternal, never ending loss of well being in the lake of fire. It is the same with the following:
"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
It is the same with the verse above in that, you will not find a retraction or contradiction, stating that the eternal punishment isn't eternal, as in your examples. But what really cements in the meaning of never ending-conscious-punishment, is the fact that the same word 'aionios' translated as 'eternal' is used to describe the condition for both the wicked and the righteous. Therefore, whatever definition you apply to one has to mean the same for the other. Since we know in the verse above that eternal life for the righteous is conscious, never ending life in the kingdom, then aionios/eternal must mean conscious, never ending punishment for the wicked.
In short, you can't have aionios for the righteous mean never ending life and then have aionios for the wicked mean annihilation in the same verse. They have to retain the same meaning. If you interpret eternal as being temporary for the wicked, then eternal life for the righteous would also have to be temporary.
forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, no rest day of night, torment rising up forever and ever, are all supporting words which demonstrate unending punishment for the wicked.
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I have tried to get ewq1938 to understand that the translated word destruction does not mean annihilation or cessation of existence, but he/she pays no attention to scriptures and their supporting words, reasoning or logic, which demonstrate unending, conscious punishment for the wicked. Now, we are not contending for this because we desire to see the wicked punished, because we all deserve that same punishment. But we proclaim the truth of what God's word is saying in an attempt to get him/her and others to understand this truth.
It would be commendable on his/her part and well as with others, if they would receive the provided scriptures and instruction on this matter and just admit being wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. And we are not doing this to win so-to-speak, but to proclaim the truth.
Can you imagine, all of those who committed suicide did so in order to become nonexistent because of their troubles in life. If eternal punishment was cessation of existence, those people would be getting what they wanted in the first place, i.e. to be nonexistent.
It would be commendable on his/her part and well as with others, if they would receive the provided scriptures and instruction on this matter and just admit being wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. And we are not doing this to win so-to-speak, but to proclaim the truth.
Can you imagine, all of those who committed suicide did so in order to become nonexistent because of their troubles in life. If eternal punishment was cessation of existence, those people would be getting what they wanted in the first place, i.e. to be nonexistent.
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2 Peter 3 KJV (biblehub.com)
I think if you read from verse 1 you'll maybe see that this chapter in 2nd Peter is one of the strongest for reminding us of God's Elect for Salvation. "Beloved", and this being the 2nd letter written to them indicates this passage is not addressed to all people. And it is reminding the Elect of the second coming. So indeed, those to whom it is addressed are already saved.
adding this: I don't know why this post shows your remarks as the same post quoted twice. When I go to edit that away, your two quotes as they appear in print are not there to be edited. Just the one. Odd.
I think if you read from verse 1 you'll maybe see that this chapter in 2nd Peter is one of the strongest for reminding us of God's Elect for Salvation. "Beloved", and this being the 2nd letter written to them indicates this passage is not addressed to all people. And it is reminding the Elect of the second coming. So indeed, those to whom it is addressed are already saved.
adding this: I don't know why this post shows your remarks as the same post quoted twice. When I go to edit that away, your two quotes as they appear in print are not there to be edited. Just the one. Odd.
No parable uses literal Biblical people, Abraham, Moses and Lazarus. It is not a parable. Why would Jesus make up such a MONSTER story? It is quite descriptive and precise.
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
Luke 16:22-28 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
Luke 16:22-28 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
It is not a parable. Parables are specified in the Bible. The title says Lazarus and the rich man. Not the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. It is a vision not some kind of a story. Abraham and Moses are real and not in a parable. And the Bible is not silent. The dead in hell will be thrown to the lake of fire in the end so it is the final destination of the rich man and he will be tormented forever.
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Why would I be upset? If Jesus is wrong and there's no eternal Hell fire then I have nothing to worry about. Wish I could say the same for you.
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
Luke 16:22-28 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"
Luke 16:22-28 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'