-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I think he was speaking to jews who actively rejected him. They actively rejected Him then. They actively reject Him now. A few didn't reject Him then. A few don't reject Him now.
Hmmmm...I smell a trap!
You just threw up a giant strawman. I never said jews can't repent and bend the knee to the true King Jesus. Some do. I wish they all would.
But what did the leaders of the jews say when they were talking Pilot into having Jesus executed? Pilot was trying to find a way to let Jesus go, but the jews said that they would take the guilt of it on themselves and on their children. Then when He was getting crucified, Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Who was He talking about? Who didn't know what they were doing? The Roman soldiers didn't know anything. But the jewish leadership knew exactly what they were doing.
Neither are we responsible for the righteousness of Jesus. Yet God sees fit to see us Christians that way because He so chooses. That's not "fair" either.
Or maybe you should ask one of the descendants of Canaan about that. Canaanites serving as slaves of Shemites. Fair? Or what about this?:
Exodus 20:5-6: "You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me. 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
It is not for us to define "fair". God's ways are above ours.
You know how when you're debating something with a lefty type and they start calling you a racist? It pretty much means you've won, right? I means they've got nothing but name calling to stand up against your arguments. It's the same here.
Kayla,
I'll make a deal with you. I promise to read any book you choose on the subject of jews. I promise to read it with an open mind. I'll even pray to God for an open mind while reading it. In exchange, I'll assign a book to you. And you do the same thing. I'll even buy both books so you won't be out any money. Any book. Any movie or tv series or whatever. Anything you think might change my mind on this. Because I really don't care if I get proven right or wrong. My only goal is to seek truth. So don't just dismiss this challenge saying "Well if the Bible doesn't convince you, nothing will." Like I said, I used to adore the jews and thought I was loving God by loving the jews. I even looked into joining the IDF in order to help the jews. I believed in it with fervency. I've just come to the conclusion that I was wrong. It's not out of ignorance that I hold my opinions. But I'm also willing to reconsider as learn more. So tell me which book I need to read. If I've already read it, I'll even let you choose another one.
Hmmmm...I smell a trap!
You just threw up a giant strawman. I never said jews can't repent and bend the knee to the true King Jesus. Some do. I wish they all would.
But what did the leaders of the jews say when they were talking Pilot into having Jesus executed? Pilot was trying to find a way to let Jesus go, but the jews said that they would take the guilt of it on themselves and on their children. Then when He was getting crucified, Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Who was He talking about? Who didn't know what they were doing? The Roman soldiers didn't know anything. But the jewish leadership knew exactly what they were doing.
Neither are we responsible for the righteousness of Jesus. Yet God sees fit to see us Christians that way because He so chooses. That's not "fair" either.
Or maybe you should ask one of the descendants of Canaan about that. Canaanites serving as slaves of Shemites. Fair? Or what about this?:
Exodus 20:5-6: "You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me. 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
It is not for us to define "fair". God's ways are above ours.
You know how when you're debating something with a lefty type and they start calling you a racist? It pretty much means you've won, right? I means they've got nothing but name calling to stand up against your arguments. It's the same here.
Kayla,
I'll make a deal with you. I promise to read any book you choose on the subject of jews. I promise to read it with an open mind. I'll even pray to God for an open mind while reading it. In exchange, I'll assign a book to you. And you do the same thing. I'll even buy both books so you won't be out any money. Any book. Any movie or tv series or whatever. Anything you think might change my mind on this. Because I really don't care if I get proven right or wrong. My only goal is to seek truth. So don't just dismiss this challenge saying "Well if the Bible doesn't convince you, nothing will." Like I said, I used to adore the jews and thought I was loving God by loving the jews. I even looked into joining the IDF in order to help the jews. I believed in it with fervency. I've just come to the conclusion that I was wrong. It's not out of ignorance that I hold my opinions. But I'm also willing to reconsider as learn more. So tell me which book I need to read. If I've already read it, I'll even let you choose another one.
K
So do, some don't, just like every other race, and you and I one time. Your job is to pray for them.
Don't stick it out there if you don't want to be called on it.
Blinded for a time, pray, evanglize, same as every other sinner.
The Jewish leadship , yes perhaps they knew. I think they saw Jesus as a threat to their authority. Did they really know He was the Messiah? I'd have to read it again. That doesn't make ever Jew after them a Christkiller.
But we don't replace the Chosen Ones.
God doesn't hold us accountable for the sins of our ancestors. He holds us accountable for our wrongs.
Honestly I never read a book, other than the Bible to come to this conclusion. My parents raised me with respect for the Jews. I've done research, articles, that type of thing. No book really brought me here. I suppose you could watch The Hiding Place about Cori Ten Booms life. It's free on Youtube. But there is no one book I know where I think a light would turn on for you. I'm just wondering what changed your mind so far from where you began? I'm not saying every Jewish people is a wonderful, upstanding person. I realize that many are not saved. But I don't see them as different than any other person that needs Christ. So I'm at a loss as to what to tell you. I really am.
Don't stick it out there if you don't want to be called on it.
Blinded for a time, pray, evanglize, same as every other sinner.
The Jewish leadship , yes perhaps they knew. I think they saw Jesus as a threat to their authority. Did they really know He was the Messiah? I'd have to read it again. That doesn't make ever Jew after them a Christkiller.
But we don't replace the Chosen Ones.
God doesn't hold us accountable for the sins of our ancestors. He holds us accountable for our wrongs.
Honestly I never read a book, other than the Bible to come to this conclusion. My parents raised me with respect for the Jews. I've done research, articles, that type of thing. No book really brought me here. I suppose you could watch The Hiding Place about Cori Ten Booms life. It's free on Youtube. But there is no one book I know where I think a light would turn on for you. I'm just wondering what changed your mind so far from where you began? I'm not saying every Jewish people is a wonderful, upstanding person. I realize that many are not saved. But I don't see them as different than any other person that needs Christ. So I'm at a loss as to what to tell you. I really am.
Jewish people call Corrie Ten Boom and others like her that saved them from the nazis 'Righteous Gentiles'
There is no special reason to hate Jews. Some people didnt like them because they didnt fit in with their culture and the observed different laws and kept to their tradtions, though none of their customs and tradtions actually caused hardship for other people. It just made them different.
at the time nazi germany was very nationalistic. And racist. anybody that wasnt white or had blue eyes was was discriminated against. the whiteness of skin meant you were 'Aryan'
Today, does anybody even say they even belong to the aryan race? There is no such thing! it was a kind of myth they believed in from a mistranslated Indian word.
There is no special reason to hate Jews. Some people didnt like them because they didnt fit in with their culture and the observed different laws and kept to their tradtions, though none of their customs and tradtions actually caused hardship for other people. It just made them different.
at the time nazi germany was very nationalistic. And racist. anybody that wasnt white or had blue eyes was was discriminated against. the whiteness of skin meant you were 'Aryan'
Today, does anybody even say they even belong to the aryan race? There is no such thing! it was a kind of myth they believed in from a mistranslated Indian word.
-
1
- Show all
Kayla,
One thing I love about you is I just really get the sense that you're honest. I don't feel like you're putting on some showy, "holy" front to impress people. I do NOT get that same sense from many people that share your opinion on this matter. You've asked me what made me change my mind on this a couple times. I'll endeavor to write it out. It'll take me some time to organize my thoughts and get it into writing. And I'm in the middle of getting my house up for sale right now as well as starting a new job. So give me some time. I gonna have to bare my soul a little bit, so in exchange I'll trust you to actually try to see what I'm saying before just spontaneously disagreeing. If that's amenable to you, I'll dedicate some time to sharing.
In the meantime though, I think everyone should periodically ask themselves if they are more interested in hanging onto to some sort of doctrine or are we more interested in the pursuit of truth? I think we should always be on the lookout for areas where we might be wrong on something. And then we should be willing to change as more information comes to light. I think that was the great sin of the jewish leadership. They just stuck with their doctrine when it became plain to see that they were wrong. They needed to swallow their pride and say "Hey! We were wrong about stuff. Jesus is the Savior! We're gonna worship Him and everyone else should too!" But they didn't. They stuck with their original position, even when they pretty much knew they were wrong. They let pride completely get the best of them. And they're probably burning in hell right now because of it. I think we all need to be on guard against this Not just on the subject of jews - but just everything. How medicinal is it to a relationship when you or your spouse can just go up to the other and say "Baby, I was wrong. You were right. Let's move forward on this." Everyone wins. Nobody loses in such a situation. If I'm wrong, I want to know it! And I'll be the first to admit it.
The other quick note I'll share is that there are negative consequences for error. If an engineer makes a mistake in his calculations, then airplanes crash, buildings collapse, and ships sink. If societies make enough mistakes in their policies, laws, treaties, etc then those societies inevitably collapse. Error on this subject is not without consequence. From Hollywood, to Freud, to fractional reserve banking and more - error on this issue is leading to the collapse of western civilization.
One thing I love about you is I just really get the sense that you're honest. I don't feel like you're putting on some showy, "holy" front to impress people. I do NOT get that same sense from many people that share your opinion on this matter. You've asked me what made me change my mind on this a couple times. I'll endeavor to write it out. It'll take me some time to organize my thoughts and get it into writing. And I'm in the middle of getting my house up for sale right now as well as starting a new job. So give me some time. I gonna have to bare my soul a little bit, so in exchange I'll trust you to actually try to see what I'm saying before just spontaneously disagreeing. If that's amenable to you, I'll dedicate some time to sharing.
In the meantime though, I think everyone should periodically ask themselves if they are more interested in hanging onto to some sort of doctrine or are we more interested in the pursuit of truth? I think we should always be on the lookout for areas where we might be wrong on something. And then we should be willing to change as more information comes to light. I think that was the great sin of the jewish leadership. They just stuck with their doctrine when it became plain to see that they were wrong. They needed to swallow their pride and say "Hey! We were wrong about stuff. Jesus is the Savior! We're gonna worship Him and everyone else should too!" But they didn't. They stuck with their original position, even when they pretty much knew they were wrong. They let pride completely get the best of them. And they're probably burning in hell right now because of it. I think we all need to be on guard against this Not just on the subject of jews - but just everything. How medicinal is it to a relationship when you or your spouse can just go up to the other and say "Baby, I was wrong. You were right. Let's move forward on this." Everyone wins. Nobody loses in such a situation. If I'm wrong, I want to know it! And I'll be the first to admit it.
The other quick note I'll share is that there are negative consequences for error. If an engineer makes a mistake in his calculations, then airplanes crash, buildings collapse, and ships sink. If societies make enough mistakes in their policies, laws, treaties, etc then those societies inevitably collapse. Error on this subject is not without consequence. From Hollywood, to Freud, to fractional reserve banking and more - error on this issue is leading to the collapse of western civilization.
-
1
- Show all
K
Well thank you for that opinion of me. Honestly if I sat down and wrote my testimony I think you'd see why I am that way. I can change my opinion if I see good reason as to why what I believe is wrong. I'm heading away on vacation soon, so don't worry about the timeline. Just tag me when you get around to it. Congrats on the new job and hope your sale goes well. Definitely a sellers market right now. Blessings.