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A
Ariel82
Guest
the Bible speaks of two different laws: the Law of Sin and Death (written on stone, given by Moses)
and the Law of grace given by the shed blood of Jesus Christ which ushers people into the New covenant and blesses them with the Holy Spirit.
Satan loves to mix lies with truths to confuse those who do not pay enough attention to catch on to what God's Spirit revels in His written word.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Hebrews 8
[h=3][/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away
2 Corinthians 3
[h=3][/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, [SUP]8 [/SUP]how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? [SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
****************
the Old Covenant has been replaced. The law of Moses have been replaced by a better promise.
God requires MORE from His people.
You do not tithe 10 percent. you give 100 % of your life.
you do not worship just one day a week. You worship God every day. you meet with your brothers and sisters in Christ whenever you can and the world will hate you for it.
you do not murder, not because of the commandment do not murder, but because you follow the deeper commandment of forgiveness and NOT holding grudges and NOT being angry with your brother for no reason and NOT allowing the sun to set on your anger and NOT coming before the throne of God with any transgressions/ unforgiven act against another without first trying to recoil with them.
The new covenant is deeper and more meaningful because its not just external words written on stone but internal truths found in a heart shaped and molded by God's Holy Spirit.
and the Law of grace given by the shed blood of Jesus Christ which ushers people into the New covenant and blesses them with the Holy Spirit.
Satan loves to mix lies with truths to confuse those who do not pay enough attention to catch on to what God's Spirit revels in His written word.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Hebrews 8
[h=3][/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away
2 Corinthians 3
[h=3][/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, [SUP]8 [/SUP]how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? [SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
****************
the Old Covenant has been replaced. The law of Moses have been replaced by a better promise.
God requires MORE from His people.
You do not tithe 10 percent. you give 100 % of your life.
you do not worship just one day a week. You worship God every day. you meet with your brothers and sisters in Christ whenever you can and the world will hate you for it.
you do not murder, not because of the commandment do not murder, but because you follow the deeper commandment of forgiveness and NOT holding grudges and NOT being angry with your brother for no reason and NOT allowing the sun to set on your anger and NOT coming before the throne of God with any transgressions/ unforgiven act against another without first trying to recoil with them.
The new covenant is deeper and more meaningful because its not just external words written on stone but internal truths found in a heart shaped and molded by God's Holy Spirit.
K
Kerry
Guest
I know that, but show me which law and which commandments. I can agree with my voice because that's all He had. What Sabbath did he keep? when did offer a lamb on the brazen altar in front of the tabernacle? When did God tell Him thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet your neighbors wife. I haven't found it.
It is true that the OT covenant has been replaced, but the written code of law has not been replaced, abolished, as you assert. The law written on stones has been modified by making an addition to it after Jesus' ascension. Heb. 7:12 And it is only those who have the faith to obey what the addition requires who are granted the grace to escape from the punishment of eternal death.
...but verse 19 says: 'For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by which we draw night unto God.'
Chapter 11 makes it clear that faith (not law-keeping) is the operative principle for the justified.
If you make a ref. to a text make it clear what you are referencing. Book, chp. verse. You are making an egregious error by resorting to deliberately causing scripture to argue against scripture. I did not write "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 NIV You are alleging that this statement is totally untrue even though it is the statement of an apostle and allege to have a better way to be declared righteous by God.
Paul himself refers to 'the obedience of faith'; in other words, obedience is not a meritorious thing that we supposedly produce.
"For it is NOT! those who just hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who OBEY! the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 And you actually know more than he does I suppose?
It is the obedience of Christ, not us, when He was 'obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross' (Philippians 2) that brings the believing sinner salvation, not the supposed merits of our obedience to God's law.
So then it is your faulty judgement that Rom. 2:13 is a lie made by an apostle?
not stopping at that verse, but reading on . .
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded.
By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
(Romans 3:27-28)
Paul the Apostle wrote this, but we need to read his whole argument. Chapter 3 says 'all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God'. And so all need to be justified by faith in the Lord Jesus (Romans 5.1) in order to have peace with God.
It is clearly evident what Paul wrote, but it is also clearly evident that you do NOT! have a scintilla of faith in what he wrote!
Sir, this conversation is not going anywhere. Having quoted several Scriptures, I don't feel that we are interacting satisfactorily.
A
Ariel82
Guest
again i say the Bible speaks of two different laws:
the one Moses spoke of that leads to sin and death and condemnation
and the one Jesus taught: faith, grace and salvation.
Romans 2
[SUP]14 [/SUP]for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, [SUP]15 [/SUP]who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
Romans 3
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[SUP][h][/SUP] who believe. For there is no difference; [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [SUP]26 [/SUP]to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
No person has nor will be granted the grace to escape from serving the penalty of eternal death unless he has the faith to to trust and OBEY what has been written.
1. The law of God was changed by adding the word REPENT to it in regard to the sin of murdering of Jesus Christ.
2. It is only that word of law that is being referenced by the word law in Rom. 2:13.
3. It is only the word REPENT that has been put into effect as law through angels after the fact of the law having been changed by the Mediator to create the new covenant. Acts 7:53, Rom. 2:13, Rom. 5:20, Gal. 3:19, Heb. 7:12
4. It is the mandatory specific requirement by law that no individual will be granted any reprieve from sin's penalty unless he has the faith to comply to the obedience of what the added law unilaterally requires.
5. Rom. 3:27 identifies this law with the term "law of faith".
Your way of faith being in diametric opposition against the law of faith erroneously assumes that faith in the word faith is sufficient for salvation disregarding the fact that it is mandatory to actually have the faith of a gate's existence and have the faith to use the gate. Jesus Christ's murder was not in anyone's place and has only put a sin in place that MUST be resolved by the faith of obeying the law of faith which has been added.
1. The law of God was changed by adding the word REPENT to it in regard to the sin of murdering of Jesus Christ.
2. It is only that word of law that is being referenced by the word law in Rom. 2:13.
3. It is only the word REPENT that has been put into effect as law through angels after the fact of the law having been changed by the Mediator to create the new covenant. Acts 7:53, Rom. 2:13, Rom. 5:20, Gal. 3:19, Heb. 7:12
4. It is the mandatory specific requirement by law that no individual will be granted any reprieve from sin's penalty unless he has the faith to comply to the obedience of what the added law unilaterally requires.
5. Rom. 3:27 identifies this law with the term "law of faith".
Your way of faith being in diametric opposition against the law of faith erroneously assumes that faith in the word faith is sufficient for salvation disregarding the fact that it is mandatory to actually have the faith of a gate's existence and have the faith to use the gate. Jesus Christ's murder was not in anyone's place and has only put a sin in place that MUST be resolved by the faith of obeying the law of faith which has been added.
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
How does one that has read the Law of Moses come to the conclusion that it is a light burden. The burden of the Law was great and impossible for any man (other than Jesus) to fulfill. Jesus satisfied the Law because we could not.
Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Galatians 5:1-15
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? [SUP]8 [/SUP]This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. [SUP]9 [/SUP]A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
John 1:17
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:12-23
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
How does one that has read the Law of Moses come to the conclusion that it is a light burden. The burden of the Law was great and impossible for any man (other than Jesus) to fulfill. Jesus satisfied the Law because we could not.
Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Galatians 5:1-15
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? [SUP]8 [/SUP]This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. [SUP]9 [/SUP]A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
John 1:17
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:12-23
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.
Acts 13:39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Hebrews 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
The first covenant was made obsolete by making an addition to the law. Where as the sacrifice of any animal is unable to increase guilt the murder of Jesus Christ was. "The law was added so that the trespass (of the sin of his murder) was increased." Rom. 5:20