Why doesn’t Hebrews mention ….

[JohnDB]

Hypothetical question here....
If you somehow figured out the day and hour of God's "Return".....knew it with all certainty.

What difference would it make?
What would you do differently?

Do you somehow think that you are going to be able to say "Told you so" in Heaven and gain satisfaction from it?

What would the purpose of knowing definitively do for you?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, that is what the millenium is for. God won't build it, but man under the rule of Christ and his kingdom will build the world back probably to state magnitudes greater than our current state.

Right that’s why not on this earth .

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see Peter wasnt just now coming up with this it’s what’s in prophecy to israel in the ot ….just a link in a solid chain of apacolypse . Peter is hearkening back to the prophets

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5, 17, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And here

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again this is what he was telling israel long beforehand

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. ( remeber what it’s reserved for ) But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The thing is with “ the millennium “ happening on the new earth is that it happens before that.

 

[God-fearing]

Why doesn’t the letter written to the Hebrews mention the restoring of thier temple or land or thier riegn for a thousand years on earth ? but instead it explaines that tbier inheritance and promised land isn’t on this earth but in heaven ?

just a question to ponder . it seems as if the specific letter written to Hebrews would have been all about waiting for the Hope of thier earthly covenant restoration and the rebuilding of thier temple and gathering back to thier land or at least mentioned it in passing to those Hebrews …..rather than creating this idea that tbier kingdom inheritance isnt of this earth or the old covenant. If that was what’s going to

Why doesn’t the letter written to the Hebrews mention the restoring of thier temple or land or thier riegn for a thousand years on earth ? but instead it explaines that tbier inheritance and promised land isn’t on this earth but in heaven ?

just a question to ponder . it seems as if the specific letter written to Hebrews would have been all about waiting for the Hope of thier earthly covenant restoration and the rebuilding of thier temple and gathering back to thier land or at least mentioned it in passing to those Hebrews …..rather than creating this idea that tbier kingdom inheritance isnt of this earth or the old covenant. If that was what’s going to happen .

Why would Paul even know this? From what I remember this was disclosed in private conversation with his disciples. I don't remember if Jesus ever said it publicly
It hadn't happened yet.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“From what I remember this was disclosed in private conversation with his disciples. “

but where tho? Do you know of any New Testament scriptures promising it ?

i know for sure he told them it was going to be destroyed but I’m wondering where the promises for it’s earthly restoration and temple rebuilding in the New Testament is like so many claim

sincerely wondering if it’s there because i can’t find any apart from the new creation to come

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Right that’s why not on this earth .

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see Peter wasnt just now coming up with this it’s what’s in prophecy to israel in the ot ….just a link in a solid chain of apacolypse . Peter is hearkening back to the prophets

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5, 17, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And here

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again this is what he was telling israel long beforehand

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. ( remeber what it’s reserved for ) But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The thing is with “ the millennium “ happening on the new earth is that it happens before that.

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but I believe there will be a millenium and then afterward a new heaven and new earth when Christ yields the kingdom to God, the father, who descends from heaven to join us.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but I believe there will be a millenium and then afterward a new heaven and new earth when Christ yields the kingdom to God, the father, who descends from heaven to join us.

Yeah I’m confusing people today apologies

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The "Theif in the night" reference dovetails with the other reference of "one shall be taken and the other left behind"

Meaning....
There is ONLY ONE method of protection. Only one way to prepare. There is zero gaming the system. (People love doing that)
No different from going back into history knowing winning lottery numbers and purchasing those.

Thief in the night langiage they all use comes from a parable Jesus told them about his coming at the end of the world and a lesson to keep prepared and be ready because like a thief comes when you don’t expect he will come also the same way

“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and lukes account

“And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:38-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The epistles then add details of his return and what will happen they describe it as coming as a “thief in the night “

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

…. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and Jesus here also still using the same language about his coming.

“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭16:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re even left with this state of anticipation about it

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[God-fearing]

“From what I remember this was disclosed in private conversation with his disciples. “

but where tho? Do you know of any New Testament scriptures promising it ?

i know for sure he told them it was going to be destroyed but I’m wondering where the promises for it’s earthly restoration and temple rebuilding in the New Testament is like so many claim

sincerely wondering if it’s there because i can’t find any apart from the new creation to come

Get back with my findings. I have a good idea but need to verify.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Get back with my findings. I have a good idea but need to verify.

Thanks its appreciated

 

[God-fearing]

Get back with my findings. I have a good idea but need to verify.

I almost forgot getting old....Jesus talks of the third temple....the abomination of desolation he knew the 2nd was to be destroyed right
There was no abomination but a fire and the Christians got the blame.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

While the 2nd temple was still standing, Jesus said it had already become obsolete. So a 3rd temple would be pointless and the work of ungodly unbelievers.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. John 4:21​

​

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:23​

 

[God-fearing]

While the 2nd temple was still standing, Jesus said it had already become obsolete. So a 3rd temple would be pointless and the work of ungodly unbelievers.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. John 4:21​

​

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:23​

Jesus siad that his house is a house of prayer they made it a den of thieves.
Afterwards Jesus referred to the same as their house and told them it would be desolate.

 

[Gideon300]

Thanks for the input bro

What I was wondering Is shouldn’t that be in the New Testament teachings in the epistles or gospel if it literal?

for instance how does this leave room for a thousand year reign on this earth when Jesus returns ?

“that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:2-4, 7, 9-10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

wheres the part where there’s a thousand years after Jesus retirns before it’s destroyed ? Or here which aligns with Peter

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or even when Jesus is explaining things in the gospel

“Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:9-14‬ ‭

“Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:12-13, 24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

which aligns with Paul of course

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point is not only Hebrews never mentions it no New Testament prophecies say it . And wouldn’t something that important to the people that were with him in the Bible Hebrews , be a main well onow and consistent part of the doctrine they all taught . Especially the letter specifically written to Hebrews?


sort of my point was th at the only thing in the Bible that suggests a millenisl repgn on this earth is revelation the part you mentioned but it’s not found in th e doctrine and infact the doctrine about Jesus return from heaven doesn’t allow for it to happen because the earth is destroyed with fire when he returns and is reserved for the punishment of the ungodly according to Peter there above

the doctirne doesn’t really seem to even speak of it . Things in scripture should conform and be well stated in the actual doctrine like the rest of revelation is

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭

i honestly don’t see the doctrine allowing for it which was why I was wondering if I was missing something in Hebrews because Hebrews isn’t promising a reign on this earth at all but is promising the kingdom of God the heavenly promised land

The way I see it is that the writer to the Hebrews was encouraging Jewish believers to stay on track. It seems to me that some were wavering, likely because of the persecution from those they once considered brethren. One much misused scripture refers to there being no more sacrifice for sins. The writer, I believe, was saying that the animal sacrifices being carried out in the temple were no longer sufficient. Hebrews 12 is an exhortation to stay the course, in spite of difficulties. It's also encouragement that God's discipline is for good, not to harm us.

The millennium in Revelation is spoken of in Revelation 20. It is clear that it has yet to come to pass. The final war will be at the end of the millennium when Satan is released from the bottomless pit.

It seems clear to me that nuclear war will come. I'll not go into this here as it is a vast subject. Exactly when this will come to pass, I do not know. But it's only been possible since 1945.

 

[Gideon300]

While the 2nd temple was still standing, Jesus said it had already become obsolete. So a 3rd temple would be pointless and the work of ungodly unbelievers.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. John 4:21​

​

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:23​

Read the book of Revelation, chapter 11. It's as clear as day. It was written after the destruction of the temple, AD 95. Just because you do not understand something does not mean that it is false.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The way I see it is that the writer to the Hebrews was encouraging Jewish believers to stay on track. It seems to me that some were wavering, likely because of the persecution from those they once considered brethren. One much misused scripture refers to there being no more sacrifice for sins. The writer, I believe, was saying that the animal sacrifices being carried out in the temple were no longer sufficient. Hebrews 12 is an exhortation to stay the course, in spite of difficulties. It's also encouragement that God's discipline is for good, not to harm us.

The millennium in Revelation is spoken of in Revelation 20. It is clear that it has yet to come to pass. The final war will be at the end of the millennium when Satan is released from the bottomless pit.

It seems clear to me that nuclear war will come. I'll not go into this here as it is a vast subject. Exactly when this will come to pass, I do not know. But it's only been possible since 1945.

Thanks for the input it’s appreciated

“One much misused scripture refers to there being no more sacrifice for sins. The writer, I believe, was saying that the animal sacrifices being carried out in the temple were no longer sufficient. “

this one ?


“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. “
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27 ‭KJV‬‬

“Hebrews 12 is an exhortation to stay the course, in spite of difficulties. It's also encouragement that God's discipline is for good, not to harm us.”

amen bit also what do you make of this part of chapter 12 ? What is being communicated to the Hebrews

“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (for they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: and so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

(see exodus 19 ^^^)

but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. “
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or did you notice what this would have meant to the Hebrews ?

“If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed,

there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a lot about Jesus and his preisthood up to chapter 8 also there’s also a section about the temple but …. It doesn’t really support a rebuilt man made earthly one but instead kind of says that was just a copy and pattern of the true one in heaven .

“Now the summary of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by human beings.

If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.( levites ) They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”


But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:1-2, 4-6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

These kinds of things seem like they would have been eye opening to tell Hebrews awaiting a restoration of thier earthly land and temple And covenant .

“But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:11, 15, 24-25‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Hebrews I think might be the deepest book in the nt regarding the changing of the covenants from tabernacle to law to preisthood to promised land to
Mediator definately need to be familiar with the law and also the psalms and prophets to really benefit from Hebrews though gotts come from the he tee scriptures in the ot from. Moses and the prophets

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Read the book of Revelation, chapter 11. It's as clear as day. It was written after the destruction of the temple, AD 95. Just because you do not understand something does not mean that it is false.

Words that you see with your eyes convey knowledge to your mind, but they don't convey understanding. That comes from listening within and is a light that illuminates your whole being enabling you to see the truth behind written words. Knowledge without understanding is darkness. That is why Jesus cautioned to beware how you hear, because if you think you see because you have knowledge, but have no light to be able to spritually discern through understanding, then that darkness is very great. As long as you say you see when you really don't, then that blindness remains.

If you don't have the spiritual sense and discipline to constrain obscure and allegorical writings like Revelation to the light of plainly revealed truth, like Jesus' words that God has discarded the man-made temple as the place to worship him because he has made every believer's body a temple, then you will take words written about the temple of God at face value, rather than subjecting them to the inward witness of the spirit in order to see that he's actually talking about the spiritual temple made without hands, and consequently, you will go astray in your understanding.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Read the book of Revelation, chapter 11. It's as clear as day. It was written after the destruction of the temple, AD 95. Just because you do not understand something does not mean that it is false.

At this point in history, a man-made temple in Jerusalem will be the work of evil, ungodly men, not God.

 

[SilverFox7]

always a good read and to hear from you . And amen people have different ideas I’m just stating mine .

“The Jerusalem that is above mentioned in Hebrews is that place Jesus is preparing for us. It will come down from heaven and be established on earth forever.”


Yes bro to the new earth after th ie one ends . Bit did you notice ehatnjesus told his Hebrew followers before he went to heaven ?

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬

see how he’s saying I’m going elsewhere tomorrow te a place for you , and I’ll come back and gether you so you can be where I am ?

I agree with this that you said

“It will come down from heaven and be established on earth forever.”


But not down to this current earth

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. … But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

( after this happens then Jerusalem will be restored on a new earth )


Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See what I’m saying Jerusalems still in heaven at this point until this earth passes away and the new one comes forth then yes amen israel will be restored on a new earth with everyone else where god walks among us himself where there’s no more death or sorrow where all things are new even heaven and earth


So understanding Jerusalem was still in heaven because it comes down from heaven after this world ends to a new earth can you see my position that they aren’t reigning with Christ on this earth but in heaven until the earth ends and new creation he’s promised for many many ages to israel comes ?

He began telling them about this way back here

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Awee tboer restoration was always about the new heavens and earth after this happens like Peter was saying and like the prophets told israel

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

…Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5,

But we have his promise of a new creation and why should we doubt he created this earth and he’s promised to make a new and better one where israel will be restored to its glory and then some as gods eternal plans will be fulfilled

I’m not saying israel isn’t going to be restored but I’m saying that’s going to happen according to gods plan for a new earth later right now those who were raised are in heavens kingdom with him waiting for the restoration to come

These are all great verses and thoughts you are sharing my friend. I do think there is going to be a physical restoration of Israel and this world as a whole after Christ's return. We have made a mess of this world by rejecting God and trying to do it our way, and I see the millennium as a return to the Garden in a sense. Only this time, Satan and the forces of evil are out of the picture.

Am I cool with transitioning straight to heaven upon Christ's return. Absolutely! But, I think my time in the clouds will be limited to enjoying that marriage supper of the Lamb and then rolling up the sleeves to clean up the mess we've made. I want to be one of those priestly voices encouraging people that “…This is the way, walk in it…” (Isa 30:21) and build a successful human society as God intended under Christ’s leadership.

Check out what else Isaiah has to say:

Isaiah 2:1-4

New King James Version

The Future House of God

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.

3Many people shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning [a]hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.

I don’t think this is going to happen in heaven. I think it’s going to happen right here on this earth, or what’s left of it after our feeble attempts to govern ourselves. What would be the point of beating swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks in heaven? Are we going to be planting gardens and fields there?

When in human history has this prophecy seen fulfillment? It’s been one war after another, and we are exponentially more destructive now than we have ever been. World War III is already in progress, and none of us want to see the ultimate power we have to destroy ourselves with nuclear weapons happen if we can’t keep our lusts in check.

Don’t get me wrong and think I’m discrediting your views – I think they’re fantastic overall. I’m just showing from scripture that the case for the 1000 year reign of Christ prior to the New Heavens and New Earth is a valid proposition.

It will prove that God was right from the beginning. We as humans can live in harmony with our God, with people from all walks of life, and this beautiful gem of a planet He gave us. We have had ~6000 years, and the record is failure on the whole. 1000 years under Christ and what that will yield will set the historic case straight.
.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

These are all great verses and thoughts you are sharing my friend. I do think there is going to be a physical restoration of Israel and this world as a whole after Christ's return. We have made a mess of this world by rejecting God and trying to do it our way, and I see the millennium as a return to the Garden in a sense. Only this time, Satan and the forces of evil are out of the picture.

Am I cool with transitioning straight to heaven upon Christ's return. Absolutely! But, I think my time in the clouds will be limited to enjoying that marriage supper of the Lamb and then rolling up the sleeves to clean up the mess we've made. I want to be one of those priestly voices encouraging people that “…This is the way, walk in it…” (Isa 30:21) and build a successful human society as God intended under Christ’s leadership.

Check out what else Isaiah has to say:

Isaiah 2:1-4

New King James Version

The Future House of God

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.

3Many people shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning [a]hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.

I don’t think this is going to happen in heaven. I think it’s going to happen right here on this earth, or what’s left of it after our feeble attempts to govern ourselves. What would be the point of beating swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks in heaven? Are we going to be planting gardens and fields there?

When in human history has this prophecy seen fulfillment? It’s been one war after another, and we are exponentially more destructive now than we have ever been. World War III is already in progress, and none of us want to see the ultimate power we have to destroy ourselves with nuclear weapons happen if we can’t keep our lusts in check.

Don’t get me wrong and think I’m discrediting your views – I think they’re fantastic overall. I’m just showing from scripture that the case for the 1000 year reign of Christ prior to the New Heavens and New Earth is a valid proposition.

It will prove that God was right from the beginning. We as humans can live in harmony with our God, with people from all walks of life, and this beautiful gem of a planet He gave us. We have had ~6000 years, and the record is failure on the whole. 1000 years under Christ and what that will yield will set the historic case straight.
.

“Am I cool with transitioning straight to heaven upon Christ's return. Absolutely! But, I think my time in the clouds will be limited to enjoying that marriage supper of the Lamb and then rolling up the sleeves to clean up the mess we've made. “

not you and me brother Israel’s saints and the early church

what I was meaning is these ones from the old covenant are in heaven with him reigning already

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See he had promised them in thier covenant a resurrection when the messiah came . Just as he’s promised us in the New Testament a resurrection when he comes at the end of our covenant . That’s why they rose it’s the first resurrection of the saints and martyrs of the early church who didn’t cave to Romes persecutions the firstfruits

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ , the firstfruits; ( Jesus and the saints and martyrs )

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”( us afterwards who believes the gospel tbey preached )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The first resurrection os a promise to Israel’s faithful saints to happen when thier covenant was concluding

He had made this promise to them before jesus came

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a then he came and fulfilled it

and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and in the New Testament he’s made a promise to us for when he comes at the end of our covenant

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


the thousand years is the time between the first resurrection of Israel’s faithful saints fulfilling the ot promise and the last one which will fulfill the nt promise of a resurrection .

it’s not literal time period look at like the kings who rose and have power for one hour with the beast “ that also is. Ot literal timeframe it’s a short period of time represented by an hour . Thousand years represents a very extended time period where the saints are reigning in heavens kingdom

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They are reigning with him in heavens kingdom and when he returns he’s going to raise all the dead of the new testement by his nt promise of resirrection . Each time Jesus comes to earth there’s a resirrection to fulfill the promise in the covenant . He came once to fulfill the law and prophets will come again to fulfill the gospel

should be looked at through this idea

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

not you and me brother Israel’s saints and the early church

This introduces like a schizophrenia or something. Either gentile believers will be in heaven without Christ, or Israel will be on the earth without Christ. Doesn't sound like one flock, one shepherd. Or will Christ be doing some kind of shuttle diplomacy to keep everyone happy?